Grand Wagoneer Cummins 4BT swap

[jeepjseries]

Hopefully this isn't two personal but about how much will this set you back? Also are you keeping the same transmission? Great thread by the way can't wait for more videos.

[olllllo]

Hopefully this isn't two personal but about how much will this set you back? Also are you keeping the same transmission? Great thread by the way can't wait for more videos.

You didn't actually read this thread, did you?

I better talk to Aaron before publicizing his labor rates, but I will tell you that my gross cost is coming in just a hair under $7K as things stand right now.

Since that post however, I did talk to him about this and he was just fine with me publicizing that I am paying $3K for labor, with the clarification that all swaps are different and his rate may be different for other swaps.

As he and I worked out the initial details of the swap beforehand, we ultimately decided to try to keep some of the stock equipment in tact, keeping the stock NP229 transfer case right where it is and building forward. The Grand Wagoneer comes with a TF727 3 speed auto. Unfortunately, getting that to bolt to the 4BT was going to be an effort that wouldn't be worth the cost. After doing a little research, I found that some Dodge trucks came with a Dodge version of the TF727 as well, and specifically a diesel version with proper shift points in some of the old D300 trucks. If we take the front half of it, it will bolt up just right to the 4BT with a Dodge adapter, and by swapping out the tailshaft with the AMC TF727 I can still bolt directly to the 229. Cool huh?

[msh227]

His original goal was 6 weeks from start to finish.

Very nice, even if it runs 8 weeks thats not bad at all! Back to in no time!

[3rdelement]

and once he's all done with yours he will have an exact parts list. and then there will be a trail of FSJ's heading down to him (like the last scene in field of dreams) dim headlights for as far as the eye can see.


nice project. i look forward to seeing it going.

[olllllo]

Now that Aaron has the engine completely out, he wanted to take it back to the car wash one last time to really clean it out. He sent me these in an email this morning after returning.




I never even knew it was supposed to look like this:

from this:

to this:


from this:

to this:


from this:

to this:




I can't wait to see a shiny new engine in here:

[temps425]

Hey, did your mechanic use a heated pressure washer to clean the vehicle?

[olllllo]

Nope, he used the local carwash. Considering our high today was 33*, I doubt it was very heated!

[olllllo]

Aaron posted a new video tonight of him pulling the motor. It's very cool, done in time lapse with the entire job done in 3 minutes and 11 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/user/aaronreevesgarage#p/a/u/1/vqvIfJEWs-o

I can't overstate how fortunate I feel to have permanent documentation of this swap like I am getting.

[sublime88GW]

it looks awesome so far, I would love to eventually have a WT cherokee with a cummins diesel

[jMedia]

Just curious, why keep the 727? Not criticizing, just wondering.
Beautiful swap so far

[jeepjseries]

I read the 7k part was just curious if you had a better estimate and you did thanks for telling. Missed the 727 from a donor truck part though, must have been side tracked by pictures and videos happens a lot. Great thread though by the way that wag is going to be one awesome rig.

[olllllo]

Just curious, why keep the 727? Not criticizing, just wondering.
Beautiful swap so far

A few reasons came into that discussion. First, while the 727/229 are not the components I would choose to put together for a dream rig built from scratch, they have proved themselves to be very reliable in my eyes for the way I use my wagoneer, both on and off road. Additionally, even though I am doing something that is a relatively dramatic modification, I like the idea that I am keeping it somewhat stock in most areas and keeping some of its original design. Also, by keeping the stock t-case and Dodge/AMC hybrid 727 where it is and building forward, I can eliminate some costs that, while not terribly expensive individually, could add up to significant cost. I won't have to rebuild driveshafts. I won't need to source some adapter from tranny to t-case. By using a Dodge bell housing, I am again removing the cost for expensive adapters to go from the 4BT.

While I feel like I am eliminating some cost, I also don't feel that I am shortcutting the project, but hopefully instead shooting for a happy medium. If cost was truly no factor at all, I might actually go with an NV4500 and some gear driven t-case, but I feel like this is a pretty reasonable plan, and if I end up unhappy with it, I can always try something else down the road.

Time will tell, I suppose!

[tndonor]

The 727 is very similar to the 47rh, 47re used in the cummins. Very stout transmission, just no overdrive. I think its a fine choice for what it is. If it is built, you could just add an NP205 and be good if overdrive isnt a killer.

Nice build!

[Fiodh. Argus]

very nice, I hope it all works out well for you. I know I'd happily pay that amount to have a 4bt Cherokee, sounds like a fair deal to me. Your friend Aaron could have an ongoing business just from this site if he chose to specialize... his website looks excellent.

great project, keep us posted!

[olllllo]

Last night after bringing the clean rig home, Aaron started getting into the new engine. After taking off the exhaust manifold, he found that one of the cylinders was wet with diesel. For a visual, the normal ones looked like this: http://bit.ly/g6PV15 and one of them looked like this: http://bit.ly/gCeAr9 As he explained it to me, this could be one of a couple of things: 1) A bad cylinder or 2) a faulty injector that was overspraying. Aaron called the guy in Tulsa that we bought the engine from, and he reassured Aaron that the engine sounded awesome when he pulled it, which *should* rule out #1. However, he decided it would be a good idea to remove the head to give a visual inspection and make sure there were no surprises. This added a slight additional cost of a gasket kit into the picture, but it is a small price to pay for piece of mind and new gaskets are never a bad thing!





He said that the cylinders looked like they are in great shape and there was no sign of wear. As for the injector, Aaron recommended that we don't purchase one yet. He wants to get the engine in and run it before determining if that is really necessary.

With that piece of business handled, he shifted focus to the tranny. He removed the AMC 727 from the 360.



And loaded them both up on the trailer to take to a shop there in town that he has a relationship with.



He ran the job past them of mating the Dodge and AMC 727s, and indicated that it will be no big deal, charging $100 labor, and whatever cost in filters, gaskets, etc. As it turns out, it is more than just a matter of unbolting the tailshaft and swapping it out, and is actually going to require them to take it apart. While they have it apart, they are going to check clutches and other parts to make sure that everything is in good working order and put it together.

So, between these two jobs, I think we are going to be in good shape and will be able to progress forward with pretty decent confidence in the parts involved.

More soon...