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  #1  
Old 01-05-2012, 06:37 PM
Blake Blake is offline
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Join Date: Dec 22, 2005
Location: longmont, colorado
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'cause I'm very well prepared and a little paranoid, quick question

I was planning to go with a junkyard TBI, but I found a Howell instead.

I do A LOT of back country 'wheeling, frequently alone. As a result of this, I carry A LOT of spare parts. Pretty much everything that can be fixed on the trail, I carry.

That being said, I MUST and I mean MUST have all FI parts required to make my Howell TBI run in the event of a meltdown. So that means that I must have two complete FI systems, including the computer. I know that computers almost never die, but I MUST have a spare. (I spent mega $$$ on a spare ECM and other electrical spares for my LX450, even though it's Toyota and won't fail)

So my question is:

Is it possible to convert a junk yard 7747 computer to run a Howell TBI? If not, then I will sell my Howell and continue down the path of a DIY setup.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:50 PM
FSJ Guy FSJ Guy is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 20, 2005
Location: Colorado
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The easiest way is to modify the board inside the ECM to accept an EEPROM and you're set. I can burn an EEPROM for you. It'll cost you all of $5 for the chip.

You're not paranoid. You're prepared. I was going through my parts box in the back of the Jeep today and I have a spare ignition module, SEVERAL IAC's (why? I have no idea) and an entire PCM, too.
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  #3  
Old 01-05-2012, 07:10 PM
Blake Blake is offline
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Join Date: Dec 22, 2005
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Cool.

I have a lot of reading left to do. It seems that Bill has good info on the Binder board, but for the life of me, I can't find it. Maybe I have to register on there to see the FI forums?

I'm running an Edelbrock 4 barrel intake on my 360 and will need to get the adapter to bolt the TBI to it (anyone have a PN # for that). Also need a fuel pump (two of 'em) and figure out the spark control. I think I saw where Ethan has a thread on here on how to put spark on a Howell.

Yep, lots of reading still left to do....
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  #4  
Old 01-05-2012, 07:51 PM
FSJ Guy FSJ Guy is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 20, 2005
Location: Colorado
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The Binder Planet FI FAQ's should be available without logging in.

My sig link has some additional TBI info, too.

I can't help you with the fuel pump. I cheated and swapped in a TBI fuel tank/pump from a 2dr S10 Blazer.
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  #5  
Old 01-06-2012, 07:43 AM
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Billygoat Billygoat is offline
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Join Date: Mar 16, 2004
Location: Southwest Wisconsin
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I have 1 Howell system and 1 DIY and I will tell you the best pump is the one directly from howell
http://howellefi.com/gm-tbi-products...cessories.html

I went thru 4 on my DIY before I got one I mostly like, it is only $25 less than the Howell, a little louder (the Howell I have is almost whisper quiet, sounds like hummingbird) and a little less flow I think.

Howell has the 4bbl addapter, but so does Summit, Jegs and probably several others - just a standard 4bbl sqr to chevy TBI
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRD-2210/
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  #6  
Old 01-06-2012, 07:54 AM
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Billygoat Billygoat is offline
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Location: Southwest Wisconsin
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And on the ECM, if you are running an unmolested Howell, it is the base 7747 ECM - unless they changed in the last few years, so you can just pop the howell chip into a junkyard box and be ready to fly

Of course you want to go spark control, so then you have to do the 28pin socket conversion on both the howell and junkyard ecm's.
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  #7  
Old 01-06-2012, 10:13 AM
FSJ Guy FSJ Guy is offline
 
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Location: Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billygoat
And on the ECM, if you are running an unmolested Howell, it is the base 7747 ECM - unless they changed in the last few years, so you can just pop the howell chip into a junkyard box and be ready to fly

Of course you want to go spark control, so then you have to do the 28pin socket conversion on both the howell and junkyard ecm's.

Good point. Forgot that since I'm so used to using the EEPROMs!
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  #8  
Old 01-06-2012, 10:30 AM
Blake Blake is offline
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Join Date: Dec 22, 2005
Location: longmont, colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billygoat
I have 1 Howell system and 1 DIY and I will tell you the best pump is the one directly from howell
http://howellefi.com/gm-tbi-products...cessories.html

I went thru 4 on my DIY before I got one I mostly like, it is only $25 less than the Howell, a little louder (the Howell I have is almost whisper quiet, sounds like hummingbird) and a little less flow I think.

Howell has the 4bbl addapter, but so does Summit, Jegs and probably several others - just a standard 4bbl sqr to chevy TBI
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRD-2210/

The donor waggy had the pump inside the tank. I was thinking about seeing if there is a good external, frame rail mounted fuel pump that I can grab from a yard.

With regards to the 4bbl adapter, I saw those online for ~$50. But then I found a pic of a stock chevy 4bbl to tbi adapter, so I'm gonna see if I can get that from a yard too.

28pin mod? Wow - lots of reading left to do!
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  #9  
Old 01-06-2012, 11:47 AM
FSJ Guy FSJ Guy is offline
 
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Location: Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake
28pin mod? Wow - lots of reading left to do!

Don't get too excited. It's just a way to modify your ECM so you don't have to burn EPROMS which require a UV eraser. EEPROMS (note the extra "E"!!) are ELECTRONICALLY erasable so you can use something like the Burn2 or AutoProm from Moates.net to erase and re-write (burn) a chip in less than a minute or two.

The UV erasers took several minutes or more and are really 1970's era technology.
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  #10  
Old 01-07-2012, 12:13 AM
Bill USN-1 Bill USN-1 is offline
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You guys confuse even me.

The howell ECM is just a GM 7747.
There is no 28 pin mod needed to run fuel and timing control.
The mod to a 28pin chip is a nice to do change.

The only thing howell does to avoid timing control is they install a filter in the B5 wire that went to the ignition module to the ECM. The wire connects straight to the -neg side of the coil and the filter keeps it from burning up the ECM due to voltage spikes.

Blake, the information is not hidden on the binderplanet. Simply go to the injection forum and look for the sticky that says "Start Here".

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/f...splay.php?f=75
Or just see my sig.

But you may need to log on to see the pics.
It doesn't cost you anything to log in and at least you will have access to all the correct info you need.

Keep in mind that your howell system IS a diy junkyard GM system.
The only difference is if you keep the filter for fuel only.

There is also a parts required list with part numbers.
I feel the Masters pumps to be some of the best I have used and cheaper then those sold by the big companies. Use ebay or amazon. See the FAQ's for the differnt models avail.
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  #11  
Old 01-08-2012, 09:02 AM
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Billygoat Billygoat is offline
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Bill - yes the Howell system will run timing control without the 28 pin mod, however, does not the UV eraser and chip programmer make it almost a requirement to 20 the 28 pin mod? (sure that stuff is around, but a EEPROM is so much nicer!)
I doubt any Howell units came with a correct spark map for a 360
(Except mine since I had them add timing control for me)
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  #12  
Old 01-08-2012, 10:25 AM
chrism chrism is offline
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You can put a 27sf512 into the stock socket with some slight mods to the chip and socket. There is a how to on the binder site.
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  #13  
Old 01-08-2012, 10:44 AM
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jaber jaber is offline
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For fuel pumps, I use the E-2000 pump and have been pleased with them. they mount to the frame and are easy to plumb.

And yes, I just did Howel systems onto 2 CJ7s and both ECMs still had the 7747 sticker on them.
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  #14  
Old 01-08-2012, 03:27 PM
Blake Blake is offline
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Join Date: Dec 22, 2005
Location: longmont, colorado
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Well I got the Howell TBI installed and running last night. Wow - it actually starts right up when cold! I think it runs pretty good as it is without timing control.

We took it up 'wheeling immediately after getting it installed (what better way to verify it's working?). It burned just over half a tank of gas and ran perfect.

Now onto getting a junkyard 7747 and making a redundant system!
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  #15  
Old 01-08-2012, 05:31 PM
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blazer3664 blazer3664 is offline
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Glad to hear its up and running.

Quote:
I do A LOT of back country 'wheeling, frequently alone. As a result of this, I carry A LOT of spare parts. Pretty much everything that can be fixed on the trail, I carry.

Dont let anybody give you grief over that Blake. Went through my carry parts list the other day, its BIG. Scary how much $$ is sitting back there in spare parts "just in case".

I am sure we are not alone in that respect either, at least as far as those that wheel regularly.

Jim
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  #16  
Old 01-08-2012, 06:10 PM
FSJ Guy FSJ Guy is offline
 
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Location: Colorado
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Sweet! Glad to hear you got it running and it works well.

Make sure you get a ECM from a V8 equipped truck. That way it will have the correct limp home chip in it. It's only used if the other chip somehow fails, but it's nice to have anyway.
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1987 Grand Wagoneer, slightly longer than stock.

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Don't mess with me. I once killed a living hinge.
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  #17  
Old 01-08-2012, 07:45 PM
Blake Blake is offline
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Join Date: Dec 22, 2005
Location: longmont, colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSJ Guy
Sweet! Glad to hear you got it running and it works well.

Make sure you get a ECM from a V8 equipped truck. That way it will have the correct limp home chip in it. It's only used if the other chip somehow fails, but it's nice to have anyway.

thanks man. even though you weren't able to make it down to help in person, you helped a bunch!
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