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  #1  
Old 10-30-2006, 06:11 PM
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BRUTUS BRUTUS is offline
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Square Front Driveshaft Question

So here is the background...

1410 yoke at the front differential input
2.00" x 1/4" wall square shaft
2.50" x 1/4" wall square shaft
1310 CV at the transfer case (it will be upgraded when I get the new transfer case... this is only temporary)

I got my 1410 weld yoke in the mail today and it has a round hollow weld-side.



It is meant for a 3" round tube to press fit and weld the seam.

I would prefer to take the weld yoke to my mill at work and mill out a space for the 2" shaft to fit completely inside the hollow weld-yoke, MORE than this:



The other option is to butt weld the yoke to the 2.5" shaft like so:



What do you guys think?

I think the advantages to welding to the smaller tube are:
  1. mechanical connection in conjunction with welded connection
  2. with the slip of the shaft pointed at the front axle, water/gunk is less likely to get into the joint
  3. it would be hard to get the yoke perfectly centered on the 2.5" tube
Are there any other considerations/ideas you guys have?
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  #2  
Old 10-30-2006, 07:19 PM
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jsinajeep jsinajeep is offline
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Do you think you can get that thing balanced enough to run on the road. If you want to do something like that then go to a farm parts store somewhere and get an yoke for the 2" square tube
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  #3  
Old 10-30-2006, 07:21 PM
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putting the yoke an the smaller square is cool. maybe you could turn the square tube down a few thou. and it would slip in leaving the yoke at full stength then weld the dude up. only a thought.
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  #4  
Old 10-30-2006, 08:48 PM
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I'm with NVJEEPER mill down the small square tubing just enough to slide in and but. and not to get off the thread to far but has anyone used a tractor attachment drive shaft. They have a huge amount of slide like the square shafts and the joints can go to high angels. Are there crossover u-joints to like attach a 1410 yoke to a tractor shaft yoke? Just a thought
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  #5  
Old 10-30-2006, 08:54 PM
FSJ Guy FSJ Guy is offline
 
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Machine down the smaller tube. I know you have access to a machine like that somwhere. <g>
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  #6  
Old 10-30-2006, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsinajeep
Do you think you can get that thing balanced enough to run on the road. If you want to do something like that then go to a farm parts store somewhere and get an yoke for the 2" square tube

I don't need it to balance because I have a D20. So the shaft will only turn when I am offroad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvjeeper
putting the yoke an the smaller square is cool. maybe you could turn the square tube down a few thou. and it would slip in leaving the yoke at full stength then weld the dude up. only a thought.

I can put the smaller shaft on the lathe and turn it down.. but then I lose the mechanical connection that I would have if I hog out a square hole... it is just a tube within a tube again. If the welds were ever to break.. it would just spin inside. The other part is that if you look at the first picture the weld yoke has a tapered inside, so I would have to match the taper when I mill the small tube. For a machinist.. that would be pretty easy... I haven't touched a lathe in 5 years

I don't think it will take much of the strength out of the weld yoke because the tube already starts to slip inside, maybe 0.050" before it stops. So the outer thickness ~3/16" (or 1/4") would still be intact around the whole joint.

Thanks for your suggestions guys.
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Last edited by BRUTUS : 10-30-2006 at 11:28 PM.
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  #7  
Old 10-30-2006, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSJ Guy
Machine down the smaller tube. I know you have access to a machine like that somwhere. <g>

yeah, it's called an angle grinder, lol.
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  #8  
Old 10-30-2006, 11:30 PM
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seriously though, i'd just mill the yoke and weld the living snot out of it. It's the weld that'll be important. If it comes apart it'll probably destroy the yoke no matter how you put it together.
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  #9  
Old 10-30-2006, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSJ Guy
Machine down the smaller tube. I know you have access to a machine like that somwhere. <g>

You didn't notice the lathe in the background?
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  #10  
Old 10-31-2006, 12:36 AM
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for my shafts im machining the weld yoke for the smaller tube. all 4 of them. then for the side w/ the 2.5" im gonna use about 4" of the smaller tube and weld it to the 2.5" w/ some plug welds also. makes it so you only have to machine the weld yokes for one size.
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  #11  
Old 10-31-2006, 06:00 AM
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I know taking it to a driveline shop would be taking the easy way out, but give it some thought. I'm pretty sure you'll have the only square driveshaft in the world; ever wonder why all the others are round? I don't want to sound like a total pessimist, nor am I trying to bash your abilities as a fabricator, but I doubt you will ultimately be happy with this setup.
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  #12  
Old 10-31-2006, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herk
I know taking it to a driveline shop would be taking the easy way out, but give it some thought. I'm pretty sure you'll have the only square driveshaft in the world; ever wonder why all the others are round? I don't want to sound like a total pessimist, nor am I trying to bash your abilities as a fabricator, but I doubt you will ultimately be happy with this setup.

I'm 100% sure you're wrong.
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=square+driveshaft
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  #13  
Old 10-31-2006, 06:56 AM
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BRUTUS, you rebel!


actually,
square shafts are pretty common on trail rigs these days.

peace
Dave
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  #14  
Old 10-31-2006, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Beast
for my shafts im machining the weld yoke for the smaller tube. all 4 of them. then for the side w/ the 2.5" im gonna use about 4" of the smaller tube and weld it to the 2.5" w/ some plug welds also. makes it so you only have to machine the weld yokes for one size.

You are machining it like I mentioned above... square hole?

I haven't taken the old CV off the front driveshaft yet but the surface area for welding looks much larger on the CV. I guess I will cross that bridge when I get there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herk
I know taking it to a driveline shop would be taking the easy way out, but give it some thought. I'm pretty sure you'll have the only square driveshaft in the world; ever wonder why all the others are round? I don't want to sound like a total pessimist, nor am I trying to bash your abilities as a fabricator, but I doubt you will ultimately be happy with this setup.

One thing I have learned to avoid on boards like this are words like "only" because there is always someone on here that can find a site to disprove your argument. My advice is if you REALLY REALLY want to use a word like "only", do a bunch of searching beforehand. Odds are that it will still get disproven but at least you have tried.
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"Brutus" '74 J10 360/T18/D20/Front D60 Pro Rock & ARB/2" shave, ARB, 15 bolt FF Rear/ 4.56 Gears/38.5 x 16 TSL
Current Jeep Status:Under The Knife
Current Homepage Status: RUNNING

Last edited by BRUTUS : 10-31-2006 at 08:12 AM.
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  #15  
Old 10-31-2006, 09:18 AM
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Desert Beast Desert Beast is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herk
I'm pretty sure you'll have the only square driveshaft in the world; ever wonder why all the others are round?

hahahahaha

i bet hes the only person in the world to put a dana 60 in the front of his jeep also. man, what a rebel.

jesus

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUTUS
You are machining it like I mentioned above... square hole?


yup. it helps to have a friend that programs cnc machines for a living.
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  #16  
Old 10-31-2006, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockjeep44


i 100% agree with you andrew

my square shaft is buttwelded against the smaller tuber (1310 yoke) and it works great. i have lost the tcase end (double cardan) once on the trail because i was highly stuck and all the torque tore the weld lose (excuse my ability to weld) and produced much carnage.

either way you do it just weld the hell out of it, but id personally go with grinding down the smaller tube and welding it to that.
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Last edited by 4x4fEvEr : 10-31-2006 at 10:38 AM.
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  #17  
Old 10-31-2006, 10:41 AM
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now i see what you would mill...just some of the taper. Kewl!
lookin forward to the update!!!
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  #18  
Old 10-31-2006, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4fEvEr
i 100% agree with you andrew

my square shaft is buttwelded against the smaller tuber (1310 yoke) and it works great. i have lost the tcase end (double cardan) once on the trail because i was highly stuck and all the torque tore the weld lose (excuse my ability to weld) and produced much carnage.

either way you do it just weld the hell out of it, but id personally go with grinding down the smaller tube and welding it to that.

Wow was that a weld let go or the small tube spun in the bigone?
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  #19  
Old 10-31-2006, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVJEEPER
Wow was that a weld let go or the small tube spun in the bigone?

Looks like the small tube spun the big one and ripped 3/4 of the weld off before seperating completely.
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  #20  
Old 10-31-2006, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herk
I know taking it to a driveline shop would be taking the easy way out, but give it some thought. I'm pretty sure you'll have the only square driveshaft in the world; ever wonder why all the others are round? I don't want to sound like a total pessimist, nor am I trying to bash your abilities as a fabricator, but I doubt you will ultimately be happy with this setup.

Never underestimate "redneck engineering".
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