International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tech Archives > Drivetrain

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-11-2006, 11:07 AM
KaiserMan's Avatar
KaiserMan KaiserMan is offline
I got the Willys....
 
Join Date: Jun 21, 2005
Location: Huntington, Ma.
Posts: 8,654
Closed knuckle inner and outer oil seal replacement-write up

One of the easiest (and cheapest) routine maintenance procedure that is often neglected is the replacement of the inner oil seal, and the outer felt seal.

After 30+ years of service, the factory seals in your axle are junk. The felt seals on my axle where virtually non-existent, and the inner oil seals had large chunks missing from them.


As you can see, the felt seal isn't in very good shape. The inner seal is just as bad.

I bought my two kits (one kit does one side) off e-bay for a total of $26 including shipping. Each kit includes one inner oil seal, one felt wipe, and two retaining ring halves. Note, the retaining ring halves do not come painted. I painted mine prior to taking the following picture.


Contents of one kit.

First, you must first remove the old seals.
To start, remove the 8 bolts that hold the two retaining ring halves to the knuckle. These take a ½” wrench. Once the retaining ring halves have been removed, pull/scrape the old felt seals off the knuckle (you may or may not ahve to make a cut inthe felt seal to remove it over the axle tube). Then pry the old inner oil seal (wear gloves for this part-trust me on this) from the grove it sets into. You must bend the oil seal in order to slip it off of the axle tube. Clean the area in which the seal and felt sit against. Your knuckle will leak once the inner oil seal is removed, so have a coffee can ready.


The old seals, and retaining ring halves

In order to get the new seals over the axle tube, you must make a horizontal cut on both seals. For the felt seal, make this cut on one of the flat sides. For the inner oil seal, you must make the cut through the rubber visible at the gap in the bonded metal ring. You must install the seals so the cuts are in the 12 o'clock position, or your knuckles will leak.


Make your cut on one of the flat sides like this


Make your cut through the rubber at this gap in the metal ring

Bend the inner seal just enough to slip it over the axle tube. I found it easier to seat the bottom first. Once the seal is seated, it will want to pop out at the top (at the cut), don’t worry about this, the retaining rings will push and hold it into place. The metal ring is the inners side of the seal, and goes against the knuckle.


The new seal ready to be put in place.

Then slide the felt seal over the tube and place the rings over it. Position the rings so the split runs horizontally. Replace the 8 bolts and hand tighten them. Do the other side and you are done. This took me about 20 minutes.


The new seals and rings bolted in place
__________________
Thomas Russell
1983 Wagoneer Limited 360/727/NP229 Sunroof
1971 Gladiator
J2000 Platform-Stake Dump 350/T18

1970 Gladiator J3000 3407Z Camper Truck 350/T18
1968 Gladiator J3000 3406Z 160" wheel base DRW 350/T18
1963 Gladiator J300 Townside 350/TH400

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-11-2006, 12:07 PM
Gambler68's Avatar
Gambler68 Gambler68 is offline
Rabble Rouser
 
Join Date: Feb 29, 2004
Location: Ignacio, Colorado, USA
Posts: 14,082
Nice, I need to do that on my 68. Good writeup.
__________________
1979 Chero S "Sundog" 1979 Chero S "Hammer"
1968 327 J3000 1978 J10SWB
The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.
Hunter S. Thompson .

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-11-2006, 12:11 PM
H Callaway's Avatar
H Callaway H Callaway is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Aug 13, 2005
Location: Richmond & Natural Bridge VA
Posts: 1,048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambler68
Nice, I need to do that on my 68. Good writeup.

I agree, many thanks for the write up. I am getting ready to do this and it is great to see your shots an descriptions.
__________________
900 plus pictures not in any order taken during restoration. (Plus a couple of assorted pictures that down loaded.)
http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j289/hcallaway/
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-11-2006, 06:27 PM
grimgaunt grimgaunt is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Aug 06, 2002
Location: close enuff to Denver, but far enuff from the people
Posts: 935
what am I looking for on EBAY ? Are these generic parts or specific ?

thx

ps - It might be helpful if you could send a link to the auction (if its there - I believe completed auctions stick around for 30 days or so)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-11-2006, 07:14 PM
KaiserMan's Avatar
KaiserMan KaiserMan is offline
I got the Willys....
 
Join Date: Jun 21, 2005
Location: Huntington, Ma.
Posts: 8,654
Just type in "closed knuckle". They will come up. The seller sells them as one lot of two kits. They will fit any closed knuckle Jeep axle. I.E. Dana 25, Dana 27, Dana 30 and the Dana 44.
__________________
Thomas Russell
1983 Wagoneer Limited 360/727/NP229 Sunroof
1971 Gladiator
J2000 Platform-Stake Dump 350/T18

1970 Gladiator J3000 3407Z Camper Truck 350/T18
1968 Gladiator J3000 3406Z 160" wheel base DRW 350/T18
1963 Gladiator J300 Townside 350/TH400

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-11-2006, 07:43 PM
oldsixinarow oldsixinarow is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 27, 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 73
I agree...nice write-up Thom. Now I have to do it on my truck...the driver's side is leaking a bit. Unless, of course, you just want to take a ride down and do it for me
__________________
Roy
1972 J2000 Thriftside
Gathering Parts for a 4.0/AX15 swap
1997 ZJ Laredo 4.0 DD
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-11-2006, 07:53 PM
KaiserMan's Avatar
KaiserMan KaiserMan is offline
I got the Willys....
 
Join Date: Jun 21, 2005
Location: Huntington, Ma.
Posts: 8,654
Don't temp me! I do want to see your truck in person. And there isn't a much better way to spend time then wrenching on a FSJ!

BTW, did you see my axle swap thread? They are finally in!
__________________
Thomas Russell
1983 Wagoneer Limited 360/727/NP229 Sunroof
1971 Gladiator
J2000 Platform-Stake Dump 350/T18

1970 Gladiator J3000 3407Z Camper Truck 350/T18
1968 Gladiator J3000 3406Z 160" wheel base DRW 350/T18
1963 Gladiator J300 Townside 350/TH400

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-11-2006, 08:48 PM
J20 Good Humor J20 Good Humor is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 02, 2004
Location: NW Washington
Posts: 214
Thanks for the nice pictures and a great write up.
This will go in my file.
__________________
Ron on Whidbey
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-12-2006, 08:48 AM
oldsixinarow oldsixinarow is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 27, 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 73
OK, so I searched for these seals and the only kit that comes up has parts that look similar, but are different, than the ones you pictured. At the risk of starting a stampede to this vendor's door, can you give us the link to the parts you bought? Awesome. And remember, the more helpful you are, the more likely you are to actually get the pleasure of putting them in too
__________________
Roy
1972 J2000 Thriftside
Gathering Parts for a 4.0/AX15 swap
1997 ZJ Laredo 4.0 DD
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-12-2006, 08:53 AM
KaiserMan's Avatar
KaiserMan KaiserMan is offline
I got the Willys....
 
Join Date: Jun 21, 2005
Location: Huntington, Ma.
Posts: 8,654
I just check and the seller doens't have any up right now. Here is a link to the sellers "other items" page. Just keep checking. He had about 6 kits listed, and he most likely has more.

http://search.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W...zzz8linQQhtZ-1
__________________
Thomas Russell
1983 Wagoneer Limited 360/727/NP229 Sunroof
1971 Gladiator
J2000 Platform-Stake Dump 350/T18

1970 Gladiator J3000 3407Z Camper Truck 350/T18
1968 Gladiator J3000 3406Z 160" wheel base DRW 350/T18
1963 Gladiator J300 Townside 350/TH400

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-11-2007, 02:00 PM
H Callaway's Avatar
H Callaway H Callaway is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Aug 13, 2005
Location: Richmond & Natural Bridge VA
Posts: 1,048
Knuckle Lubrication.

What mixture did you use to refill the axle knuckles? This is off the NOVAK web page.
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge...kle_repair.htm
Lubrication
Use of the proper lubricant for the steering knuckle bearings is very important. The lubrication section of the Jeep Service Manual specifies Universal Joint Lubricant #0 for winter and #1 for summer. This material is a semi-liquid grease. Unfortunately, this semi-liquid grease has not been available for some time. An acceptable substitute can be made by mixing chassis lube grease with SAE 140 gear lube until you have the consistency of cold molasses. A half pint of this should be pumped into each knuckle housing with a grease gun. A putty knife can be used to load it into the grease gun. Any lubricant thinner than that described above will leak from the knuckle seal. It will also work its way out into the hub area and contaminate the brake shoes. DO NOT use SAE 90 or 140 gear lube by itself as it is not the proper lubricant.
__________________
900 plus pictures not in any order taken during restoration. (Plus a couple of assorted pictures that down loaded.)
http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j289/hcallaway/
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-11-2007, 02:24 PM
joe joe is online now
 
Join Date: Apr 28, 2000
Location: PNWet, USA
Posts: 21,981
Quote:
Originally Posted by H Callaway
What mixture did you use to refill the axle knuckles? .
I've owned more closed knuckle 4x4's than open and I've always just used conventional non-exotic non-fancy additive plain ol' u-joint grease in mine and never had a prob. Once the axle joint spins a bit it thins the grease just fine even in winter and yes Noak is right if you use gear lube the joints will pee all over themselves. BTDT but only once.
Don't by just one grease cartridge either, buy a few...the bells hold a lot.
__________________
joe
"Don't mind me. I'm just here for the alibi"
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-11-2007, 03:02 PM
KaiserMan's Avatar
KaiserMan KaiserMan is offline
I got the Willys....
 
Join Date: Jun 21, 2005
Location: Huntington, Ma.
Posts: 8,654
I've read that straight grease, and even "knuckle pudding" may not lubricate the king pin bearings properly, so I used 600wt gear oil.
I've checked for leaks, and so far everything is nice and dry. 600wt is some thick ****.
__________________
Thomas Russell
1983 Wagoneer Limited 360/727/NP229 Sunroof
1971 Gladiator
J2000 Platform-Stake Dump 350/T18

1970 Gladiator J3000 3407Z Camper Truck 350/T18
1968 Gladiator J3000 3406Z 160" wheel base DRW 350/T18
1963 Gladiator J300 Townside 350/TH400

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-11-2007, 04:42 PM
fulsizjeep's Avatar
fulsizjeep fulsizjeep is offline
Señor Jackhead
 
Join Date: Aug 21, 2002
Location: Jubilee Jeeps.SWCO
Posts: 22,214
I know we will need to do this on the Camper Special. It has a HD 44 which I believe is only different than standard 44 in the outer axels and hub assembly for 8 lug wheels. Does this sound right? So, this kit will work for a HD44? Anyone know? Thanks!
__________________
Flint
Ran when parked.
http://jubileejeeps.org/quadratrac
88 GW, 401/727/208, 5" lift, D44s/4.10s/locked up, 35s and a few Evil Twin mods, http://eviltwinfab.com and a few TT's Fabworks mods, http://www.ttsfabworks.com
76 401 Wag, 77 401 Wag, 77 401 J20
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-11-2007, 05:08 PM
KaiserMan's Avatar
KaiserMan KaiserMan is offline
I got the Willys....
 
Join Date: Jun 21, 2005
Location: Huntington, Ma.
Posts: 8,654
Flint, that seal replacement is done on a D44HD from a 68 or 69 Camper truck.

Only differances on the c/k 44HD is the wheel hub, locking hub, brakes, outer bearing lock nut, maybe the outer wheel bearing. It's the same size as the inner, where most are smaller. I don't remember if my 5 lug D44 is the same way.
__________________
Thomas Russell
1983 Wagoneer Limited 360/727/NP229 Sunroof
1971 Gladiator
J2000 Platform-Stake Dump 350/T18

1970 Gladiator J3000 3407Z Camper Truck 350/T18
1968 Gladiator J3000 3406Z 160" wheel base DRW 350/T18
1963 Gladiator J300 Townside 350/TH400

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-11-2007, 06:29 PM
68wagoneer
 
Posts: n/a
I changed out mine sometime back, it was a pretty easy job, and they were leaking bad. I asked the forum at the time about what to put back in for lube and everyone replied gear oil which is what I used. I did a post search but then realized I had a different handle back then and don't remember what that was. Doesn't leak and have had no seepage into the drum. I think maybe that the old grease in there mixed with the new gear oil and made the proper consistency. Let's hope so. I plan to check that out here soon. Levels have been good since the seal change.
Mike Hopkins
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-11-2007, 06:36 PM
68wagoneer
 
Posts: n/a
Oh yeah, good write up Kaiserman and thanks H callaway for the lube info.
Also I think I got the seal kits from Tellico 4x4, they were Omix-ada I believe. Don't remember how much but it was reasonable.
Mike Hopkins
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-12-2007, 06:13 AM
Elliott's Avatar
Elliott Elliott is offline
Cowboy Up
 
Join Date: Jun 22, 2002
Location: Pilot Point, TX
Posts: 12,936
Just to add a little, NAPA sells a neoprene replacement for the felt seal. They aren't cheap though.
__________________
*** I am collecting pics and info on any factory Jeep Dually trucks from the J-Series at the new Jeep Dually Registry.
***I can set you up with hydroboost for your brakes: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=106056
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-12-2007, 06:50 AM
Lindel's Avatar
Lindel Lindel is offline
Perfesser of Jeepology
 
Join Date: Jun 15, 2000
Location: Carpentersville, IL 60110
Posts: 9,204
Excellent write up, Thomas!
__________________
Jeep Grounds
RRV Homepage
Texas Full Size Jeep Association
1987 Grand Wagoneer
AMC 360/TF727/NP229
1999 Wrangler Sport
4.0L/AX-15/NV231


Quote:
“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction” by Ronald Reagan.


Formerly of DFW/Gun Barrel City, TX - eventually to return...
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-12-2007, 07:04 AM
Tad's Avatar
Tad Tad is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 30, 2001
Location: Out West
Posts: 17,619
Like -joe and some others here I have had more than my fair share of closed knuckle axles over the years
Way back when the folks here at Willys Works told me to just make my own lube.
One part bearing greese with one part gear oil, mix it up into a nice soup.
It's messy, but I never had any problem with that combination.
__________________
2000 Infinity QX4, 3.3L, MPFI, 4 speed auto, 2 speed Nissan tcase, Unibody, IFS front, 4 link rear solid axle with 255-70/16s

IFSJA WMS PROJECT
EARLY WAG LIFT SEARCH

Quote:
...Pay no attention to these heathen barbarians with their cutting torches and 8" lift kits!...

Self Inflicted Flesh Wound
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner