TBI

[BradN]

I found out this weekend that the carb on my '90 GW is broken. I am going to plug it to get me by but I am toying with the idea of replacing it with a TBI setup rather than simply replacing the carb.

So my question to all the gurus out there is, what would be the best way to go about converting to TBI? I know Holley and Howell both have kits, but is there a better/cheaper route? Would putting TBI on a 360 with 100k miles on it be considered polishing a turd?

Thanks in advance!

[GED]

$900 at:

http://www.customefis.com/jeepgwfi.html

http://www.customefis.com/

[hippymill]

Would putting TBI on a 360 with 100k miles on it be considered polishing a turd?

from what i've gathered here, TBI won't do much except help with starting issues(cold starts, etc...) A properly tuned carburetor will get you the same result. If you are not in an emissions state, i'd reccomend taking off the emissions equipment and related vac lines, and putting an edelbrock 2131 4bbl intake manifold and an edelbrock 1406 carb, or a holley carb. this combination will give you relatively easy starts, simpler tuning, and reliable performance. If you are in an emissions state edelbrock has a 3731 intake and 1400 carb that will pass emissions standards. you'll spend less on this setup, and still get a hassle-free setup that you can maintain yourself.

[1BDWAGN]

The easiest way is to follow the link above. Or purchase a kit from some of the companies you listed. The cheaper route is to do it yourself. I don't think it is polishing a turd at all. I like the AMC 360 and I think a TBI setup would make me like it that much more. Here is a breakdown of what I have invested in my system (Not installed yet)
$160 TBI and wiring harness with sensors (eBay)
$165 HEI for AMC
$50 adapter for TBI to squarebore manifold
$30 Chevy Factory in-tank pump
$25 1-Wire oxygen sensor
$2.50 18 mm sparkplug non-fouler (modify for O2 sensor bung in exhaust pipe)
$?? Pay shop to weld in above part for O2 sensor (only thing not done yet)
$15 steel lines for fuel system
$20 misc wire, solder, tape

Now, I already have an Eprom programmer and the appropriate software from a previous project. Or you can buy an Eprom from CustomEFIS.com. There are schematics on-line to build your own harness and plenty of other resources. Good luck.

I don't expect to get a ton better gas mileage (Although GM does have a highway enleanment mode that is disable, I plan to enable it on road trips) But what I do expect is to gain a much more reliable setup than a carb can ever give me. Plus the ECM is constantly making changes to give the best results (assuming your eprom calibration is right) meaning you'll have a smoother more efficient engine making a decent amount of power. No power valves to blow or floats to sink. I had a Blazer with 160K miles on it's TBI system and it still ran well. Almost forgot, I can use my remote start more reliably as well.

[ April 06, 2004, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: bd2thbnAZ ]

[Bridge]

I just finished installing the TPIGuy's TBI kit on Saturday. Wow. What a difference. And I did it myself which, after seeing TPIGuy's detailed instructions, was another reason I went with it.

Considered a pedigree four barrel, but the costs involved (new manifold as well) would have brought me to over half the cost of the TBI. My carb was a rebuilt 2150 which had a loose throttle shaft. Could have rebuilt the shaft as the cheapest way to go. But hey, now I have fuel injection. The Boss. The Max. The Best of the Best.

The TBI kit from www.customefis.com wil take a few weeks (9)to arrive, but I am glad I waited. John Wilson (THE TPIGuy) was great at walking me through emission rehook-up. It was simply a great project...and product. my 2 cents.

[chrism]

If you have the money to spend and your 360 runs resonably well then go with the TBI. You will still have to go through and make sure all your vacume leaks are sealed, etc. The TBI is not a magical cure for all the small problems that seem to add up and make our rigs a PITA sometimes.

I also have the custom efis tbi setup and it is the only reason that the 360 is still in my Cherokee.

[jhanson]

Megasquirt DIY EFI. I got the kit and am ready to install it on my wag this week. Although I am basically replacing the controller of a Holley kit that a previous owner installed (I hate that old analog controller). I'm thinking that I'll get it running well, and maybe get another intake and modify it for multi-port injection instead of TBI. That's one of the cool things about megasquirt, it's customizable. I also plan to add ignition control in the future. A newer version, Ultra Megasquirt, is coming out this year that includes ignition, sequential port injection and other goodies as well.

[BradN]

My main reason for thinking about the TBI is dependability. If I get increased gas mileage, that would be a bonus! Emissions are not an issue right now but my understanding is they will be in the next couple of years.

This vehicle is my wife's daily driver and I work about 45 miles from home. So if it breaks down, she will be stranded.

As far as the cosmetics go, this is a very nice Jeep and I am currently working on getting rid of all the mechanical issues. I have already been through the heating system, the ignition system, and fixed the leaky transmission. I now need to fix two vacuum leaks (one of which is the broken fitting on the carb), eliminate an oil leak and replace the alternator. Yep, it's a Jeep!

[Glenn_tx]

Yo Brad! Sent you a private message.

[chr1s]

Well I just bought another wag (1987 G-Wag, Rebuilt 360, TBI) and I can tell you there is a nice feeling to just turning the key and having your Jeep fire right up. The TBI was purchased from customefis.com. I need to go over the system to do some tweaking. I will be adding either TFI or HEI and I know it will only get better at that point!!

[SpruceMoose]

BradN: go efi!!! instant start-up and drive away. just like a real car! [img]smile.gif[/img] had my holley setup for a few years now. works fine. got all my stuff from ebay.

jhanson: i know where you can toss out that old analog efi controller!!! (wink-wink, nudge-nudge) i assume its for the 2bbl 670cfm unit. let me know if you are interested in mailing it off instead of trashing it. i could always use a spare.

sm.

[Serious Johnson]

The beauty of computer moderated EFI is its ability to maintain near optimum tune in varying conditions. My mailbox is 5,000' below my house, and my family is 7'000' below that. A carburetor / catalytic converter combo simply can't cope with such changes. I experienced at least 50% (probably more) power & fuel efficiency loss in my '83 360 Wag with a 12,000' elevation change. I expect the TBI setup from customefis.com that I'm installing to at least cut that loss in half.

If you seldom experience gross altitude change, the weather where you live is fairly constant, and your intended use of the truck doesn't span a broad range, then saving half by going with a well-tuned carburetor might pay. You'll have to decide what easy starting, smooth running, extended engine life, a bit better fuel efficiency, and cleaner emissions are worth.

:-

[Rust Farmer]

Originally posted by BradN:
My main reason for thinking about the TBI is dependability.

This vehicle is my wife's daily driver and I work about 45 miles from home. So if it breaks down, she will be stranded.

Brad, I've owned lots of FSJ's with the 2150 carb and have had as a daily driver for the last 6 months an 89 GW with Holley Analog Pro-Jection.

My Opinion: None of the currently available aftermarket fuel injection options for our Jeeps are more dependable than a tuned up, not worn out carb, no vacuum leaks, FSJ.

Cold weather driveability is much better with fuel injection. Carbs are more dependable. Fuel injection will work great until some sensor fails and then you are dead in the water. Carbs will work ok and slowly degrade as they wear out. It is my opinion that a carb is more dependable, and aftermarket fuel injection is more likely to leave you stranded.

Don't get me wrong, aftermarket fuel injection is a lot of fun if you are a gearhead and like to tinker with your Jeep. Just make sure you have a cell phone and an alternate vehicle.

Get another stock 2150 carb that is not worn out, and replace ALL the vacuum hoses under your hood.

If you really have to have fuel injection on an FSJ, buy your wife a minivan or cherokee/grand cherokee and give yourself several months to get the fuel injection installed / tuned / debugged on your GW.

Good Luck

RF

[ April 17, 2004, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: Rust Farmer ]

[Joe Guilbeau]

Originally posted by jhanson:
Megasquirt DIY EFI. I got the kit and am ready to install it on my wag this week. Although I am basically replacing the controller of a Holley kit that a previous owner installed (I hate that old analog controller). I'm thinking that I'll get it running well, and maybe get another intake and modify it for multi-port injection instead of TBI. That's one of the cool things about megasquirt, it's customizable. I also plan to add ignition control in the future. A newer version, Ultra Megasquirt, is coming out this year that includes ignition, sequential port injection and other goodies as well.

How about giving a heads up when you get her dialed in, I have the Analog Holley TBI (and I too am tired of twisting knobs).

How did the construction go, did you buy the complete kit and just solder in the components?

Last summer I was looking at doing this but it seems that the kinks hadn't been worked through completely.

I am interested in seeing how the Megasquirt measures up, anything is better than the Op amps used by Holley, Doh!

[jhanson]

Never have enough time to do things!!! I have everything installed for MegaSquirt (MS), but have not had the time to make the switch to having MS do the actual controling (no time to devote to tuning), hoping to do that this weekend. All sensors are installed, and I've been running MegaTune (laptop software) and verifying that I'm ready to take the plunge. Just need to move the injector wires from the Holley controler to MS and get to tuning.

Joe, I ordered the parts kit for the MS, Stim, And Relay board from Bowling and Grippo, and the MS and Stimulator kits fro Glen at glensgarage.com

Just have to make sure that I have time to do the initial tuning all at once, as this is my daily driver. I'll let everyone know how it goes.