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  #1  
Old 09-12-2017, 06:36 AM
acfortier acfortier is offline
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'81 rear axle seals?

I've got an '81 J10, which I believe is supposed to have the AMC-20... But it looks like I have the Dana 44?



I need to do the seals, as its pissing out fluid into one of my wheels



Can anyone point me to the right part numbers necessary? I just want to make sure I get the proper seal. Thanks!

Last edited by acfortier : 09-12-2017 at 04:34 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-12-2017, 07:40 AM
440sixpack 440sixpack is offline
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They never put a 20 in the J series. you have a 44 unless someone changed it.

I can't see your pictures for whatever reason but any parts store should be able to get you the right seal. check your bearings while you're at it.
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  #3  
Old 09-12-2017, 07:48 AM
acfortier acfortier is offline
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Weird, I thought I read somewhere that they did. Hmm.

Looking at Rock Auto gives me all types of potential seals... They list some as "Model 20"
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  #4  
Old 09-12-2017, 08:02 AM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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The 1974-80 parts book only shows the 44 for the 10-20 models (wagons and J10). The '82 TSM shows the Corporate rear axle for all models except the J20. This means the change-over was sometime around 1981. Your truck could have a 44, depending on when it was manufactured. Jeep was not fussy about precise change-over dates by model and equipment, presumably based on using up what parts they had on hand.
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Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D

Last edited by tgreese : 09-12-2017 at 08:10 AM.
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  #5  
Old 09-12-2017, 01:41 PM
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Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 is offline
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AMC 20 was the standard rear axle in ALL 1980-1986 Wagons and J-10 trucks. Maybe some early 1980 models had left over Dana 44 or late '86 models had changed back to Dana 44 but in between that they were all AMC 20. I can't view your Photobucket pics so we can't see what axle you really have.
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1979 Cherokee Golden Eagle - 4" lift, 33x12.5x15
AMC 360 - 4180, TFI, Headers, Dual Exhaust
TH400 - Shift Kit, Deep Pan, Aux Cooler
D20 - Twin Stick'd
F D44 - 3.54, Open
R D44 - 3.54, Lock'd

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the best advice on the thread.
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  #6  
Old 09-12-2017, 01:56 PM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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That's what I thought too... and that's generally repeated over and over.

However, I went to my '74-80 parts book. It shows D44s for the J10 and wagons through 1980, and no M20s (Corporate axles). It clearly shows M20s for 80-90 (CJs) through 1980, but no listings of Corporate axles for any FSJs. If this is wrong, it's quite a major omission in the AMC-authored official factory parts book. The Chrysler-authored '81-86 book on the Tom Collins site shows the Corporate axle, but does not list for 1980.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
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  #7  
Old 09-12-2017, 02:01 PM
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Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgreese
That's what I thought too... and that's generally repeated over and over.

However, I went to my '74-80 parts book. It shows D44s for the J10 and wagons through 1980, and no M20s (Corporate axles). It clearly shows M20s for 80-90 (CJs) through 1980, but no listings of Corporate axles for any FSJs. If this is wrong, it's quite a major omission in the AMC-authored official factory parts book. The Chrysler-authored '81-86 book on the Tom Collins site shows the Corporate axle, but does not list for 1980.
I'll see if I can get MattMopar440 to check the build date on his '80 J-10 Laredo but it has a factory AMC 20.
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-Jonny B.
1979 Cherokee Golden Eagle - 4" lift, 33x12.5x15
AMC 360 - 4180, TFI, Headers, Dual Exhaust
TH400 - Shift Kit, Deep Pan, Aux Cooler
D20 - Twin Stick'd
F D44 - 3.54, Open
R D44 - 3.54, Lock'd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ristow
the best advice on the thread.
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  #8  
Old 09-12-2017, 04:35 PM
acfortier acfortier is offline
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Just fixed the pictures, it's definitely a D44 to me. Just thought it was odd. Although, according to the VIN on this truck, it should have had a 6 cyl + 4 spd, but I got it with a V8 and 3 spd.
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  #9  
Old 09-12-2017, 06:58 PM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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That's a Dana axle. Tubes look too small for a 60.

I looked at my book again, now that I'm home. It shows a Dana 44 for a 1980 16-17-18-25-45 which is all the FSJs except the J20 (1980 model 46). Seems pretty darn definite.
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Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
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  #10  
Old 09-12-2017, 08:23 PM
440sixpack 440sixpack is offline
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The AMC 20 is a POS. they didn't even hold up in a car. if they put a 20 in a pick up it's another reason AMC deserved to go broke.

I like my AMC's but as a manufacturer they sucked it's just hard to deny.


That picture is a Dana.
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  #11  
Old 09-12-2017, 10:48 PM
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Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 440sixpack
The AMC 20 is a POS. they didn't even hold up in a car. if they put a 20 in a pick up it's another reason AMC deserved to go broke.

I like my AMC's but as a manufacturer they sucked it's just hard to deny.


That picture is a Dana.
Check your info. The AMC 20 used in the FSJs was far different than the AMC 20 used in their cars and CJs. Actually designated the M23 the FSJ AMC 20 had thicker tubes and one piece axle shafts. If you compare one with a Dana 44 it is actually on Par with strength with a larger ring and pinion gear.
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-Jonny B.
1979 Cherokee Golden Eagle - 4" lift, 33x12.5x15
AMC 360 - 4180, TFI, Headers, Dual Exhaust
TH400 - Shift Kit, Deep Pan, Aux Cooler
D20 - Twin Stick'd
F D44 - 3.54, Open
R D44 - 3.54, Lock'd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ristow
the best advice on the thread.
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  #12  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:29 AM
Nikkormat Nikkormat is offline
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Yep, this has been debated a lot over the years but the bottom line is an fsj model 20 is a good axle. The ring and pinion are physically larger, and use larger bearings. I've heard the model 20 pumpkin is stronger too, but I've never seen anything to back that up. Axle tubes are identical out to the backing plates. And they use the same SET10 wheel bearings. Minor annoyance is that the backing plate is designed to go in the parts stack up of the bearing, race, seal, etc... It's easy to solve that with a die grinder and five minutes.

The weak spot once you start getting into BIG power is the welds between the pumpkin and the axle tubes. But that's nothing that can't be solved with a couple of welding rods and a couple 1 inch long beads of weld.

I've also heard less stories about people loosing axle shafts at speed... Maybe that's because there are fewer people running them, so the sample sizes are off, but either way. Makes me sleep better.

The rock crawling crowd isn't a fan of the AMC 20 because the deepest gears available are 4.88's. But in my opinion that's the deepest you should run a Dana 44 anyway...
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  #13  
Old 09-13-2017, 05:45 AM
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Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikkormat
Minor annoyance is that the backing plate is designed to go in the parts stack up of the bearing, race, seal, etc...
All true except this part. That is only true on the CJ and car axles. The FSJ M23 is set up the same as the Dana 44 in regards to the backing plate/axle retainer.
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-Jonny B.
1979 Cherokee Golden Eagle - 4" lift, 33x12.5x15
AMC 360 - 4180, TFI, Headers, Dual Exhaust
TH400 - Shift Kit, Deep Pan, Aux Cooler
D20 - Twin Stick'd
F D44 - 3.54, Open
R D44 - 3.54, Lock'd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ristow
the best advice on the thread.
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  #14  
Old 09-13-2017, 07:26 AM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Regarding the OP's question about seals -

The book shows an inner seal in the tube and an outer seal that's in the bearing stack on the axle. The outer seal only offers one number - 994261 - which is the same for all Dana 44s.

There is an inner seal in the tube which I understand was eliminated at some point... listings for that contradict the story that all '80s had rear 44s. It specs 994258 for the 44, and 3235929 for the Corporate axle. It also says that 10-20-45 for 1980 gets the 3235929 seal for 1980, and that some 1979s with 3.07 gears also use that part ("those axles with the round cover").

If you go to the RockAuto site, both 994258 and 994261 cross to good SKF and Timken numbers (also to an Omix part, but don't buy Omix if you can avoid it). These are what you need for a Dana 44 axle.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
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  #15  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:26 AM
acfortier acfortier is offline
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Thanks for the info! I ended up buying this kit from BJs: http://www.bjsoffroad.com/Dana-44-Re...-Kit_p_83.html
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  #16  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:04 PM
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mattmopar440 mattmopar440 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81
I'll see if I can get MattMopar440 to check the build date on his '80 J-10 Laredo but it has a factory AMC 20.

3/1980 and yea it has a AMC 20


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Originally Posted by Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81
Inferior Chevy



Last edited by mattmopar440 : 09-13-2017 at 03:04 PM.
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  #17  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:31 PM
Nikkormat Nikkormat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81
All true except this part. That is only true on the CJ and car axles. The FSJ M23 is set up the same as the Dana 44 in regards to the backing plate/axle retainer.

Sweet! Thanks! That's good news, I was going to swap disks onto the 20 in my new jeep just to avoid having to deal with that. No need to now!
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  #18  
Old 09-14-2017, 08:43 PM
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Thomas792 Thomas792 is offline
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Replacing the seals is not really that hard, just time consuming since you have to put new bearings on as well. Pressing them on can get expensive if you don't "know a guy." I would strongly recommend to put the inner seal in and not discard them like some would say. Packing the bearings is a must but relying on differential fluid to keep the bearings lubed did not work for me. ~200 miles and the bearings were toast.
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