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  #1  
Old 06-30-2000, 12:54 AM
River Beast River Beast is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 18, 2000
Location: Lakewood, Calif
Posts: 11,642
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Question...how many "Monster FSJ's" have had this or similar work done or being done???

I have started to look into this and other financial setbacks in my project (wife won't give up the checkbook ) . I have called my local driveline shop and found out that it would cost me around $950 to have this driveshaft made(using mine for the 1st CV). Now don't think I jumped on this! A good friend of mine had this done out of Pamona, Ca on his Wrangler for $360 from scratch. I was doing my research on all info I could get from the Forum and other extreme 4x4 owners here locally. Having 11" of suspension lift is not a low-dollar build... right Mark...Kenall??? I have also looked into the possibility of a support bearing style 2-piece shaft for $560 installed with custom support mounts. My next step is calling out to other shops out-of-state but are still close enuf to drive to for work to be done. If anybody had a good reliable source and/or good pics, I would like to see a post here...thanks. I'm not rushing into things, I have PLENTY of time before 2002...

------------------
TJ
78 Wagoneer "River Beast"
360/TH400/QT
Dana 44's w/ 3.54's (soon to be 4.88's)
7" SOA conversion
4" Skyjacker Softride
3" Trailmaster Bodylift
33x12.50's on 15x10's
(soon 38.5x14.50's on 12's)
My FSJ site: http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life
"Where there's a hill...there's a way!"

[This message has been edited by River Beast (edited June 30, 2000).]
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  #2  
Old 06-30-2000, 04:11 PM
fulmetal fulmetal is offline
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Join Date: Apr 13, 2000
Location: New Holland, Pa.
Posts: 328
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OK here it goes, I dropped my lift back down to about 9" after the new shaft was installed. I bought my front shaft from Woods out of Utah for about 380.00 w/ lifetime warranty. All you do is call them send yours back to be repaired or if to mangled build you another rom scratch. The reason went down w/ the lift was I had to limit the down travel w/ strapps figured more articulation was better than lift. That was a double cardan w/standard diff end. Great deal, the draw back is the front shaft is way to short but what to do? let me know if you figure it out

------------------
84 Grand Wag
360, soa, headers,
33 bfg,s
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  #3  
Old 06-30-2000, 11:19 PM
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scotty scotty is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 12, 2000
Location: dayton,oh,45431
Posts: 6,627
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i dont know about this one,but thought id comment that my front driveshaft doesnt even have a cardigan joint.i made my wheels and tires fit with a body lift and sawzall,rather than a big lift,so my suspension is almost completely stock no vibes,no binding,and LOTS of wheel travel with longest shocks i could find and stock springs!
what is your front pinion angle?it maybe neccessary to point the pinion directly at the T case and have a driveshaft made the appropriate length with a good CV joint at the top.
do you allready have a part time kit in your quadra trac? that would help you more than anything-convert it to part time(or swap in something else) and put manual hubs on the front.now your front shaft only spins and vibrates in 4wd. no more 2wd vibes on the stree1!

scott

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scott
85 grand wagoneer
258/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd
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  #4  
Old 07-01-2000, 03:48 AM
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mark mark is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Jun 14, 2000
Location: nj usa
Posts: 1,906
Talking

hi tj
looks like weve got the same problem.i was looking at a j-10 with a springover the other day.he had a custom dana 60 in the front and the pinion was pointed straight up at the t-case output.he claims he didnt have any binding and it worked fine.i have a friend who builds racing rears and hees taking a dana 60 rear that i had here and converting it to a front dana 60.we are running 60 axles but im using the 44 knuckles so i can still run the dodge setup with 15 inch wheels.he started the other nite and its almost complete.in the mean time im going to lower my entire driveline 2 inches ,not just the transfercase but the engine as well.we are building a big ford also and that has 18 inch springs.there is no way to run a front driveshaft in it the way it is now so we are going to stack 2 transfercases together and move the output yoke back 9 inches.this helps the front greatly and in the rear we are going to switch to a 1 pc shaft.ive been told that a driveshaft with 2 cv joints actually is working at a more severe angle than a shaft with one because the shaft is actually shorter.ill keep you posted.

------------------
mark
79 cherokee chief
11 in lift 42 in swampers
(ABOVE THE LAW)
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  #5  
Old 07-02-2000, 06:58 AM
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mark mark is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Jun 14, 2000
Location: nj usa
Posts: 1,906
Talking

TJ
the shaft is so short in the front,how could you possibly run a 2 pc shaft with a center support?wouldnt the angle be even more severe on at least one?

------------------
mark
79 cherokee chief
11 in lift 42 in swampers
(ABOVE THE LAW)
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  #6  
Old 07-02-2000, 07:11 AM
fulmetal fulmetal is offline
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Join Date: Apr 13, 2000
Location: New Holland, Pa.
Posts: 328
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hi, I havent got this picture transfer down yet but here is the adress of the pics to view at photo point. Hope this will help in the conversation, just cut and paste on you adress bar to go there http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...7566&a=1372271

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  #7  
Old 07-02-2000, 07:30 AM
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mark mark is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Jun 14, 2000
Location: nj usa
Posts: 1,906
Cool

hey fullmetal
thats awsome .when i made my crossover i didnt even think of doing it that way.is that all the stock steering linkage?did you buy it or make it?i think tj and i have just a little more height in the front.i know my driveshaft wont spin freely because i tried it.are you running a q-track or is your 4 wheel partime?lots of questions.great pics.

------------------
mark
79 cherokee chief
11 in lift 42 in swampers
(ABOVE THE LAW)
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  #8  
Old 07-02-2000, 08:59 AM
KENALL
 
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now u guys no y i kept the OE springs when i did my SOA

FM, since u have the NP case with its round bolt pattern, wood it be unconceivable to u to 'rotate' the xcase CCW, as viewed from the rear, one bolt position?? or to lower the rear of the tranny mount? or both?

also, i dont see the mechanical possiblity of a twin CV joint shaft. what wood hold the 'center section' from 'rubber banding' as it turns at hi revs?




------------------
1966 Super Wagoneer
'The Predecessor' http://home.earthlink.net/~kenns9/index.html
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  #9  
Old 07-02-2000, 09:16 AM
fulmetal fulmetal is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Apr 13, 2000
Location: New Holland, Pa.
Posts: 328
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All right lets try to answer these. All of the steering components are the stock ones w/ a few mods such as shortening and reinforcing the tie rods. I lowered the tranny about an inch, took of the spacer of the tranny mount and reattached the torque arm. I did not try to rotate the transfer case due to clearance on the cross member. As you can see I had to notch it as it is.
I did lower the lift a bit to increase the articullation and so the shaft will not bind on full drop.The opnly thing I am considdering is adding another tie-rod set on the lower mounts for strength. I do have a set of warn hubs installed fort he part- time t/c. Any other Questions let me know, I hope I answered them thx guys
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  #10  
Old 07-02-2000, 02:49 PM
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mark mark is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Jun 14, 2000
Location: nj usa
Posts: 1,906
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fm
next 100 questions
just what year is that rig.is the front diff on the driverside?i didnt think the knuckles on our rigs ever came with flatop knuckles with enough materal to do a crossover setup.did you shim or rotate the front pinion at all?why did you go to a shorter shock?is your rig a daily driver?


------------------
mark
79 cherokee chief
11 in lift 42 in swampers
(ABOVE THE LAW)
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  #11  
Old 07-02-2000, 05:24 PM
Marc_01 Marc_01 is offline
Gear Head
 
Join Date: May 10, 2000
Location: Suffolk, VA USA
Posts: 694
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Nice rig!

I really like that rack on the back, do you have any information on that rack you have?

Im sure you have the 360 V8 in your truck, but is your exhuast system stock? I like how your exhuast is ran away from the front drive shaft. I have the dog leg headers on my truck and don't like how they are so close to the frame and drive shaft. Your headers (if they are headers) look like the 3 into 1 style. If they are what brand are they. Any information is appreciated.

[This message has been edited by Marc_01 (edited July 02, 2000).]
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  #12  
Old 07-03-2000, 07:49 AM
fulmetal fulmetal is offline
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Join Date: Apr 13, 2000
Location: New Holland, Pa.
Posts: 328
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My rig is an 84 Grand Wag, with a few retro parts thrown in for good measure. I like to think I have taken the best of the years and made mine even better. My front diff member is on the left side with vacume actuated diff design. I only wish it was on the other side it would make retro fitting a whole lot easier. I used the knuckells of a chevy d44 because they are trully flat on top, while the pinion anges are not perfect I was able to adjust the camber w/a set of shims to correct the steering. My rig is a daily driver but who can afford it w/ gas prices
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  #13  
Old 07-04-2000, 10:06 AM
River Beast River Beast is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 18, 2000
Location: Lakewood, Calif
Posts: 11,642
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WOW!!! What a feedback!!! Thanks to all for their comments... Just got back from Los Angeles and here you guys are just runnin' away with this...Here goes:

1. Full Metal: NICE RIG!!! looks like you and Mark have ventured where I am just about to go... I will have to put a bug in your ear every now and then
2. Mark: I have been told that the support bearing setup will work... haven't seen it done yet and they haven't seen the rig yet. You have got alot of projects in the works... want mine?!? Just kidding....

3.Scotty: No P/T kit as of yet... REALLY like the QT the way she is (will be P/T soon after everything else is done). She came with a CV joint(double Cardin) end at the QT from the factory... also have been informed that reguarless of the angle on the diff to QT there would be no vibes with the dual setup. This would be reasonable in the aspect of not having to rotate the knuckles to correct the steering geometry. I have done some research on the CV joint setup... 30 Degrees is the max working angle and I believe I am over that as she sits. Also I heard it's not good to have a "direct" angle on either end because U-joints are made to run at angles.

4:KENALL: You were right!!!! this can be trying on the pocketbook and on the brain. I don't know what my local driveline shop has in mind... I see what you are saying about the rubber band affect.... maybe they add a support bearing on that setup,too.

I have alot of research to dig up on this topic and will definitely let you all know what comes of it.... I really appreciate all the posts... makes me think more and a little clearere in alot of areas...

Mark... I will E-mail you about those ladder bars and other stuff...

Thanks again...

------------------
TJ
78 Wagoneer "River Beast"
360/TH400/QT
Dana 44's w/ 3.54's (soon to be 4.88's)
7" SOA conversion
4" Skyjacker Softride
3" Trailmaster Bodylift
33x12.50's on 15x10's
(soon 38.5x14.50's on 12's)
My FSJ site: http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life
"Where there's a hill...there's a way!"
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  #14  
Old 07-05-2000, 10:33 AM
mark's Avatar
mark mark is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Jun 14, 2000
Location: nj usa
Posts: 1,906
Cool

HI TJ
i had a horrible noise in the rear after i added another 3 in block.it was a chattering or ratcheting noise that i still cant explain on acceleration.its been there since i put the 60 in the rear(its got a posi and i thought it was that)but after the rear was up on 7 in of blocks it was horrible.i used to run ladder bars but was hoping not to this time.i put them back on (this time upside down for more clearance)and the noise went away except on heavy acceleration.i can live with that for now because i need it to get to work everyday.my buddy is building me a dana60 front and its almost complete.hees making it from a dana60 rear believe it or not.i hope to have pics soon of that.the end have to be cut off anyway so were swapping the ends with a dana44 so i can still run 15 inch wheels.soon as the digital camera comes back to work ill take some pics of everything.
later
mark


------------------
mark
79 cherokee chief
11 in lift 42 in swampers
(ABOVE THE LAW)
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  #15  
Old 07-05-2000, 11:16 AM
fulmetal fulmetal is offline
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Join Date: Apr 13, 2000
Location: New Holland, Pa.
Posts: 328
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whe I started to mess w/ the rear as far as lift the rear shaft is not nearly as forgivving as the front because of the cardan joint in the front. mine shuddered also, I then turned the 1" block around to point the drive angle back down and the noise went away. good luck
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  #16  
Old 07-05-2000, 11:39 AM
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mark mark is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Jun 14, 2000
Location: nj usa
Posts: 1,906
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thanks fm
i had to stack blocks and it seemed if i put the large end in the back on both of them that the angle would be too high.i put the angles opposing each other so its like a square block.the pads have already been repositioned.although the driveshaft is at an angle ,it appears to be the same at both ends.the ladderbars are holding the pinion from jumping up.
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  #17  
Old 07-06-2000, 01:51 AM
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scotty scotty is offline
 
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Location: dayton,oh,45431
Posts: 6,627
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riverbeast,
you are right,it is important for both angles to be the same,so that the rotations cancel one another out.however,from what ive rear in magazines,etc., when dealing with short shafts/extreme lifts and using CV joints,the proper procedure is not to try and keep the angles the same,but rather to point the axle pinion directly at the tailshaft.or,the front output yoke,in this case.

one other thing that came to mind-are youre u joint crosses the same?its also important for them to not be turned,they need to be the same to operate in the same plane.ive heard of people replacing the slip yoke,and getting it back together with that joint alittle out of wack and ending up with a vibe.of course,im not sure how this appies to a cv shaft- i guess that the single joint end must line up exactly with one or the other-im not sure which,though.anyone have any thoughts on that?



------------------
scott
85 grand wagoneer
258/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd
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  #18  
Old 07-06-2000, 05:31 AM
River Beast River Beast is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 18, 2000
Location: Lakewood, Calif
Posts: 11,642
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by scotty:
riverbeast,
you are right,it is important for both angles to be the same,so that the rotations cancel one another out.however,from what ive rear in magazines,etc., when dealing with short shafts/extreme lifts and using CV joints,the proper procedure is not to try and keep the angles the same,but rather to point the axle pinion directly at the tailshaft.or,the front output yoke,in this case.

one other thing that came to mind-are youre u joint crosses the same?its also important for them to not be turned,they need to be the same to operate in the same plane.ive heard of people replacing the slip yoke,and getting it back together with that joint alittle out of wack and ending up with a vibe.of course,im not sure how this appies to a cv shaft- i guess that the single joint end must line up exactly with one or the other-im not sure which,though.anyone have any thoughts on that?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will have to look into that... my local shop said the direct shot is worse on both u-joints and CV types alike. I better do more research before i weld up my perches wrong...hmmmm.

As for the phasing...my joints are aligned. I went thru that before and it wasn't fun... but thanks for the thought... all is appreciated and worth alot to me an probably others.

I still am at a standstill in many areas... this is one of many. $$$$ is tight right now and my "better half" is being real patient with me thus far and don't want to push. A little at a time is all I can do...but in the meantime... research,research,research!!!!

God I love this Forum!!! Everyone is sooo great... cant wait to meet everyone in 2002!!!



------------------
TJ
78 Wagoneer "River Beast"
360/TH400/QT
Dana 44's w/ 3.54's (soon to be 4.88's)
7" SOA conversion
4" Skyjacker Softride
3" Trailmaster Bodylift
33x12.50's on 15x10's
(soon 38.5x14.50's on 12's)
My FSJ site: http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life
"Where there's a hill...there's a way!"
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