Is there a inexpensive rust converter/encapsulator?

[Cherokeeowner]

The rust in the pictures is just surface rust and I will clean it off. But is there a inexpensive rust converter/encapsulator?
What does everyone use to seal up the floor when they're done? I don't want to spend a fortune on some ultra special NASA type rust encapsulator.

[joe]

Not really. "Converter", "encapsulator" are pretty much marketing terms. Some do help and work better than others but NONE STOP/KILL rust, only slow it down once it's in the metal. For ultra fine light flash rust Ospho (phosphoric) acid works good for pre paint prep. Brush it on, when powdery brush it off, blow dust off, prime, paint. For rust that's already eaten into the metal power wire brush, grind what you can till it's visibly gone even though it's still into pores of the steel. Now an encapsulator/converter is some help. Paint it on and let "fully cure" at least 8hrs or what the directions say. DO NOT sand it. Then prime, paint. I busted rust on steel workboats for too many years of my career and the best I've used were either Enrust or Chemprime. I've "heard" the stuff Eastwood sells is pretty good for home shop use but never used it. Bottom line once rust gets into the metal...you got it. Ain't no magic spray/brush on cure period. Slow it down?...yes. STOP, KILL?...no. In MI expect to be dealing with/treating rust forever.
Once you get whatever you decide to smear on in place and painted I would lose the carpet and the drain plugs in the floor and hose out the floor occasionally. A wet carpet, especially soaked in road salt slush from your boots takes forever to dry out in winter and the wet carpet just keeps incubating the rust.
I don't envy you salted roads rust belt folks. I'm originally from Detroit.

[WrenchMonkey]

Jeezus, my floorpans look like yours should, yours like great! For being in michigan I'm surprised there's any FSJ still there.

As for treatment I don't disagree with what was said. I'm wire wheeling, grinding and sanding everything I can and anything that has a hole is getting cut out and patched. Then bedlined, inside and out.

[ZackN920]

Ive used "rust reformer" by rustoleum. For the crap that i've used it on, it seems to have lasted...As long as I took my time cleaning up the rust. If I rushed the job and did it half assed, well, that stuff has re-rusted over, but has takin' some time doing so.

[bufurd]

Rust Bullit is my rust killer of choice, Mastercoat makes the same looking stuff, I like rust bullet because it comes in a smaller can for the little projects. If your looking for cheap, I did my floors in the 69 9 years ago with an RV roof coating I had left over and amazingly it still looks great. It was the metal roof sealer that turns silver once applied. I'm waiting for the Rust Bullet to dry right now so I can apply second coat on Humptys rear flares and a bit of bed seam. STUPID RUST!!

[Cherokeeowner]

This particular GW was in Idaho and Texas most of it's life. I bought it off of a KensAMC who was a member here. He had it in Illinois before I bought it. No rust holes anywhere, just some surface rust.


Neither of my GW's see the Michigan salt, they are hidden in the garage once the white death starts falling. I know that sounds funny but nothing eats up a classic faster than salt or calcium chloride. I would like to rebuild/resto mod another wagon or J truck and seal and undercoat the heck out of it for winter use. That or just move to a state where I don't have to worry about the salt.

My 1998 XJ has finally rusted through on the floors. On days above freezing, I would use a sweeper nozzle on the subframes, rockers, etc. and flush the salt out of it. It only delays the inevitable destruction but the Cherokee has made it 19 years in the Michigan. That is an achievement here. What, 1998...That means i'm driving a vehicle from the last century... I've always been a little behind.

[ZackN920]

Was your XJ ever undercoated? Mine is in great shape underneath for being a daily driver for 16.5 years... But, mine was properly undercoated, unlike my rotted Wag.

I finally got to start thinking about putting new brake lines in it, and brake wheel cylinders. Everything works as is, but the system is un-bleedable due to snapped off bleeders, and the lines are getting rusted beyond my likeing.

[rang-a-stang]

Eastwood's Rust encapsulator (http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-bla...over-rust.html)has worked well for me. The floors in the back of my Falcon wagon looked just like yours when I did them. I wire brushed them to get the bubbly stuff off, then used it. They looked the same for the 8 years I owned the car (it stopped the dead).

If you use it FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS! Drives me nuts when people use it then complain about it because it didn't hold up, yet they didn't follow the directions for applications or dry time.

[Cherokeeowner]

Was your XJ ever undercoated? Mine is in great shape underneath for being a daily driver for 16.5 years... But, mine was properly undercoated, unlike my rotted Wag.

I finally got to start thinking about putting new brake lines in it, and brake wheel cylinders. Everything works as is, but the system is un-bleedable due to snapped off bleeders, and the lines are getting rusted beyond my liking.

No, it was never undercoated, big mistake on my part. My main issue is the floor, my bleeders still break loose and most bolts can still be removed.

It was a daily driver and then I managed to wrangle a company truck. I was going to go through the Jeep but had to give back the truck so the XJ ended up back on the road. That was years ago. I'm trying to get the XJ to the 250,000 mile mark so I can get my license plate frame from Jeep. I may just find another XJ from out of state with less miles and put my lift and tires on it. That one I will undercoat.


What type did of undercoating you have put on? My father had an 1992 Ford that he had a local guy undercoat. It was soft and melted a little when the truck would get hot in summer. The stuff worked great and the truck held up despite the dirt roads and his penchant for not washing his truck. The guy retired, closed his shop and none of us can remember what brand of undercoating it was.

[ZackN920]

Whoop's!, forgot to get back to this!

Wow, 250K miles. and I thought I was high being around 180K.

Unfortunately I don't know what kind it is. It was on it when I bought the Jeep 4 years ago. My stuff stays hard, seems rubbery... It's just finally starting to come off in places. I might clean it up, and re-apply some new rubber type of undercoating on it, when I do my body work. I have some stuff in a can I picked up from Walmart that I used on my Dakota's rear wheel well when I fixed the rot/rust out, that it had. I liked the way it went on, and it seems allright....But Ive only had that truck back on the road for a month now soooooo..........

Just out of curiosity, How's your XJ's roof? Mines rotted out. I think I have some pin holes. I'll find out later with the wire wheel...

[TexasJ10]

Rust encapsulation has worked for me as well, but make sure that the underside is treated on your deep rust spots as well. Rust will come through both sides if you are not careful. Wait for Eastwood to put it on sale though. Their $20 can goes down to $15 sometimes.

[tgreese]

The Permatex product works pretty well.

https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-81773-Rust-Treatment-oz/dp/B000HBNX38/ref=pd_sim_60_12?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B000HBNX38&pd_rd_r=0J39VMN1MMM7SHK1AA0D&pd_rd_w=xL7W3&pd_rd_wg=CWBnZ&psc=1&refRID=0J39VMN1MMM7SHK1AA0D

This product has a plastic-like ("polymer" ... latex?) base, and needs to be painted over when dry.

I like Aluthane too ... but at $40/qt plus shipping, I don't know if it qualifies as "inexpensive." http://www.epoxyproducts.com/aluthane.html I believe all the "rust encapsulating" paints are some form of moisture cured urethane (MCU), and Aluthane is a good one.

Note that the MCUs are extremely moisture sensitive, and will set up into a block of plastic if exposed to the air much. I punch a little hole in the top of my Aluthane can, and squeeze out what I need to a paper cup. Apply with a flux or chip brush, and discard afterwards. Seal the hole with a sheet metal screw.

[Cherokeeowner]

Whoop's!, forgot to get back to this!

Wow, 250K miles. and I thought I was high being around 180K.

Unfortunately I don't know what kind it is. It was on it when I bought the Jeep 4 years ago. My stuff stays hard, seems rubbery... It's just finally starting to come off in places. I might clean it up, and re-apply some new rubber type of undercoating on it, when I do my body work. I have some stuff in a can I picked up from Walmart that I used on my Dakota's rear wheel well when I fixed the rot/rust out, that it had. I liked the way it went on, and it seems allright....But Ive only had that truck back on the road for a month now soooooo..........

Just out of curiosity, How's your XJ's roof? Mines rotted out. I think I have some pin holes. I'll find out later with the wire wheel...

Roof is fine, it's the sunroof. It leaks so I had to seal it up.

[Mr Carts]

OSPHO

http://www.ospho.com/

[WrenchMonkey]

Well I can speak a little more towards this issue now that I've tried a few more products...


This is what floor support rails looked like before I did anything to them (besides ripping the floor out)



This is before and after wire wheeling the roof...


After wire wheeling the floor supports



The roof after using OSPHO, once


The roof after OSPHO, round two


The floor rail after Ospho, round 2,


And after degreasing prep for paint,


OSPHO is phosphoric acid (with some gelling agents to prevent evaporation and increase the working time of the substance) and converts iron oxide to iron phosphate ( also known as mill scale), which is tougher than nails. It's relatively superficial, hence the multiple use process, and where it reacts with rust there is a white dusty substance left behind that does require some attention before paint, so it's still a labor intensive process... but no where near as bad as literally removing all rust.

The pictures don't quite do the rails justice, those real plain off grey spots that are the majority of the rails (now) are practically new looking bare metal... And that bottom right corner was clearly and significantly pitted... getting the white crap out of those pits is damn near impossible.. but otherwise it SEEMS to be nearly free of any evidence of rust..

Last night I coated the frame rails in "Rust Reformer" by "Iron Armor" which goes on clear but supposedly turns to black (like OSPHO) (which I didn't realize when I bought it, I thought it was more along the lines of an encapsulator...) and I just sprayed the rails last night, I'm gonna run out and see what happened overnight and take a picture for yall ...


it wasn't worth taking a picture.. it looks a little shinier... like it was a clear coat at best.. I should mention I bought that particular product at harbor freight...

so, Ospho is pretty good, in some respects, but of course it'll be the long term condition of the paint I use over it that will really be the judge of how well it truly works.. just some input for ya'lls perusal..