New Wagoneers

[sierrablue]

I'm probably poking a bear here, but what do you guys think of the new Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneers? I thought it was cool when I saw a pre-production Grand Wagoneer being cold weather tested (in early December I think it was), but that was just because I've had two Wagoneers and seeing a brand new one in pre-production was just really cool. But in reality they're way too big on the outside, and entertainment centers on wheels. Not my kind of thing. And the owners are people that aren't really into it enough to smile or wave when an original (Kaiser era even)(I know, it's not an early Kaiser rig) Wagoneer passes them. Not that they're bad people, it's just disappointing that they don't know. Frankly I think they should've killed the Cherokee/Grand Cherokee and renamed them the Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer to eliminate the name that some would consider offensive. But that's just me.

So what's the general consensus on here? Do they qualify as FSJs? On the outside they're way bigger than ours(I have pics of them together, 50 years apart)(think Hagerty would pay me to compare them? )...and ours were barely full sized to start with (all four wheels fit inside my dad's '70s F100)...I'm just wondering what everyone here is thinking.

[ProTouring442]

They aren't FSJs for the simple fact they are built on a different platform.

Many here malign them for being built for today's market (too plush, too expensive, no solid axles, etc). I think they're amazing vehicles full of technology and luxury. I don't want one, and I couldn't afford the top of the line Wagoneers anyway, but they're still pretty incredible machines.

[Crankyolman]

My personal opinion is they are ugly. They have all the exterior styling of a 1988 minivan...seriously!


Look






Really Fiat!!! A hundred thousand dollars and that's the best you could do!?!?! On top of that available paint choices suck!


Maybe they are nice inside and luxurious to drive, I don't know, but they really missed the mark in the looks department.

[goldhammer]

One time I was a rover in a poker run in the dunes. When people started out they're would ask what rover was in. Told them to tell them the original yuppie grocery getter, you'll know it when you see it. They all were laughing when they came to me.

This version has got to be the poorest example of a Jeep ever put on the market. 99.9%, the only dirt or gravel they will ever see is an unpaved driveway.

Worst move since the new Cherokee.

[sierrablue]

I don't want to be too critical here, but I just looked up the fuel mileage on the new ones. They're advertising 13 city, 19 highway, to come out to 15 combined. This is on the rear-wheel-drive, not even the all-wheel-drive! So you pay $100,000 for a new, massive luxury SUV, and then you get margionally better mileage (1-2 mpg than a stock Wag with the V8 and automatic) than a 50-year-old Wagoneer...and if you added an overdrive to a nice $15,000 old Waggy, you'd be right there with them the whole time. I know the old one's not a rolling entertainment center, but it gets way more style points and is easily...for about 1/5 the cost. And you fit in parking spaces and on trails I'm sure they run and drive fine, I just don't really understand the appeal.

[stonehengeheels]

My personal opinion is they are ugly. They have all the exterior styling of a 1988 minivan...seriously!


Look






Really Fiat!!! A hundred thousand dollars and that's the best you could do!?!?! On top of that available paint choices suck!


Maybe they are nice inside and luxurious to drive, I don't know, but they really missed the mark in the looks department.

Tahoe look alike, maybe worse. On the other hand my friend has the Cherokee Hemi and loves it.

[MysticRob]

New wagoneers have the lamest looking side windows too. Rear passenger windows look like the entire door is upside down, and the cargo windows with that stupid little angle at the bottom look like a failed attempt to make it look sleek, instead of like the shoe box it is. Massive fail.

[rang-a-stang]

I don't hate them and I hope they sell extremely well. I won't be able to afford one until they are 35 years old, rusty, 250k miles, missing parts, and barely run anyway.

IMHO, they ARE a Full Size Jeep (FSJ) because they are Jeeps and they are full size but they are not SJs because they are not a member of the SJ family. I cannot see anyone buying one and looking to our community for love, though. Just like you don't see JT folks on here looking for Gladiator loves.

I wish Jeep would have thrown us more of a bone with some sort of logo, or styling que. I read that the wood trim they have is supposed to be a bit of a throwback and supposedly the grill has some style influenced by the final edition Grand Wagoneer grill but I am not sure I see it. I wouldn't expect Jeep to make a hard core retro Grand Wagoneer but maybe a script, or hood accent line, or a silohuette or something would have been cool.

I think they should should do a "Rhino Edition" with front/rear solid axles, a unique grill, manually shifted transfer case, rubber floors, vinyl seat covers, maybe some fender flares, etc. Kind of the Rubicon edition of the GW, but with some throwback flair, too.

[sierrablue]

I don't hate them and I hope they sell extremely well. I won't be able to afford one until they are 35 years old, rusty, 250k miles, missing parts, and barely run anyway.

IMHO, they ARE a Full Size Jeep (FSJ) because they are Jeeps and they are full size but they are not SJs because they are not a member of the SJ family. I cannot see anyone buying one and looking to our community for love, though. Just like you don't see JT folks on here looking for Gladiator loves.

I wish Jeep would have thrown us more of a bone with some sort of logo, or styling que. I read that the wood trim they have is supposed to be a bit of a throwback and supposedly the grill has some style influenced by the final edition Grand Wagoneer grill but I am not sure I see it. I wouldn't expect Jeep to make a hard core retro Grand Wagoneer but maybe a script, or hood accent line, or a silohuette or something would have been cool.

I think they should should do a "Rhino Edition" with front/rear solid axles, a unique grill, manually shifted transfer case, rubber floors, vinyl seat covers, maybe some fender flares, etc. Kind of the Rubicon edition of the GW, but with some throwback flair, too.

Interesting that the grille is supposed to be like the GW grille. I was thinking it maybe resembled the muscle grille the '80s SJ Cherokees and J-trucks got...

As cool as the Rhino edition would be, I suspect their response would be either "buy a Wrangler Unlimited" or "Buy a Galdiator and put a topper on it". But it would be much cooler if it had some throwbacks and/or actual mechanical components instead of everything being electronic, I agree. Of course, that wouldn't fix the fact that they still don't fit in like any parking spaces around here...even mine is the same length as a lot of the parking spaces around here. One reason I'm glad I don't drive a full sized truck...

[AM Woody]

They said they weren't doing a retro-inspired design, but I think the greatest thing about the original SJ is the proportions. That is one aspect they could have run with. The new one is just too visually heavy and slab sided.

I did get to test drive a couple of them for work. I liked the Wagoneer with the smaller wheels and smaller engine better than the Grand Wagoneer. The Wagoneer has a more trucky feel; the Grand Wagoneer is super quiet, no road feel, like a Rolls-Royce or something

[melford1972]

I think Chrysler first started talking about the new Wagoneer almost a decade ago. And I have to believe that the design was probably mostly done by then. IIRC that was pre-FCA. And now Jeep is owned by Stellantis.

With all of the corporate shuffling and reshuffling that has happened with Jeep in recent years, I can only imagine how many different managers and bean counters have had their hand in shaping what the Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer became. So I imagine that is why the new Wagoneers feel so soulless.

Personally, I think the design already looks dated. You can kind of tell it was probably designed in the early part of the 2010s. Way too slab-sided. What is with that D pillar? They could have done something cool and given a nod to the original Brooks Stevens-designed Wagoneer. But instead, they alluded to the D pillar of the...Jeep Renegade? (Which was first released in 2014. Coincidence?)

I sat in a few of these during press day at the LA Auto Show and they are pretty much what most people have said. Loaded, luxury yachts/entertainment systems on wheels that have zero to do with the FSJs we love.

If I was part of the target market for one of these things (and I am NOT), I think I would probably spend my money elsewhere. An ICE-powered land barge that gets 10-15mpg might sell some units in the first year or two based on the nostalgic Wagoneer nameplate. But after that, I think sales will fall off a cliff, as customers in this market will become more accustomed to idea of electric drivetrains.

[FSJunkie]

I think of it the same way I think of most modern vehicles: excessively large, unnecessarily complicated, overpowered, and obnoxiously styled. Just gross excess all around.

[SJTD]

http://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=190211

[JPSwapMohn]

I am not the target market for these, but I prefer the lines of the newer Yukon/Tahoe.
I did see one with the woodgrain treatment (from Wagonmaster, I believe..). It helped give the thing some character.
I agree with other comments. The interior is quite nice, but I don't dig the 12 or however many screens are stuffed into it. I know that is the thing these days, but I wince at the potential electrical/software issues that may result. But then again, I spent days trying to overcome the CANBUS in the 09 Overland GC seats that I put in my wagoneer.. so take that for what it is worth.


I also don't think it will survive over the next few years. I think sales are pretty low already. Not sure how trustworthy it is, but carfigures.com indicates they have sold less than 6000 so far.