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  #21  
Old 05-24-2011, 12:26 PM
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davidrussell74 davidrussell74 is offline
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Fuel Injection Howell Cost?

Does anyone know about how much I would pay a mechanic when all is said and done to install a Howell EFI in my 83 Cherokee, Inline 6, 258?
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  #22  
Old 05-24-2011, 01:57 PM
cincyjeeprs cincyjeeprs is offline
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IF, all you have him do is install the system as designed, it is 4-6 hour job for a pro. If you need new fuel lines, if your tank is full of rust, if you need him to clean up a lot of extraneous PO wiring, if,if,if...you know what I mean. Also depends on how neat you want the beyond the firewall wiring. You can spend a lot of time finding a home for all that stuff. You will also need a new/different air filter assembly.

It is really a simple, straightforward install. If I can do, anybody can. Mine is on a Scrambler and I love it.
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  #23  
Old 05-25-2011, 09:17 AM
FSJ Guy FSJ Guy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidrussell74
Does anyone know about how much I would pay a mechanic when all is said and done to install a Howell EFI in my 83 Cherokee, Inline 6, 258?

If you can install a stereo, you can install a Howell TBI kit.

I'd expect on average, up to 8 hrs of labor plus misc. shop charges. Esp if the mechanic has never done one before. They'll be learning on your dime.
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  #24  
Old 05-25-2011, 11:33 AM
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seventynine seventynine is offline
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Worth it is relative. You won't really see any increase in fuel mileage so you won't save much if any on gas....and certainly not if you consider how many miles you'd have to drive to make up for the cost of buying/installing the kit.

If you are looking for realiable fuel delivery off road at all angles it's worth every penny!

I have a Pro-Jection TBI kit on the 360 in my rock crawler and it has performed flawlessly for 9 years. I've flopped it twice and I had to remember to turn the engine off both times.

Sure cold starts will be easier with fuel injection but once you get used to the technique involved in starting a carb it's perfectly reliable. Your right foot just gets more excersize I'm a drummer so I just look at as aerobic conditioning for my bass drum foot
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  #25  
Old 05-25-2011, 07:31 PM
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Serious Johnson Serious Johnson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Guilbeau
...
Carry a spare Throttle Position Sensor at all times, these fail with daily driving about once every 2 years or so, or if they get wet...

Joe:

I don't doubt that this is good advice, but I think you may have overstated things a bit. My regular drive involves some pretty gnarly water crossings, and I've been known to indiscriminately spritz the engine at the car wash. I've not yet had a TPS failure on this Jeep in 7 years. It'll probably happen tomorrow.

S.J.
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360, .030-over, K8600 cam, Crane springs, ported heads, Edelbrock Performer, G.M. TBI, TFI, 3" exhaust,
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  #26  
Old 05-25-2011, 07:47 PM
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Serious Johnson Serious Johnson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventynine
Worth it is relative. You won't really see any increase in fuel mileage so you won't save much if any on gas....and certainly not if you consider how many miles you'd have to drive to make up for the cost of buying/installing the kit....

I'd say that you can save considerable fuel with EFI unless you're stuck with a slushbox tranny, and then there's not much that will help. Just running at near optimal fuel/ignition points regardless of temperature, altitude & load makes a big difference. I've topped 20 MPG a few times in a Wagoneer with a hotrod 360 and 3.73 gears, and doubt that I could have achieved that with a carburetor & distributor pinned at one particular performance point. It may be less important for someone in tropical climes with little altitude change, but it makes a world of difference on a mountain Jeep.

S.J.
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"Carpe Mañana".

'83 Wagoneer
360, .030-over, K8600 cam, Crane springs, ported heads, Edelbrock Performer, G.M. TBI, TFI, 3" exhaust,
T-18a/208, D44/AMC 20 w/ limited slip in both, 3.73s, 33s, BDS 4" springs, Rancho 9000 shocks, etc., etc.
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  #27  
Old 05-25-2011, 08:55 PM
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fullsizejeepfreak fullsizejeepfreak is offline
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YES!!

OOOHHH SOOO worth it! My wife's daily driver hasn't needed anything since the conversion. It's like driving...a "normal" car (except for the growl). Turn the key to start ONCE for about 3 or 4 seconds (without TOUCHING the gas, dead cold) and it lives! Any subsequent starting, you need to be quick with the key, it starts IMMEDIATELY. Touch it, it goes, let off..it idles. It's like you couldn't PAY it to come off 700 rpm at an idle, in gear... I LOVE HOWELL!! We cruise around between 4000 & 9500 feet without noticing any difference at all. Obviously I have had a very pleasant experience and there are certainly nay sayers on any topic, but yes, YOU can install this if you can install a stereo. And yes, noticeable milage improvement; no exact figure as I decided not to worry about keeping track of such silly things when I decided to love wagoneers....does that make me a realist?
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Last edited by fullsizejeepfreak : 05-25-2011 at 08:57 PM.
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  #28  
Old 05-26-2011, 08:12 AM
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Thomas792 Thomas792 is offline
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Location: Woodbridge, VA
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I installed a Howell system on my 83 CJ7 258 in 1996. I was able to pull to around 5500 rpm vice the 4500 rpm with the sickly BBD carb. Running through the city streets of SoCal I no longer had to do the shifting 2->3->4->3->2 to get over the slight hills here and there. With the Howell I just left it in 3rd and gave it a bit more gas.

I had it for 5 years and loved it. the only problem I had was the adapter and one of the holes needed to be plugged up after I installed it on the intake manifold as it would let the tiniest amount of air slip past the TB.

I took me two days but I didn't know too much about vehicles back then.
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  #29  
Old 06-09-2011, 11:34 AM
MikeinColorado MikeinColorado is offline
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This is a great read. I am enjoying the various viewpoints.
I have an 88 wagoneer, I was thinking of piecing together a junkyard tbi set up. Do you guys have a good list of parts?
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  #30  
Old 06-09-2011, 08:41 PM
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jaber jaber is offline
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The one I have trusted...

FUEL INJECTION FAQ--Start Here!!!!! - Binder Planet Forums

GM Wiring Harness (octopus) - Binder Planet Forums

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  #31  
Old 06-16-2011, 10:59 PM
ajminla ajminla is offline
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Does EFI help emissions at all?

Using GWs as DDs in Southern California. I won't ever do any wheeling nor much altitude driving. So other than cold start and possibly some mileage help, does installing EFI help your emissions? Would it make a GW less of a polluter?
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  #32  
Old 07-10-2011, 09:37 AM
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fullsizejeepfreak fullsizejeepfreak is offline
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if you use less gas and everything is being constantly regulated and tweaked by the computer it stands to reason the emissions would be better. I can definately say even though my system was built for a 401 and is currently running on a 360, there's not as much eye watering when you stand out back while it's running, if ya know what I mean.
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  #33  
Old 07-17-2011, 02:57 PM
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billyj7175 billyj7175 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajminla
Using GWs as DDs in Southern California. I won't ever do any wheeling nor much altitude driving. So other than cold start and possibly some mileage help, does installing EFI help your emissions? Would it make a GW less of a polluter?

Yes...

The problem is, you'll need a CARB compliant system. As stupid as it is, even if the TBI system reduces emissions to passable levels, if it isn't CARB certified, it won't pass...
IIRC, it costs somewhere around $25-30k to get a system tested by the CARB folks...sorta seems like they're more interested in making $ than reducing emissions huh?

The Howell setup is certified btw.
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  #34  
Old 07-17-2011, 04:05 PM
fasteddy fasteddy is offline
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I used to be a carb pro. I tuned Holleys, AFB's, Webers, Solexes, Mikunis, Kehins. I hate all carbs. All carbs are voodoo. If the altitude changes by 500', you need to retune. Temp change? Retune. Humidity change? Retune. I had about a thousand Holley jets, and more Weber jets than that, not to mention emulsion tubes, air bleeds, power valves, secondary diaphragm springs, accel pump springs, and bushel basket full of fuel bowl gaskets, and about 5 gallons of fuel bowl gasket remover.

I don't even have to get gas up my nose or dumjp fuel all over the manifold to tune FI, and if I brake on a steep downhill, I don't slosh fuel over the dam between the fuel bowl and the barrels and flood the motor out, and I don't lean out half the cylinders in a corner. Not to mention not having to compromise on intake runner routing to reach the carb, or have a hot spot in the runners to vaporize the fuel the carb didn't do too good a job on.

In short, carbs suck...

Of course, you have to remember, I hate carbs, so I'm prejudiced.
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  #35  
Old 07-18-2011, 10:29 AM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajminla
Using GWs as DDs in Southern California. I won't ever do any wheeling nor much altitude driving. So other than cold start and possibly some mileage help, does installing EFI help your emissions? Would it make a GW less of a polluter?

If my car were worth more than a few thousand dollars, in CA it would be worthwhile to buy the Howell kit and install their CARB-compliant EFI. Not only would it be cleaner, but I would get a big improvement in reliability. Carbs are fiddly, fractious devices that do not age well (see above post!) and electronics and electric servo-driven devices are much simpler and sturdier than all the vacuum-driven monkey motion needed to make a carburetor emissions compliant - and still driveable.
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Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
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  #36  
Old 07-18-2011, 10:34 AM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fasteddy
I used to be a carb pro. I tuned Holleys, AFB's, Webers, Solexes, Mikunis, Kehins. I hate all carbs. All carbs are voodoo. If the altitude changes by 500', you need to retune. Temp change? Retune. Humidity change? Retune. I had about a thousand Holley jets, and more Weber jets than that, not to mention emulsion tubes, air bleeds, power valves, secondary diaphragm springs, accel pump springs, and bushel basket full of fuel bowl gaskets, and about 5 gallons of fuel bowl gasket remover.

I don't even have to get gas up my nose or dumjp fuel all over the manifold to tune FI, and if I brake on a steep downhill, I don't slosh fuel over the dam between the fuel bowl and the barrels and flood the motor out, and I don't lean out half the cylinders in a corner. Not to mention not having to compromise on intake runner routing to reach the carb, or have a hot spot in the runners to vaporize the fuel the carb didn't do too good a job on.

In short, carbs suck...

Of course, you have to remember, I hate carbs, so I'm prejudiced.

Yes, carbs are a pain. They wear out, and go out of adjustment easily. Electronics/computers are much simpler and more reliable than any vacuum-powered mechanical system. In the day, vacuum power was all they had ...
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Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
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  #37  
Old 07-18-2011, 11:23 AM
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seventynine seventynine is offline
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As I mentioned in an earlier post the Pro-Jection TBI I have on one of my 360s has run great for 9 years. The only constant problem I have had is rotting fuel lines. I replaced every bit of fuel line back when I did the swap and I have had to replace all of the rubber lines twice since then.

I've heard that the ethanol in the fuel these days breaks down the rubber fuel lines quickly. And because of the higher fuel pressure with fuel injection...any tiny crack will make you loose fuel pressure. I haven't noticed it causing as many problems with my carbureted Jeeps.
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  #38  
Old 07-18-2011, 11:50 AM
Blake Blake is offline
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I recently completed the 2011 Ultimate Adventure with my trusty Holley TA. I had no problems whatsoever other than the minor inconvenience of having to re-jet (takes about 5-10 minutes). It did idle a little erratic until I got the mixture screws adjusted right. I re-jetted it to the stock Jets on the way down to MO. Then again on the way back to CO. I was only one of two folks running carbs and both were Holley TA.

Other guys were running 'fancy' FI conversions and I think they all had some sort of problems. Most of the problems the FI guys were having were vapor lock and fuel pump issues. This was brought on by the high heat.

I'm not planning a FI conversion any time soon
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  #39  
Old 07-18-2011, 12:38 PM
Blake Blake is offline
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oh and I would like to add that my old carb got just as much, if not more MPG's than many other rigs (all were FI).

It was kinda obvious when there would be 20+ rigs all stopping for gas at the same time. The old Honcho with big tires, deep gears and a carb held it's own.

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  #40  
Old 07-18-2011, 03:55 PM
FSJ Guy FSJ Guy is offline
 
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Sounds like you have your carb dialed in really well!

Temps in SlushPuppy hit 220+ today sitting in traffic idling. They dropped down quickly once I hit 40-45 mph. No vapor lock, however. That's weird that some FI trucks had problems with that. Maybe they were running non-stock systems. <shrug>
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