Is the fuel injection conversion worth it?

[Daddio]

Originally Posted by seventynine

I replaced every bit of fuel line back when I did the swap and I have had to replace all of the rubber lines twice since then.

Did you bite the bullet and buy the 24k gold plated fuel injection hose? I did to the tune of almost $70 (and this still using the stock metal fuel line where I could). So far I haven't had any problems in almost 2 years.

[DenverWoody]

Originally Posted by davidrussell74

Does anyone know about how much I would pay a mechanic when all is said and done to install a Howell EFI in my 83 Cherokee, Inline 6, 258?

Reviving this thread, as this seems to be an increasingly common topic on this and other forums.

I was recently quoted around $3k by a VERY reputable Denver-area Jeep mechanic for a Howell TBI conversion. This includes the kit (smog legal version), with tuning and all the fixins. Considering it, as the long-term peace of mind, reliability, and drive-ability of EFI sound worth it, particularly when I'm still recovering from my Wag stalling in an intersection during morning rush hour.

Members on this board who have the time and experience for the junkyard/ DIY approach, please refrain from flaming or suggesting that I buy a Prius.

[babywag]

Originally Posted by DenverWoody

Reviving this thread, as this seems to be an increasingly common topic on this and other forums.

I was recently quoted around $3k by a VERY reputable Denver-area Jeep mechanic for a Howell TBI conversion. This includes the kit (smog legal version), with tuning and all the fixins. Considering it, as the long-term peace of mind, reliability, and drive-ability of EFI sound worth it, particularly when I'm still recovering from my Wag stalling in an intersection during morning rush hour.

Members on this board who have the time and experience for the junkyard/ DIY approach, please refrain from flaming or suggesting that I buy a Prius.

Howell TBI isn't a magic fix all, if you currently have fuel delivery issues, or ignition issues, or electrical issues you will still have them.
Fix your current problems(before converting), or be prepared to spend a bunch more $$$.

[1979cherokee]

I have a Chevy system in my cherokee and it work great and no flaws. i you drive your rig in the winter it make a big difference than bring carb'd.

[vajeepj20]

Originally Posted by DenverWoody

Reviving this thread, as this seems to be an increasingly common topic on this and other forums.

I was recently quoted around $3k by a VERY reputable Denver-area Jeep mechanic for a Howell TBI conversion. This includes the kit (smog legal version), with tuning and all the fixins. Considering it, as the long-term peace of mind, reliability, and drive-ability of EFI sound worth it, particularly when I'm still recovering from my Wag stalling in an intersection during morning rush hour.

Members on this board who have the time and experience for the junkyard/ DIY approach, please refrain from flaming or suggesting that I buy a Prius.

Collin's Brothers Jeep sells the Howell Emission Legal kit on Ebay for $1399.95 + $21.45 shipping = $1421.40 total. If you choose to buy from them make sure you let them know what year, model, and engine size you're getting the kit for. They don't ask, and I idiotically didn't think to tell them, so I unfortunately got the wrong kit. Instead of getting the 360 kit I was sent one for a 304, which has smaller injectors and a different cal-prom. Howell was great about fixing the issue. Collins Brothers is just a drop shipper, the kit comes directly from Howell.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250671388427?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageNa me=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

BJ's sells it for $1450 plus shipping. Members here can get a 15% discount if you drop them an email and let them know you're a IFSJA member. I kind of doubt that the 15% discount can be used on the Howell kit though, if it can, that would be a great deal. If I would have bought my kit from them it would have saved me a lot of time and hassle.

http://www.bjsoffroad.com/Howell-Fue...gal_p_550.html

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=74030

I just got finished installing the Howell Emissions kit on my '85 J20. It runs great but I did a good little bit of modifying to the kit, extending wires here, extending wires there. Since I have no room whatsoever under my dash (factory air), I ended up mounting the ECM in a box under the hood. An old military 20mm ammo can I've had for years came in handy, and worked perfectly.

The kit is straight forward and fairly easy to install. You will need to weld in the oxygen sensor bung in your exhaust. If you decide to do it yourself and don't have a welder, or someone to do it for you, you can take off your Y pipe, and take it to a muffler shop and get them to weld it on. The only tuning you might want to do is check your engine timing, the EFI kit needs no tuning, it has a basic program, and it learns and adjust as it goes. As for other parts, you'll need a 12vdc red LED light for the check engine light. It's a little disappointing they don't supply one with the kit. When Radio Shack was around you could get one fairly cheaply, I had to go to Autozone and spend $10 for one some little Chinese kid was probably paid .25 to make. Other than that, you'll probably need vacuum hose, size adapters for the hose, some wire, and a wire ring terminal or two.

The only other thing to do is mount the fuel pump and filter, run the hoses and wire it up. One last minor disappointment with the kit is, they provide an offset stud for the throttle body to mount your air cleaner, but no nut. Your stock stud is 1/4" x 20, the one with the kit is 8mm x 1.25. Another trip to the hardware store. Oh, one more thing, my truck has cruise control, and the throttle body with the kit has no provision for hooking it up so I had to make an attachment point for it, same for the transmission TVS cable. For the throttle cable hook up, I bought a Holley carburetor stud kit. Actually, even one more thing, you'll need a bracket for the MAP sensor. I thought about hitting the junk yard for a factory one, but ended up making one out of some sheet metal I had laying around. For roughly $1500, I think this little part should be included in the kit as well.

Like babywag said, make sure everything is working okay before the swap, and it should go smooth. I did have one of the carburetor heater tube plate bolts break off, so I had to drill it out and re-tap it, which was kind of a pain in the butt, but for a thirty year old vehicle that can be expected.

If I was close to you I'd gladly give you a hand installing it, but I'm half a country away from you. It is sweet, once installed, I turned the key, it fired right up and purred like a kitten.

You just have to decide if you're able, or willing to install it yourself, or if it's worth paying $1500+ to have it installed. Info help is here if you need it.

[BigOberg]

I did the Howell conversion on my 1989 Grand Wagoneer and I couldn't be happier. It starts right up and it idles perfectly. Last week I had it inspected and it breezed through NJ State Inspection Emissions which is no easy task! IMHO it was way worth the money

[cjsrebiff]

I put a Howell kit on my 84 GW 360. I ordered in straight from Howell. They asked all the pertinent questions and the installation was quite smooth. The instructions are very detailed, but are a one size fits all, which is understandable. I have a full MSD ignition and needed to put the coil wire in a different place. I called and talked to Rob and he got me straight. Starts and runs great. Another note I had all parts mentioned above that were not included in some (air cleaner wing nut, etc).
Do make sure you know your engine specs, as in rebuilt, manifold, ignition. All these matter in the system they send.
I would not pay a mechanic to do it. It is remarkably easy. Just go slow and dont skip.
And yes, make sure you are running right first.

[DenverWoody]

Originally Posted by BigOberg

I did the Howell conversion on my 1989 Grand Wagoneer and I couldn't be happier. It starts right up and it idles perfectly. Last week I had it inspected and it breezed through NJ State Inspection Emissions which is no easy task! IMHO it was way worth the money

Lots to like about the Howell kit, apparently. If you installed it yourself, what's your level of mechanical expertise? If you had a shop do it (and you don't mind me asking) what did you pay for installation?

Thanks!

[BigOberg]

Originally Posted by DenverWoody

Lots to like about the Howell kit, apparently. If you installed it yourself, what's your level of mechanical expertise? If you had a shop do it (and you don't mind me asking) what did you pay for installation?

Thanks!

I installed the entire kit myself. It's not that bad. Just read over the installation instructions about 100 times before you attemp it. Do things in groups. Old parts removal, hardware installation, plumbing and then all of the wiring. There are a few things you'll need to fab up like your throttle linkage and transmission kickdown. Also if you don't have a welder or can't weld you could get someone or a shop to weld in your O2 bung for you. As long as you take your time and just follow the instructions and check things off of the list as you go you'll be done and running in no time. When I have the time I plan on writing up an in depth Howell installation thread complete with pics. I purposely breezed over it in my build thread because I had always planned on doing it seperately for the site. There's a lot of good info in a ton of different posts on here that did help me in my install but not one post that goes through it all. After months of researching on here and other sites I figured it all out and installed mine without a hitch. I drive it daily now and it has been great

[eskimokodiak]

My 1978 Cherokee Chief with a 401 engine runs out of gas at half tank.

But does start back up until the next stop light when it dies again upon acceleration.

Have the howell setup, new tank, new pump, new sending unit, and new pick up tube.

I have been told the following:
No baffles so it sucks air.

Have you heard of this before.

I would appreciate and info that you can give me or point me to.

Thanks in advance.

[MysticRob]

Originally Posted by eskimokodiak

My 1978 Cherokee Chief with a 401 engine runs out of gas at half tank.

But does start back up until the next stop light when it dies again upon acceleration.

Have the howell setup, new tank, new pump, new sending unit, and new pick up tube.

I have been told the following:
No baffles so it sucks air.

Have you heard of this before.

I would appreciate and info that you can give me or point me to.

Thanks in advance.

Sounds like your pick up tube isn't low enough to avoid fuel starvation. Have you looked into something like Holley's HydraMat?

[acct21]

Originally Posted by eskimokodiak

My 1978 Cherokee Chief with a 401 engine runs out of gas at half tank.

But does start back up until the next stop light when it dies again upon acceleration.

Have the howell setup, new tank, new pump, new sending unit, and new pick up tube.

I have been told the following:
No baffles so it sucks air.

Have you heard of this before.

I would appreciate and info that you can give me or point me to.

Thanks in advance.

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=186182

[babywag]

Originally Posted by acct21

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=186182

80-up totally different animal in every way.

Early tank pickups can be problematic for efi.
There is nothing to prevent fuel slosh other than keeping tank full all time.

Different ways to skin the cat.
Surge tank setup, mod tank with aftermarket pickup/pump solution, stuff a later model efi tank under the truck.

[Tripwire]

i thought a looooooong time ago there is a "mesh honeycomb kind of thing you can stuff down the sender opening to help relieve the issue? don't remember how they solved the float interference issue..............

[rang-a-stang]

Has it always done this or did it just start doing this at some point?

In my rig (stock 79 tank, no baffles), I just added to my stock pickup. The original pickup feeds my fuel pump and the new 3/8" line is the fuel return line. That green sock thing came with some crappy fuel pump i bought on Amazon.

I can run my tank to almost fumes and I almost never stall, even hard stops or hard cornering with a low tank. Do you use Tuner Pro to tune you system? If so, you can see a loss of fuel pressure in your BLMs and injector pulse width. If BLM goes really high and pulse width is almost the same, you are losing pressure. Also, you could look at your Battery Voltage. Maybe you are losing a ground.

If you do not have Tuner Pro, maybe you could add an inline fuel pressure gauge and video it while you drive. One of these:
http://www.rvmorsemachine.com/product.htm

[rang-a-stang]

Has it always done this or did it just start doing this at some point?

In my rig (stock 79 tank, no baffles), I just added to my stock pickup. The original pickup feeds my fuel pump and the new 3/8" line is the fuel return line. That green sock thing came with some crappy fuel pump i bought on Amazon.

I can run my tank to almost fumes and I almost never stall, even hard stops or hard cornering with a low tank. Do you use Tuner Pro to tune you system? If so, you can see a loss of fuel pressure in your BLMs and injector pulse width. If BLM goes really high and pulse width is almost the same, you are losing pressure. Also, you could look at your Battery Voltage. Maybe you are losing a ground.

If you do not have Tuner Pro, maybe you could add an inline fuel pressure gauge and video it while you drive. One of these:
http://www.rvmorsemachine.com/product.htm