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  #1  
Old 01-11-2007, 10:00 AM
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A-Haig A-Haig is offline
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Location: Wichita, Kansas
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fuel injection

I would like to convert my wagon to fuel injection but all I can find is an edelbrock injection kit for $2500, I was curios if anyone has done the same or if there is a cheaper setup. Or if there is a good way to go about doing this.
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  #2  
Old 01-11-2007, 10:06 AM
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orangecherokee orangecherokee is offline
 
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Holley Pro-jection. Tough as hell to tune but definitely do-able. Cost half of what Edelbrock wants.
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  #3  
Old 01-11-2007, 10:34 AM
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Sian09 Sian09 is offline
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Take a look at Howell TBI for the 360. Only about $1200.
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  #4  
Old 01-11-2007, 10:44 AM
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RAMBLINFSJ RAMBLINFSJ is offline
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Holley Pro-jection through Summit (Part Number# HLY-502-20S) is listed at $825.95.
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  #5  
Old 01-11-2007, 10:47 AM
grimgaunt grimgaunt is offline
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the best off the shelf system for the money (including a custom chip) is from

http://www.affordable-fuel-injection.com

At $950 for the setup it is based (like Howell) on the GM stock parts and takes about 2 hrs to install.

Buy a Throttle body off EBAY for $55, a ECU (727 or xxx747) for $25 and buy just the harness and chip from them ($320) and have a Complete setup (minus the fuel pump - another $50 from MacParts) for under $450

Last edited by grimgaunt : 01-11-2007 at 10:51 AM.
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  #6  
Old 01-11-2007, 11:13 AM
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A-Haig A-Haig is offline
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Hey, thanks that will save me some cash. its great advice from all of you guys
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  #7  
Old 01-11-2007, 11:36 AM
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For what it's worth I thought AFI was a good deal, but with their chip, my Wagon could hardly move out of its way. I emailed the bin (program on the chip) to another member who tried it and he had the same results. They also sent me incorrect wiring instructions for their tach filter and a mispinned harness that caused my check engine light to flash constantly. Months of frustration with their so called customer service led me just to dump their bin, and rewire the harness to get it running.

I now burn my own chips and if you go the DIY route I can probably help you with the chip for about $300 less than the price for the AFI chip & harness listed above unless you wanted to pay me $320.
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1975 Wagoneer DD
360 with large cap ecm controlled HEI, TBI EFI, Comp Cam 260H, Edelbrock Performer Intake, CS130 alt, 4 row radiator, S10 steering box, QT w/LO, WT 3.54 D44 axles. Rancho 9000X's, ~4" lift, Caddy rear discs.
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  #8  
Old 01-11-2007, 01:25 PM
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etjeep etjeep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Haig
I would like to convert my wagon to fuel injection but all I can find is an edelbrock injection kit for $2500, I was curios if anyone has done the same or if there is a cheaper setup. Or if there is a good way to go about doing this.

There are a couple of ways to go about fuel injection. IMO, a lot depends on what you want to get out of it. If all you want to do is squirt some juice into your intake, a Chevy TBI setup will probly do the trick. As others have pointed out, you can run the gammit cost wise from junkyard scrounging a TBI to a Howell or AFI setup to a Holley projection setup to an Edelbrock Multiport EFI setup, there may be others. I have heard plenty of success doing the TBI conversion for wheeling. There is also which I think several on this board have done successfully. You can also swap in an entire motor with MPFI like Carl on this board is.

As a matter of fact, I am in the final stages of converting my 401 to an Edelbrock MPFI system. I am glad you brought this up and I would be interested in hearing from others have done this conversion on their AMC motor, just to compare notes. I have seen a fair amount of bashing the Edelbrock system on the internet, on the AMC list and other places (I think due to cost/jealousy, not actual experience). Its such an easy conversion, even a monkey could install it. Surprisingly, I have yet to see any info on building an Edelbrock MPFI setup for an AMC motor.

Here are a couple gratuitous pics… http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2054770730069564115UVcNic
and
http://good-times.webshots.com/album/556534678NsFUUS

I apologize, my albums are a bit disorderly right now.

I started my build back in Sept of ’05. a real mechanic would have been done already. LOL. I had to work in Texas for 14 months (it killed me not to be able to wrench on my Jeep) and did I mention I have a Jeep, so there are 16 other things I am trying to get done at the same time. If you cut out the part where I was inactive, I probably have about 2 months of part time, but I did a lot of other stuff too.

When I thought about doing this conversion a few years back, I considered Holley projection, Howell, AFI as well as a home brew/junk yard setup. Based on my estimates at the time, I figured I would end up having at least $1000 into the conversion if I had to buy everything (even used). After thinking about this for a while, I determined if I took the home-brew ( AFI also gave me the impression it was borderline homebrew. Not trying to discredit, its just my impression) approach I would not be able to recover my investment in my pile of FI parts if I had to sell out.
I figured I could always sell a used Edelbrock system to one of the AMC muscle car guys if needed and recover a reasonable amount of my cost. I also don’t have a lot of time to scrounge the junk yards, so that influenced my decision as well.

Another thing to consider, is the other kits assume you will use your old intake, so IMO you will not really see any mileage or performance improvements since you are still using a wet runner, unless your engine was making some bad mileage and poor performance to begin with. I am expecting some mileage and power improvements on my 401 with the Edelbrock conversion. Most of the work is done, but in a few weeks I expect to fire it up and see how it does. Maybe the experts were right, maybe not…stay tuned.
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  #9  
Old 01-11-2007, 03:14 PM
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A-Haig A-Haig is offline
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Let me know how the edelbrock turns out, cause thats what ive more been leaning toward, all I really want is around 15mpg out of my truck with some nice performance. Sometime in the future I plan to do real rebuild and makeover on my 360 and add a supercharger.

P.S. etjeep your engine looks really good, I like it.
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  #10  
Old 01-11-2007, 04:02 PM
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etjeep etjeep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Haig
Let me know how the edelbrock turns out, cause thats what ive more been leaning toward, all I really want is around 15mpg out of my truck with some nice performance. Sometime in the future I plan to do real rebuild and makeover on my 360 and add a supercharger.

P.S. etjeep your engine looks really good, I like it.

If all you want is 15mpg, then maybe the TBI setup would be better and less cost. It sounds like you are in the process of doing your research before you chose a course....EFI, 360 makeover, supercharger......Guess what, these all have one thing in common....$$$
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  #11  
Old 01-11-2007, 10:10 PM
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Bigwood91 Bigwood91 is offline
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I bought a kit from customefis last year. I believe he has raised his price to $1200 for Jeep TBI because he is making his own throttle body, and using all new parts. I just got my Jeep running again due to some other issues, so I haven't had a chance to really check mileage, but so far its been running great.
CJ
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  #12  
Old 01-12-2007, 03:13 AM
Wagoneerlover Wagoneerlover is offline
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I will be keeping an eye on this thread. However I already decided on the DIY route. That way I can learn the ins and outs of the system while also setting it up to run with my engine. PB, I will be sending out a PM soon. I will probably need to get some info and notes etc as I almost have all the parts I need to begin the conversion to TB injection.
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89 Grand Wagoneer AMC 360 (Deceased)


Upgrades

1. Electric Radiator Fan 10/15/11
2. Cs-144 Alt 10/1/11




(Wip)
1. TBI
2. New fuel tank
3. AW-4 Transmission
4. Aluminum condensor
5. Custom Gauge Panel
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  #13  
Old 01-17-2007, 03:19 AM
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Cherokee-Kid Cherokee-Kid is offline
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YEEESSSSS! etjeep
This is the first Edelbrock system I've seen installed in a FSJ. Please keep us posted on your results. Let us know how long it takes to dial it in and your impressions on performance.

If cost were no object (ya right huh?) and you didn't want to have to program/tune a new EFI system; I'd look at a Mass-Flow brand setup. It's not a speed/density MAP sensor setup, ie manifold pressure and calc charts, but rather a direct incoming air mass MAF sensor setup. Now that someone is running (hopefully running soon at least) an Edelbrock system, I wanna hear of someone running a Mass-Flow system in a Jeep (on an AMC motor). Well, when pigs fly maybe I'll hear it because $3,750 is an awfully large chunk of change. Really, I don't know why they want so much for it either as they claim it uses off-the-shelf parts (which like the GM based TBI stuff might be an advantage over the Edelbrock). I did happen to notice it did NOT come with a fuel pump though.

Well sorry to digress. Seems to come down to the old balancing act of time and money vs. desired and expected performance. At least there are some options to be had for EFI now.
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  #14  
Old 01-25-2007, 06:35 PM
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azwagoneer80 azwagoneer80 is offline
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I just wanted to say how jealous I am, I've been researching different types of MPFI setups and I love the Edelbrock...just expensive. I can't wait to see the results!!
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  #15  
Old 01-25-2007, 07:36 PM
FSJ Guy FSJ Guy is offline
 
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Whenever someone asks, I always say Howell. $1200, EASY bolt in and it runs out of the box. No BINs to email back and forth and wait forever for.

When you call their phone #, you actually talk to someone who knows the system and can help you. I am very pleased with their customer service AND their product. I have it on both of my Jeeps.
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  #16  
Old 01-25-2007, 08:21 PM
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BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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I've done the Edelbrock MPEFI on my 1975 Chevy truck and essentially a junkyard TBI on my Jeep. The Edelbrock was super-simple. It's about the equivalent of changing the manifold and the wiring is easier than installing a radio. It works excellent. I've only had two issues. The manifold didn't seem like it was sealed at first (my fault) so I took it off and re-sealed it. The other was the o-ring water neck started leaking. I think that's just the o-ring being a bit too small. Easy fix. I'm getting about 12 mpg with a Summit cam (Edelbrock Performer copy). I think I could do better with a less performance oriented cam.

The junkyard TBI on the Jeep was a pain to install and get running. If I had it to do over again I'd go find the parts myself (or buy from one of the people who make kits that have a decent reputation) and not get a non-professional "kit" that a random internet person put together. It's running well now, but I'm only getting 10mpg driving it easy. I was getting 12-14mpg with the 2bbl carb. I haven't investigated turning up the timing more or other economy tricks. It's running near stoicheometry and at least I can start it up and DRIVE it now without waiting or worrying that it won't go.
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  #17  
Old 01-26-2007, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etjeep
Another thing to consider, is the other kits assume you will use your old intake, so IMO you will not really see any mileage or performance improvements since you are still using a wet runner, unless your engine was making some bad mileage and poor performance to begin with.

Please define 'wet runner' intake.
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Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
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  #18  
Old 01-26-2007, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgreese
Please define 'wet runner' intake.

It's where the gas & air frlow thru the intake (carb & TBI) versus a dry intake where the fuel is added at the end of the intake runner above the cylinder and only the air flows thru the runners (MPFI).
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1975 Wagoneer DD
360 with large cap ecm controlled HEI, TBI EFI, Comp Cam 260H, Edelbrock Performer Intake, CS130 alt, 4 row radiator, S10 steering box, QT w/LO, WT 3.54 D44 axles. Rancho 9000X's, ~4" lift, Caddy rear discs.
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