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  #1  
Old 05-18-2013, 02:51 PM
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capdaddy222 capdaddy222 is offline
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First Run ends with...

A tow home.
I got out in the woods with the wagoneer for the first time yesterday. I had so much fun testing the rig. It Performed great.


Storm Clouds on the horizon



Nice run up to the trail





Look at that articulation! 33's rubbed a very little. I havent trimmed any metal yet so I was happy.



Unfortunately, not much later, I had some serious trouble. Going up a long hill, traveling around 25 MPH The transmission completely toasted. I lost all power. The trans just stopped moving and the engine would rev free. A big puff of smoke surrounded me as I coasted to a stop. There was a small fire at the interface between the motor and transmission. Hit it with an extinguisher.


Had my buddy tow me to the top of the mountain where we got cell reception and waited for AAA.

It is back in the garage. But I dont know where to go from here. I am so dejected. Trans still has fluid, but it isnt red anymore. It smells burnt. I guess I am going to have to pull it.

Any way to pull the transmission without removing the engine?
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Last edited by capdaddy222 : 05-18-2013 at 02:53 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-18-2013, 03:15 PM
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svining svining is offline
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First, Think about what happened!

The Fire could have been a broken line, spewing on your cat. Don't get too depressed. I do know how you feel after a big let down. Hopefully the tranny isn't toasted, but there are plenty of good used ones around. Hang in there!






Quote:
Originally Posted by capdaddy222
A tow home.
I got out in the woods with the wagoneer for the first time yesterday. I had so much fun testing the rig. It Performed great.


Storm Clouds on the horizon



Nice run up to the trail





Look at that articulation! 33's rubbed a very little. I havent trimmed any metal yet so I was happy.



Unfortunately, not much later, I had some serious trouble. Going up a long hill, traveling around 25 MPH The transmission completely toasted. I lost all power. The trans just stopped moving and the engine would rev free. A big puff of smoke surrounded me as I coasted to a stop. There was a small fire at the interface between the motor and transmission. Hit it with an extinguisher.


Had my buddy tow me to the top of the mountain where we got cell reception and waited for AAA.

It is back in the garage. But I dont know where to go from here. I am so dejected. Trans still has fluid, but it isnt red anymore. It smells burnt. I guess I am going to have to pull it.

Any way to pull the transmission without removing the engine?
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  #3  
Old 05-18-2013, 03:16 PM
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pcoplin pcoplin is offline
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Bummer. Both toasted trans and a fire?

No problem pulling the trans, just support the oil pan with a jack and block of wood.
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  #4  
Old 05-18-2013, 03:30 PM
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blazer3664 blazer3664 is offline
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Bummer about the trans...... but at least you had an extinguisher handy for the fire. A fire like that can lead to a total loss of a beautiful rig very easily.

Shouldn't be hard to find a 727 or have yours rebuilt.
It will probably cost more than buying a used one, but I would have yours rebuilt by someone reputable. Then you KNOW you are putting a good trans back in, rather than having another one do the same in a couple months.

Your re-builder may have some tips on what caused it to fail as well, so you can fix any contributing issues (blocked cooler or filter, restricted line, ect...) if there are any.

Jim
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  #5  
Old 05-18-2013, 08:41 PM
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Overkill SC Overkill SC is offline
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Pretty odd to have the trans fail and have a fire. Is there still fluid in the trans? Did the cooler line break and spray it on the exhaust?

Yes, easier to pull the trans from underneath than pulling the motor.
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  #6  
Old 05-18-2013, 09:27 PM
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capdaddy222 capdaddy222 is offline
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I will have to research how to do the transmission pull. I havent crawled under to see what actually happened. The smell is ode de burned clutches though. My garage stinks pretty bad. I dont mind buying tools that I can keep around in order to do the swap. I assume a transmission jack is a nice to have? I wont have anyone else to help me manhandle those heavy components so if anyone has done this job single-handedly, please do share your experience.

Funds are the issue right now. So i guess the decision of rebuild or replace will be based on the lower cost option.
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360 Toasted TF727 NP228
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  #7  
Old 05-18-2013, 10:01 PM
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Overkill SC Overkill SC is offline
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If it did blow a line and empty the trans. I'd try fixing the line and filing it back up. th400s are pretty tough.

I'd definitely find some help to pull a trans. They are heavy and awkward as all heck.

Good luck.
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'85 J-10 RIP
'67 J Truck - anybody need a 327 or other parts?
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  #8  
Old 05-18-2013, 11:51 PM
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I'm wondering if you just lost your fluid, and that caused the slip. What is the level?
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  #9  
Old 05-19-2013, 12:22 AM
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Carnuck Carnuck is offline
 
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I lay odds the stock trans cooler in the rad is clogged solid. Same thing happened to my Eagle and my '84 J10 before I got them.
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  #10  
Old 05-19-2013, 12:25 PM
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capdaddy222 capdaddy222 is offline
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I just crawled under to get a first look.



The fire was coming out of the interface between the engine and trans bell housing. There is a leak that is emanating from that area. You can see the fluid that landed on the cross pipe of the exhaust.



So what should I do? Fill it back up and see If it will move? What can that hurt? I plan on pulling the pan to get a look inside. I dont know what that may tell me. I assume that if the clutches are toasted I will see some carnage in the trans pan.
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360 Toasted TF727 NP228
4" Lift
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"Shaggy" the Waggy

Last edited by capdaddy222 : 05-19-2013 at 12:28 PM.
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  #11  
Old 05-19-2013, 01:26 PM
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Chief Gunner Chief Gunner is offline
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You can easily pull the transmission out yourself with a little time and effort. Take your time and take note of where nuts and bolts go. I did mine not too long ago. I was able to get the transmission out in a day. I would put the bolts, nits, washers, and clips back back on the spot they came from after I removed whatever component. I took my trans to a shop and had it bench rebuilt for $727.00. It took the shop a few days because they had to order the parts, but removing and installing the transmission would save you a lot of cash in the end. Sorry to hear about your issue, but take your time and it should go well for you. The one nice thing about these old rigs is that they are easy to work on. let us know if you run into any problems. By the way, a trans jack works wonders if your doing it your self. If you have a helper, a floor jack would work pretty well also.
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  #12  
Old 05-19-2013, 01:31 PM
Super mud Super mud is offline
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Fill it back up, see where it's leaking from, see if it works, go from there.

Looks like it leaked from the input shaft seal. I brought fluid for a friends bronco that wouldn't move. It was spewing atf out the belhousing. Filled it up, then it moved. Don't know what he did when he got it home though.

It's probobly fine. I run my mj out of fluid all the time.
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  #13  
Old 05-19-2013, 01:34 PM
Super mud Super mud is offline
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Don't buy a trans jack from Harbor freight
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  #14  
Old 05-19-2013, 02:35 PM
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WHSII WHSII is offline
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If the fluid is brown, something has burnt inside, clutches, bands, or maybe just the fluid too hot...

You might have a cooler issue as was said, but the fluid needs to be removed, it has gotten too hot, and will not do it's job.
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  #15  
Old 05-19-2013, 05:13 PM
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capdaddy222 capdaddy222 is offline
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OK, Changed the trans fluid and filter. It was black like motor oil. I found some metal sparkles in the pan. Not too bad.

Took the jeep for a run around the neighborhood. Of course I get to the top of a hill, in a traffic circle and my front drive shaft lets go from the transfercase. It started banging on the floor so I stopped, held up traffic and looked underneath. It was wound around the electrical harness. Grabbed some tools and disconnected the axle end and kept on going.

But the transmission shifts better now than before. It ran fine.
At home there is still a leak from the interface between the motor and transmission. I will let it sit overnight. But the leak is pretty constant.

Here is what i think happened. I was in 4 low. going up a long hill, the transmission was leaking and the fluid landed on the exhaust cross pipe. It caught fire. The fluid level was low enough to free spin the trans. I got out, saw the fire, and put it out. When everything had cooled down, I tried to put it in drive and it wouldnt move. The fluid had leaked enough to keep me from going anywhere.

So I think I have a pretty serious leak. The total travel yesterday was only about 70 miles. I checked the fluid level before I left.

So where should I go from here?
One thing I decided to do was put a transmission temp gauge on. Anyone have a link to how to do that? I also have a remote transmission filter kit. I will put that on as well for the added fluid capacity. Perhaps that will make the temp gauge install easier.

I guess I need to check the transmission cooler. Is there a scientific way to do that?

Im pretty happy so far. I may still have to put work into the transmission, but at least it dosent look like I am going to have to search for a replacement.
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  #16  
Old 05-20-2013, 07:27 AM
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When I first saw the scenery I thought it had to be VA. Is that NW of Charlottesville?
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  #17  
Old 05-20-2013, 07:53 AM
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On the cooler, get a can of trans cooler flush (don't use compressed air!) and run it through the lines disconnected from the trans. It sprays pretty good so beware of that. If it doesn't flow clear, undo the ends from the rad. I had to take the cooler fittings off the rad to get things flowing.
When the cooler clogs, the trans runs hot and the front seal shrinks away from the converter causing a major leak. Inspect the converter neck very carefully for cracks too (less likely on the 727 but extremely common on 9XX trans)
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:11 AM
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capdaddy222 capdaddy222 is offline
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I am not using the radiator portion of the trans cooler. I have only an aux cooler hooked up... Well in theory it was hooked up.



Pinched line kept it from working for sure.





Since I put in a new radiator This is completely my fault. I didnt see that the line was pinched when I installed the radiator.

So the cooler was mounted with the nipples pointed down. Is it possible to mount the cooler rotated 90 degrees so that the lines can be routed so that they wont be pinched? Will that cause any issues to have one port above the other? If I go that route, do I have to be sure to put the input above the output, or does it matter?

Option #1


Option #2


I want to do option #2. What say you?
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"Shaggy" the Waggy
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  #19  
Old 05-20-2013, 11:20 AM
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sounds good. At least you found the "clog"
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:31 AM
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capdaddy222 capdaddy222 is offline
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How can I tell Which line is the output line on the 727?

I dont want to have to start the truck to see which side sprays to find out
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