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Old 04-15-2013, 09:05 PM
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vacaisle vacaisle is offline
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Mobil 1 synthetic oil

I'm pretty convinced that switching to synthetic oil is the way to go (for me). I tried Castrol GTX 20W-50 but there was too much lifter noise on start up and the pressure seemed a little too high, like the truck was working too hard to move the oil around once it was warm. Now I've got Castrol GTX 10W-40 in it and it runs pretty great. All winter I've been thinking I want to move to Rotella 15W-40 for the summer but the more I think about it the only differences are a heavier cold start viscosity (which I don't think I want because of lifter noise with 20w-50) and added ZDDP (which I want). The ZDDP lead me to Mobil 1. There's a lot of great info on here about Mobil 1 synthetic oils but not a lot of people say what viscosity they're using. I would think a lower cold start viscosity and a higher hot viscosity would be good in general. I'm thinking Mobil 1 high milage 10W-40 for the coming summer months here in NYC. Or would a lower cold viscosity be better like 5W-40? They both have about the same ZDDP levels according to this chart. Or should I try 10W-30 or 5W-30? I'm suffering from too much information syndrome.
What would you recommend oh great IFSJA.org?

Matt
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:38 PM
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How many miles on it? If your engine is in decent shape, I would use what the manufacturers recommend. For me it's 10w-30, even in our summers which routinely get into the 90s. On a higher-mileage engine 10w-40 is probably the way to go, or if you're going to be routinely driving in really warm temps (95*+ every day). I can honestly say I noticed a performance hit switching from 10w-30 (Mobil 1) to 10w-40 (Castrol Syntec) when I was experimenting with different oils early on. I used Bulltear's AMC dino oil to break in my new camshaft - talk about THICK! Geez, the Jeep felt like a tractor, lol. No camshaft troubles, though!

IIRC there is a chart in your owner's manual, or you can google it:

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Old 04-15-2013, 09:43 PM
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BTW, last time I checked, Mobil-1 barely had adequate levels of ZDDP for my liking - so I still add ZDDP with every oil change. I actually dug pretty deep into the Mobil oil reports and found the ZDDP level (in PPM) for Mobil-1, and it was slightly below the threshold that the "experts" were saying was required for proper flat-tappet camshaft operation.

Of course this all may have changed as my last research into it was at least four years ago, if not longer...that's why I am hesitant to actually spout off the numbers.
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:05 PM
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All I use now is Mobil1 high mileage 10w40. Used to use the extended performance 5w30 in my KJ on 5000mile changes but, it's gone now. Ran perfectly all the way up onto the wrecker though.
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2005 KJ, Hit-n-Run, 2am 6-17-2012, Totaled.
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1978 SJ Wagoneer, 360, QT, 33x12.5s, lift by Sawzall NOT Running
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:11 PM
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Amsoil doesn't need the ZDDP to lube as it's real synthetic. Mind you, I run NAPA synthetic 15W50 in mine with no probs.
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:20 AM
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I have run mobil 1 10w30 in mine since I bought it from PO. Seems to do a good job.
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnuck
Amsoil doesn't need the ZDDP to lube as it's real synthetic. Mind you, I run NAPA synthetic 15W50 in mine with no probs.

Real synthetic has nothing to do with it. If it did they wouldn't offer their high Zinc, Z-Rod and Premium Protection oils for older flat tappet engines.
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJ Ryu
All I use now is Mobil1 high mileage 10w40. Used to use the extended performance 5w30 in my KJ on 5000mile changes but, it's gone now. Ran perfectly all the way up onto the wrecker though.
I also use Mobil 1 High Mileage, but in 5W30
My WJ has 194K miles and it's 4.0 runs strong.
I use Mobil 1 in everything I own.

...with NAPA Gold Filters
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  #9  
Old 04-16-2013, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The PIG Smith
I also use Mobil 1 High Mileage, but in 5W30
My WJ has 194K miles and it's 4.0 runs strong.
I use Mobil 1 in everything I own.

...with NAPA Gold Filters

I used Mobil 1 in my old 4.0 powered WJ from 6k ish to 130K ish and when I put the lifters and cam in it at 183K I could still see all the hone marks and the bearings looked almost new. I switched over to Amsoil around 130K because at the time I could get a years supply, plus filters delivered to my house for cheaper than anybody else's synthetic bought at a store. Now it is about the same cost with shipping costing so much. I am a firm believer in synthetic oil whether it comes from "real synthetic stocks" or the other versions that have been developed in recent years. Like Mobil 1 or my old stand by Valvoline.
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  #10  
Old 04-16-2013, 09:40 AM
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I run Mobile 1 in all my vehicles and Gravely tractor
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  #11  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:49 AM
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I don't use NAPA/Wix oil filters any more. They must have changed suppliers or something because the anti-drain back valve doesn't work as well as it used to. I use a Baldwin B9 or B39 or the ACDelco PF24.
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  #12  
Old 04-16-2013, 12:15 PM
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vacaisle vacaisle is offline
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I'm going to go with Mobil 1 high mileage 10w-30 and see what happens. If it's weird I'll move up to 10w-40. Both of those have around 1100ppm ZDDP. Just out of curiosity has anyone run 5w-xx in a 360? I wonder if the lower cold start viscosity would be good in the winter?
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  #13  
Old 04-16-2013, 12:42 PM
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Maybe Mobil1 TDT has more ZDDP since it's for Diesels.
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  #14  
Old 04-16-2013, 12:48 PM
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This might be incomplete, but a really quick Google search shows that the "magic number" for the minimum amount of ZDDP is 1200ppm. Some people are saying 1000-1250. Back in the day, the oils used to have 1400+ ppm.

I guess things haven't changed - personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable enough with only 1100ppm, and that's why I add it. IIRC it does deplete over time, and I don't think adding just a bit more is going to hurt anything.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:42 PM
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Mobil 1

I am running Mobil 1 10/40 now, I thought it was a little thick for the winter especially cold starts with my turned down idle RPM. I am going to change to 5/30 extra milage, not to be confused with their high milage oil, next change which will be at the end of the summer.

I did get a little tappet noise on start up and slow build up of pressure on cold mornings. She is very happy on it after circulating the oil. At 135,000 miles runs at 40lbs all the time.






Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasticBoob
This might be incomplete, but a really quick Google search shows that the "magic number" for the minimum amount of ZDDP is 1200ppm. Some people are saying 1000-1250. Back in the day, the oils used to have 1400+ ppm.

I guess things haven't changed - personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable enough with only 1100ppm, and that's why I add it. IIRC it does deplete over time, and I don't think adding just a bit more is going to hurt anything.
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  #16  
Old 04-18-2013, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC/397
I don't use NAPA/Wix oil filters any more. They must have changed suppliers or something because the anti-drain back valve doesn't work as well as it used to. I use a Baldwin B9 or B39 or the ACDelco PF24.
Glad to see I'm not the only one. I even work at a Napa. Every filter I've ever sold or bought that is a Wix (Napa Proselect, Silver, Gold, or Platinum) has been a good filter except the _1258 used for the pre 1987 AMC engines. All have had faulty drainback valves.

I looked up the specs on the 1061 and other alternatives that would work, but chose not to use them for some reason, I forget exactly why. I'll have to check the books when I go back in to work this evening.

I've been using ACDelco PF-24's instead. There is nothing fancy about them, but at least they work properly.

I've run synthetic in all my engines since they were broken in enough to allow it and they all look like they have half the mileage they really do inside. Castrol Syntec 5W50 has 1200 PPm of zinc. Valvoline Premium Blue diesel 5W40 has 1400. It depends on which one is on sale.

All the guys in parts stores will tell you switching from conventional to synthetic on a high mileage engine will cause leaks and other problems. It's just something we have to say to cover ourselves for liability. I've even switched motors back and forth between conventional and synthetic over and over without a single problem. The two products are miscable and fully compatable. One of the myths is the high detergent in synthetic will loosen sludge and plug the oil galleries. Not true. Diesel oil has even more detergent and one never hears horror stories about switching to it.

Do your research before adding magic additives to your engine oil. It's always better to use an oil with everything you need already included in the additive package rather than adding your own bottles to it, because it can cause an inbalance in the chemistry of the oil and cause substances to precipitate out as solids. I stick with Lucas TB Zinc Plus because it's very potent and I know it works. One bottle has more than 2X the ZDDP you really need for regular driving. i believe AMSOIL has their own additive as well, and if it's like everything else AMSOIl sells, it has to be pretty good.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:59 AM
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I am one of those guys who tired Mobil 1 in my AMX and switched back to dynosar oil because it leaked everywhere. This was in about 1996. The engine was well broke in at 20,000 hard miles. I changed the oil to Mobile1 and drove it on a trip out east and back, roughly 1800 miles. I went through 4 quarts of oil getting out there and back. It was so bad I was at the point of tearing down the engine and going through it again. Got home, checked out the car and it seemed like it was leaking every wehre. I went around and tightened oil pan bolts, oil pump cover bolts and what ever bolt I could get at. They weren't really loose. Figured what have I got to loose so, I changed the oil and put a jug of Lucas in it. It seemed to be ok after that. There is a thought that the rubber in the seals in the rebuild kits are still being made with the old compounds and that is one of the reasons that there was leaking problems. I don't know, this is just what happened to me. I know that there are others that haven't had the same experience.

Last edited by SC/397 : 04-18-2013 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:53 PM
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Same worry...

I spent a lot of time and worry over tight seals and gaskets. The result is a very quiet and happy motor. But yes, Synthetics will leak more if your seals are loose. They say its because the synthetic oil molecules are smaller then natural oils. On the other hand the smaller molecules get everywhere in your motor to lube it.






Quote:
Originally Posted by SC/397
I am one of those guys who tired Mobil 1 in my AMX and switched back to dynosar oil because it leaked everywhere. This was in about 1996. The engine was well broke in at 20,000 hard miles. I changed the oil to Mobile1 and drove it on a trip out east and back, roughly 1800 miles. I went through 4 quarts of oil getting out there and back. It was so bad I was at the point of tearing down the engine and going through it again. Got home, checked out the car and it seemed like it was leaking everywehre. I went around and tightened oil pan bolts, oil pump cover bolts and what ever bolt I could get at. They weren't really loose. Figured what have I got to loose so, I changed the oil and put a jug of Lucas in it. It seemed to be ok after that. There is a thought that the rubber in the seals in the rebuild kits are still being made with the old compounds and that is one of the reasons that there was leaking problems. I don't know, this is just whathappened to me. I know that there are others that haven't had the same experience.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasticBoob
This might be incomplete, but a really quick Google search shows that the "magic number" for the minimum amount of ZDDP is 1200ppm. Some people are saying 1000-1250. Back in the day, the oils used to have 1400+ ppm.

I guess things haven't changed - personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable enough with only 1100ppm, and that's why I add it. IIRC it does deplete over time, and I don't think adding just a bit more is going to hurt anything.

It's the internet it MUST be true LOL.
Lots of testing has been done, above 1400ppm has been show to actually INCREASE long term engine wear.
I'd be very careful adding it frequently.
Think about it the number for a worn out engine was 100k back in the day.
Then oddly enough engines started getting 200k and 300k on a regular basis.
Zddp levels have been dropping since ~1988, if it was an issue like everyone claims/myths exaggerate I think there would be far fewer old vehicles hanging around.

I wouldn't add any, but that's just me.
No ill effects on any old iron I've owned since they started dropping the levels.
On a new cam/lifters you need more(enough), that's really the only time far as I'm concerned.

Synthetic is good stuff IMHO if I wasn't such a cheapskate, and my engines didn't leak @ all I'd run it.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:51 PM
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My J10 only leaks from the RMS and it still makes sense to run synthetic in it, to me. I haven't put enough miles on it to warrant an oil change in the last 3 years. I check it (top off) every fill up so I know what the oil looks like, and how it feels. I change the filter once a year, 'cause I don't really trust any of 'em but, synth oils have been REALLY good for me.

I am also lucky enough to have a gas station nearby that sells nothing but PURE, non-corn/soy/seaweed, rotten dinosaur, GASOLINE! I think that has made more of a difference than anything, though. I've noticed my exhaust drips a lot less water than my buddies that just fill up where they happen to be. Even the "1 Legged Dog" that I'm DDing now has gotten better since I started buying the gas for it.
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2005 KJ, Hit-n-Run, 2am 6-17-2012, Totaled.
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1978 SJ Wagoneer, 360, QT, 33x12.5s, lift by Sawzall NOT Running
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