International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > General FSJ Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-27-2008, 01:10 PM
krek's Avatar
krek krek is offline
Perpetually Perplexed
 
Join Date: Apr 23, 2006
Location: Muddy Missouri
Posts: 2,864
Buick 455 vs Olds 455 vs Pontiac 455

I know several members have swapped a Buick 455/TH400 in their FSJ. I went to look at a B455 today and it turned out to be an Oldsmobile 455. I know these motors aren't interchangable, but is there a significant FSJ advantage or disadvantage to the Buick vs the Olds vs the Poncho?
__________________
SuperChief Project Thread: click

The "ChopTop" Project Thread: click

Last edited by krek : 01-27-2008 at 02:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-27-2008, 02:01 PM
billyrb's Avatar
billyrb billyrb is offline
BJ's Off-Road
 
Join Date: Aug 15, 2001
Location: Acworth, GA 30101
Posts: 10,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by krek
I know several members have swapped a Buick 455/TH400 in their FSJ. I went to look at a B455 today and it turned out to be an Oldsmobile 455. I know these motors are interchangable, but is there a significant FSJ advantage or disadvantage to the Buick vs the Olds vs the Poncho?

They aren't interchangeable and don't use the same parts. The Pontiac 455 has the most aftermarket parts available as well as the least expensive. The olds has less support than the pontiac, but still a few good places out there although more expensive. The olds is a great motor and can be built for a TON of power.
__________________
BJ's Off-Road
ryan@bjsoffroad.com
Your source for '63-'91 FSJ Parts
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-27-2008, 02:19 PM
krek's Avatar
krek krek is offline
Perpetually Perplexed
 
Join Date: Apr 23, 2006
Location: Muddy Missouri
Posts: 2,864
Dang it... I specificially meant to type "aren't interchangable"...
__________________
SuperChief Project Thread: click

The "ChopTop" Project Thread: click
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-27-2008, 02:22 PM
billyrb's Avatar
billyrb billyrb is offline
BJ's Off-Road
 
Join Date: Aug 15, 2001
Location: Acworth, GA 30101
Posts: 10,060
hehehe, suuuuure ya did fingerfarts, they make you type what you mean not to
__________________
BJ's Off-Road
ryan@bjsoffroad.com
Your source for '63-'91 FSJ Parts
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-27-2008, 02:32 PM
HorribleHarry's Avatar
HorribleHarry HorribleHarry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 13, 2006
Location: Encino, San Fernando valley, Los Angeles, California, USA., Earth, Orion arm, Milky Way galaxy
Posts: 63
You can get a TON of oomph out of the Olds motor. There is still a decent amount of aftermarket for it since so many were used as boat powerplants.

Perhaps an adapter plate???

These are all good places to start for performance enhancements.
http://www.mondellotwister.com/
http://oldsperformanceproducts.com/
http://www.rocketracingperformance.com/
http://www.pawinc.com/

Harry
__________________
86 GW, 360-V8, NP229, Tow Package(3.73's), D44/AMC23, aux. 25 gal. fuel tank, 2.5" lift, 31"BFG AT's, dual Flowmaster exhaust w twin cats, factory brush guard, PIGNOSE transplant!, rust, shiny chrome valve covers! ...and no more woodgrain!
89 Range Rover classic hunter (with factory standard leaky head gaskets!!!)
87 Vanagon SYNCRO 4X4

Last edited by HorribleHarry : 01-27-2008 at 03:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-27-2008, 02:50 PM
Eugene 1's Avatar
Eugene 1 Eugene 1 is offline
Bleedin' Gasoline
 
Join Date: Feb 04, 2006
Location: La Crosse,Wisconsin ,Wichita ks, Oklahoma City
Posts: 1,845
go Buick !
__________________
1970 Charger Daytona
2005 Ram 1500 Hemi
1979 Cherokee Dodge CTD with running Gear Build thread
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=133468
MoPaR
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-27-2008, 02:53 PM
Mikel's Avatar
Mikel Mikel is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 09, 2000
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 6,203


__________________
1969 M715 6x6
1963 J300 Swivel frame
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-27-2008, 02:56 PM
Eugene 1's Avatar
Eugene 1 Eugene 1 is offline
Bleedin' Gasoline
 
Join Date: Feb 04, 2006
Location: La Crosse,Wisconsin ,Wichita ks, Oklahoma City
Posts: 1,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikel


nice toro. 68 ?
__________________
1970 Charger Daytona
2005 Ram 1500 Hemi
1979 Cherokee Dodge CTD with running Gear Build thread
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=133468
MoPaR
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-27-2008, 02:57 PM
HorribleHarry's Avatar
HorribleHarry HorribleHarry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 13, 2006
Location: Encino, San Fernando valley, Los Angeles, California, USA., Earth, Orion arm, Milky Way galaxy
Posts: 63
66!!!
oh I'd be willing to swap my front teeth for an early Toronado!
Heck it even has my name on it!!!

Harry
__________________
86 GW, 360-V8, NP229, Tow Package(3.73's), D44/AMC23, aux. 25 gal. fuel tank, 2.5" lift, 31"BFG AT's, dual Flowmaster exhaust w twin cats, factory brush guard, PIGNOSE transplant!, rust, shiny chrome valve covers! ...and no more woodgrain!
89 Range Rover classic hunter (with factory standard leaky head gaskets!!!)
87 Vanagon SYNCRO 4X4
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-27-2008, 03:24 PM
willam's Avatar
willam willam is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Jul 12, 2005
Location: Pennsyltucky
Posts: 805
I'm thinking that the deal maker or breaker for swaping into an FSJ woulld be the distributor location. Buick/Caddy is on the timing cover, just like a 360. Not sure, but I believe the rest have them located on the rear of the intake manifold like a chevy. Not a whole lot of room back there, especially when stuffing a big block under the hood.

Why bother with cutting the firewall anymore than necessary? Also makes maintenance easier if it's all up front and easy to get to.

My 2 cents, for what it's worth.

Last edited by willam : 01-28-2008 at 05:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-27-2008, 03:37 PM
Mikel's Avatar
Mikel Mikel is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 09, 2000
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 6,203
Good eye... It's a '66.




A bit of Olds artwork

__________________
1969 M715 6x6
1963 J300 Swivel frame

Last edited by Mikel : 01-27-2008 at 03:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-27-2008, 05:25 PM
krek's Avatar
krek krek is offline
Perpetually Perplexed
 
Join Date: Apr 23, 2006
Location: Muddy Missouri
Posts: 2,864
Sweet Toronado, Mikel!

I have a '69 Country Squire waiting to donate a 429/C6 and 9 inch rear to my wife's high school car (1970 Mustang Sportsroof)... put that project is years off.

What about the Ford 429/C6 for an engine in a FSJ? I'm assuming it would bolt up to an NP205?
__________________
SuperChief Project Thread: click

The "ChopTop" Project Thread: click
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-27-2008, 05:43 PM
krek's Avatar
krek krek is offline
Perpetually Perplexed
 
Join Date: Apr 23, 2006
Location: Muddy Missouri
Posts: 2,864
I just don't like the idea of putting a Ford in a Jeep...
__________________
SuperChief Project Thread: click

The "ChopTop" Project Thread: click
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-27-2008, 07:29 PM
LouM LouM is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 06, 2005
Location: Sugar Hill, GA
Posts: 189
The Buick, Olds, and Pontiac engines you're considering all had the same bellhousing bolt pattern so any one of the three will bolt up to the same transmission. The mounts and accessory brackets are another matter, though. From there on, it's just as Ryan describes. The Pontiac has the most support. I like the Olds engines myself but the Buick 455 was the only stock engine of that era to produce over 500 lb. ft. or torque.

Lou
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-27-2008, 08:03 PM
mafos4471's Avatar
mafos4471 mafos4471 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 07, 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 105
OK, from personnal experience Buick is EXPENSIVE to rebuild... around 3000 for everything. Definately more aftermarket for Olds, Pont, and from what I remember cheaper to rebuild, like 2000-2500. All the 455's had distributers on the front of the engine, so thats not a problem. Have fun...
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-27-2008, 08:10 PM
krek's Avatar
krek krek is offline
Perpetually Perplexed
 
Join Date: Apr 23, 2006
Location: Muddy Missouri
Posts: 2,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafos4471
All the 455's had distributers on the front of the engine, so thats not a problem.
For sure? The engine I looked at today had the dizzy on the rear. It had aftermarket valve covers and air cleaner... I'm not sure what else it could have been.

It was in a '72 Delta 88...
__________________
SuperChief Project Thread: click

The "ChopTop" Project Thread: click
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-27-2008, 09:10 PM
Dirtball's Avatar
Dirtball Dirtball is offline
Bleedin' Gasoline
 
Join Date: Apr 10, 2006
Location: Oneonta, AL
Posts: 2,079
Hope this helps (looks like you WERE looking at on Olds engine):

The Olds engine family is identified by:
1. An oil fill tube at the front of the engine, just over the timing chain enclosure. It is offset to the right (passenger side) of the engine, and on most cars, it stands straight up 'n' down. A few engines use a fill tube with a slight bend in it, but the base of the tube will be vertical.

2. Distributor in the rear, but offset slightly to the left (driver's) side. It rotates counter-clockwise as seen from above. Distributor does not enter the intake manifold.

3. Valve covers are held on with 10 bolts (early engines) or 5 bolts (later engines.) The pattern is the same, but every other hole is unused (and perhaps undrilled) on the 5-bolt covers. 10 bolt covers use five bolts on the bottom row, and five bolts on the top row. 5 bolt covers use three bolts on the bottom row, and two bolts on top row.

4. The timing chain cover is a flat, stamped sheetmetal cover with provision for the front main seal and water pump outlet openings. Fuel pump is mounted to the right (passenger side) of the timing chain housing.

5. There are identifying numbers and letters cast into the top of the timing chain housing at the front of the engine, just in front of the intake manifold. If the large figure at the end is a number, you're looking at a small block. If the large figure at the end is a letter, you're looking at a big block. All 455s use the letter F to identify them.

Info taken from: http://reviews.ebay.com/GM-Big-Block...00000002053785
__________________
Paul
1979 Cherokee N/T
360/TH400/Qtrac/D44s/rear Lock-right
6 inch Hell Creek all spring lift
34x10.50 Super Swamper LTBs
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...t/100_1394.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...t/100_1390.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g1...100_1387-2.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-27-2008, 10:22 PM
Crazy_Jeepman's Avatar
Crazy_Jeepman Crazy_Jeepman is offline
Sloppy Shifter
 
Join Date: Jan 16, 2001
Location: Norway Michigan
Posts: 15,996
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafos4471
All the 455's had distributers on the front of the engine, so thats not a problem.


Quote:
Originally Posted by krek
For sure? The engine I looked at today had the dizzy on the rear. It had aftermarket valve covers and air cleaner... I'm not sure what else it could have been.

It was in a '72 Delta 88...

It would be an OLDS 455. The only 455 with the Dizzy up front would be the Buick.
__________________
Daily Driver 2008 Wrangler Sahara
Going, Gone, or Thinking Fishing
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-28-2008, 02:14 AM
HorribleHarry's Avatar
HorribleHarry HorribleHarry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 13, 2006
Location: Encino, San Fernando valley, Los Angeles, California, USA., Earth, Orion arm, Milky Way galaxy
Posts: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by krek
I just don't like the idea of putting a Ford in a Jeep...

You'd rather see a chevy in there???
ewwwwwwwww yucky (sorry, I grew up in the blue oval)

hehe
Harry
__________________
86 GW, 360-V8, NP229, Tow Package(3.73's), D44/AMC23, aux. 25 gal. fuel tank, 2.5" lift, 31"BFG AT's, dual Flowmaster exhaust w twin cats, factory brush guard, PIGNOSE transplant!, rust, shiny chrome valve covers! ...and no more woodgrain!
89 Range Rover classic hunter (with factory standard leaky head gaskets!!!)
87 Vanagon SYNCRO 4X4
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-28-2008, 10:03 AM
GWChris GWChris is offline
Bleedin' Gasoline
 
Join Date: Jan 22, 2005
Posts: 1,798
When you think about how many OHV pushrod V8 designs the US auto industry made, and how similar they all are from a big picture point of view, it's really silly to have allegence to a particular brand or type. That's without getting into the whole concept of people tying their personal identity to that of a corporation....

Anyway, some particular designs were better worked out than others, and some fit better in a particular application than others - go with whatever gives the best result for the effort and money - or perhaps just use what interests you. The only "correct" engine from a restoration point of view is an AMC.

$4.55 / ga.?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner