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  #1  
Old 03-16-2017, 10:26 PM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Apr 10, 2016
Location: Oregon Coast
Posts: 886
Tired old engine out...



Don't have anyone local I can trust so it's off to S&J rebuilders in Washington for a rebuild.

$1712 for basic rebuild
Getting an Elgin e912p cam $75
Oil rail tube mod $125
Head work $525
Double roller timing chain
$180 shipping round trip.

Hope they do a good job.

Now wondering how I'm going to get it so where they can pick it up. The delivery driver showed up in an 18 wheeler tractor/trailer and refused to come down my road.
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87 GW- Fitech EFI,Fitech FCC,Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift,BFG AT KO2 30",Dynamax muffler,MSD distributor,MSD 6al box,Blaster2 coil,ACCEL 8mm,.045 gap,Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake,Elgin perf cam,HD alum radiator,Powermaster 150alt,Alum HD H2O pump,Serhills tailgate harness,Cowl screen mod,Evil Twin grab handles,Rstep's custom AMC lock knobs
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  #2  
Old 03-17-2017, 02:16 AM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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I wish i had a tow truck to lift my engines out!

Well, you could dangle it off the back of your tow truck and bring it to the driver.
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  #3  
Old 03-17-2017, 04:17 AM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 20, 2006
Location: The Great Googley Moogley Midwest.
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if the "oil rail tube mod " is the oil line under the intake manifold,i would pass on it. that mod hasn't been proven to do a thing,especially on a low rev motor.

there have been a few motors blown up due to that little tube breaking/leaking.

fsjguy had to redo his fresh 401 because of that stupid mod a few years ago...after i told him not to do it the first time.


also,i've run double rollers for years....but anymore,i don't think they hold up. i'll run a comp cam magnum timing set in my next motor.
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Ristows right.................again,




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... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.




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I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!


→ Where the kids hang out...

fsjbuilder.org come for the mindless chat,stay for the hand drawn emoticons.

It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...
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  #4  
Old 03-17-2017, 07:15 AM
Woodchomper's Avatar
Woodchomper Woodchomper is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Dec 17, 2002
Location: Saint Charles, Missouri
Posts: 923
Does S&J rebuilders have experience with AMC engines? If not I think you would be better served if you installed the cam/timing gears and do the oil pump rebuild yourself. SC/397 (Rick) has some excellent threads here on cam-to-timing gear alignment. I also believe Ristow and SC/397 have both posted good info on oil pump rebuilding and modding.

I'm in agreement with Ristow on not needing the 'oil rail tube mod' on a street engine. The problem with the mod is that it adds an additional fail point to the engine. My belief is that you would be better off spending your time making sure the factory oiling system is operating at 100%. If your shop is not familiar with AMC motors they could screw up the block if they drill the fitting in the wrong place too.

Anyway good luck with your rebuild!
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  #5  
Old 03-17-2017, 08:32 AM
440sixpack 440sixpack is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Jul 21, 2016
Location: oregon
Posts: 612
There are no mods required on a street driven AMC engine. anyone qualified to rebuild a small block chevy can rebuild an AMC they're not rocket science. I've been building AMC's since high school for my AMX's and Javelins and have yet to have an issue.

The timing chain cover and oil pump are a poor design but not a mystery to inspect . if you do need another cover I'd find a good original. ALL of the reproductions I've looked at are junk and could very well turn an AMC into a problem engine. other than that they're just like any v8 on the planet.
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  #6  
Old 03-17-2017, 09:47 AM
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SlowGear SlowGear is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Jan 12, 2013
Location: Renton, Washington
Posts: 86
If I may ask, are you working directly with S&J or via BJ's Off-Road for your rebuild?
I'm thinking of going this route (long block, actually) as well so will be very interested to hear about the process and results.
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  #7  
Old 03-17-2017, 10:11 AM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Apr 10, 2016
Location: Oregon Coast
Posts: 886
Appearantly S&J rebuilds motors for BJs off road.
And come with a pain in the arse 7yr100k warranty if you send it back to them. But it's still a warranty.
Hope they know something....

I only told them I wanted an edlebrock performer plus cam to go with my intake I just bought, and roller style rockers to last longer. He recommmended the Elgin as the same cam for $75 compared to edlebrock which was $225. And recommended the oil mod due to design flaw starving 7 and 8.

Engine rebuild is a little over my pay scale and there isn't anyone in my town I trust. I called the one place that claims to rebuild engines with a machine shop and they told me to bring it down so they could look at it before giving me a quote. I know how that usually goes. All local feedback from people who have used them is nothing but pain and money...

It's still in the driveway. Probably till next week so I can have my buddy come over with his tow truck and move it to somewhere I can find to give me permission to drop it off at so they can get it with the big truck.



not too late if there's a better option out there for me.
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87 GW- Fitech EFI,Fitech FCC,Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift,BFG AT KO2 30",Dynamax muffler,MSD distributor,MSD 6al box,Blaster2 coil,ACCEL 8mm,.045 gap,Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake,Elgin perf cam,HD alum radiator,Powermaster 150alt,Alum HD H2O pump,Serhills tailgate harness,Cowl screen mod,Evil Twin grab handles,Rstep's custom AMC lock knobs

Last edited by ShagWagon : 03-17-2017 at 10:39 AM.
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  #8  
Old 03-17-2017, 03:08 PM
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gophman gophman is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Mar 05, 2015
Location: scotland
Posts: 228
I have just taken delivery of an s&j long block 60 though over 10 under on the mains and big ends and same cam.
Not installed yet. Ordered through bjs.
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  #9  
Old 05-10-2017, 06:09 PM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Apr 10, 2016
Location: Oregon Coast
Posts: 886
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87 GW- Fitech EFI,Fitech FCC,Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift,BFG AT KO2 30",Dynamax muffler,MSD distributor,MSD 6al box,Blaster2 coil,ACCEL 8mm,.045 gap,Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake,Elgin perf cam,HD alum radiator,Powermaster 150alt,Alum HD H2O pump,Serhills tailgate harness,Cowl screen mod,Evil Twin grab handles,Rstep's custom AMC lock knobs
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  #10  
Old 05-11-2017, 12:21 AM
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gophman gophman is offline
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Join Date: Mar 05, 2015
Location: scotland
Posts: 228
Hope you have more luck with s&j than I did...
rip off merchants.
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  #11  
Old 05-11-2017, 06:21 AM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Apr 10, 2016
Location: Oregon Coast
Posts: 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by gophman
Hope you have more luck with s&j than I did...
rip off merchants.

So far so good here.

I read about your failure the same day I got mine back. If I had read that before I ordered I wouldn't have that's for sure.

I had asked for a better option before it was too late while it was in purgatory for shipping here, but no one came up with any feasible option other than rebuild it yourself. I found out later that there's someone who rebuilds them on this forum.

Didn't you order yours from Bj off road?
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87 GW- Fitech EFI,Fitech FCC,Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift,BFG AT KO2 30",Dynamax muffler,MSD distributor,MSD 6al box,Blaster2 coil,ACCEL 8mm,.045 gap,Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake,Elgin perf cam,HD alum radiator,Powermaster 150alt,Alum HD H2O pump,Serhills tailgate harness,Cowl screen mod,Evil Twin grab handles,Rstep's custom AMC lock knobs

Last edited by ShagWagon : 05-11-2017 at 06:32 AM.
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  #12  
Old 05-11-2017, 08:12 AM
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babywag babywag is offline
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Location: Land of froot loops and cukcoo-nuts, CA
Posts: 9,809
They used copper tubing!?
That's just begging for a catastrophic failure.
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  #13  
Old 05-11-2017, 11:31 AM
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Woodchomper Woodchomper is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Dec 17, 2002
Location: Saint Charles, Missouri
Posts: 923
Quote:
Originally posted by: babywag
They used copper tubing!?
That's just begging for a catastrophic failure.

My thoughts exactly! That was the first thing that came to mind when I saw the picture.

I wish you the best of luck on your engine but you already know by now that the warranty from S&J is not worth the paper it is written on. You may want to consider getting some guidance from SC/397 and redoing that oil mod correctly.
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  #14  
Old 05-11-2017, 08:52 PM
alley oop's Avatar
alley oop alley oop is offline
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Join Date: Jul 20, 2014
Location: eastern oregon
Posts: 35
just had my 77 remaned by motor works in spokane wa. set down with the owner for the shop and talked oiling mod's his suggestion was to leave it along no mod required, just make sure the clearance between the new oil pump gears and the pump body where in tolerance, has good pressure 35psi at idle warn and 60 psi at hiway speed
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  #15  
Old 05-11-2017, 09:17 PM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Apr 10, 2016
Location: Oregon Coast
Posts: 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodchomper
My thoughts exactly! That was the first thing that came to mind when I saw the picture.

I wish you the best of luck on your engine but you already know by now that the warranty from S&J is not worth the paper it is written on. You may want to consider getting some guidance from SC/397 and redoing that oil mod correctly.

Is it that bad.

Suppose I'm just gullible to take the word of a pro engine builders advice who is the one that's going to rebuild my motor. He said that cylinder 7 and 8 on an AMC 360 was a bad design and starve for oil and this would help. I had no clue.
Sounded good to me. I like overkill.

I surely could have taken the advice not to have it done offered here but I already ordered it..

It's tube was up too high and I had to break out the tin snips and mod the gasket to make it fit. Just thought I'd share with you guys what has to be done for the next guy.

Other than that I like it. Oil pressure is like 60-75. Is that too high?
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  #16  
Old 05-11-2017, 09:58 PM
johnsonic johnsonic is offline
258 I6
 
Join Date: Mar 12, 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 267
I had mine rebuilt and was in the same range if cold. If it gets warm it'll dip to 70 or so. Put 15k on it and just replaced the oil pan, and looks A-OK.

Just went through an engine swap from that '87 to an '84. RIP '87.

For what it's worth, in my '87 the oil sender / gauge combo would show super high - exactly like you're describing. After the transplant to my '84 it shows 50psi. Mechanical gauge showed 65 with cold oil.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/...Gauge.JPG?dl=0
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  #17  
Old 05-12-2017, 08:19 AM
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babywag babywag is offline
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Cold oil pressure doesn't really indicate much.
What is important, is hot oil pressure @ idle.
That is what will show any issues.

My '90 w/ 188K on it, has ~60psi cold oil pressure, hot is ~12-15psi.
Varies slightly with outside temps, and driving conditions/engine temp.
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  #18  
Old 05-12-2017, 10:39 AM
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letank letank is offline
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Location: San Francisco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
Cold oil pressure doesn't really indicate much.
What is important, is hot oil pressure @ idle.
That is what will show any issues.

My '90 w/ 188K on it, has ~60psi cold oil pressure, hot is ~12-15psi.
Varies slightly with outside temps, and driving conditions/engine temp.

2x, it depends on the oil viscosity and the accuracy of your 30 year old gauge, unless using mechanical gauge... When the CVR failed for a second time and the OEM oil pressure gauge was around 35 psi at idle and 50ish at 60 mph, I had to modify the CVR. Now it is working as expected.



More here

http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/view...=8334&start=20
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  #19  
Old 05-12-2017, 11:01 AM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Apr 10, 2016
Location: Oregon Coast
Posts: 886
But is there too high oil pressure at hot idle? Mines like 50psi+ and my gauge is pegged when I first start it.

I thought my sending unit was bad at first so I replaced it with a new one and checked wiring with my gauge. Thought new sending unit was bad too it seemed pegged until I looked really close and it fluctuated at higher Rpms like it should over 80psi. Then I drove it to town and it lowered way down to still 60psi+. Now it's been a few weeks it's been down to 50psi or so but it still is like 70psi+ cruising.

Not sure to be concerned or happy about it. I can go rent a oil pressure manual gauge or something? But if it's reasonable to have such high oil pressure I'll just leave it alone and call it good.

Maybe my copper tube is kinked and making too much pressure?
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  #20  
Old 05-12-2017, 02:28 PM
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babywag babywag is offline
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That is NOT normal, with pressure that high something is wrong.
I would verify with a mechanical gauge, if that gauge says similar need to investigate.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ShagWagon
But is there too high oil pressure at hot idle? Mines like 50psi+ and my gauge is pegged when I first start it.

I thought my sending unit was bad at first so I replaced it with a new one and checked wiring with my gauge. Thought new sending unit was bad too it seemed pegged until I looked really close and it fluctuated at higher Rpms like it should over 80psi. Then I drove it to town and it lowered way down to still 60psi+. Now it's been a few weeks it's been down to 50psi or so but it still is like 70psi+ cruising.

Not sure to be concerned or happy about it. I can go rent a oil pressure manual gauge or something? But if it's reasonable to have such high oil pressure I'll just leave it alone and call it good.

Maybe my copper tube is kinked and making too much pressure?
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