'Da Chief : 5.3 Gen V / 6L80 Swap

[cu4whln]

Had the day off .. but it was cold and I didn't feel too motivated.. BUT - Did some brake planning. It seems the vacuum pump on the L83 Acc drive may interfere with the steering maybe?

So figured out how to get proper manifold vacuum without the pump. These new engines don't have vac ports like an old school ones. I will have to eliminate the purge valve and then tap that port for a vacuum fitting to supply the brake booster. Then I can remove the vac pump completely.

Also, since the fenders are off, decided to look into the fender well vents. The drainage passages? This is supposed to drain the cowl area inlet during rain. Totally blocked with accumulated crapola. First pic, see the debris hanging out of the drain opening?

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Hmm, decided to poke around with a screw driver and various things to help clear the drain. Yikes, this is only PART of the stuff that came out. Pic doesn't show how much is there really. Mostly leaves and tree stuff.

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This is what the drain is supposed to look like... After I cleaned it out. I am going to add some screens in the upper cowl area to keep this stuff from plugging it again.

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[bigwalton]

Excellent. The new owner greatly appreciates the effort as he desperately wants that sweet-sounding exhaust

[cu4whln]

in Today's News . . .

Gas Tank, Round One:
40 year old bolts were a LOT of fun. Got the skid plate removed, and then worked on the fuel tank itself. Sure would be nice if they had used a few weld nuts. Getting a wrench over the tank and holding it was a bugger. [ Vehicle also has a rear tank, will likely remove that as well. Don't need 47 gallons of fuel on board !]

This stuff was heavy! Working alone was a bit of a challenge. The rubber fuel fill hoses? Hard as a ROCK. Heck, they were hard to cut! After some effort, and reading the factory service manual.. I got it out.

The gauge said 1/8 of a tank. NOPE. I spilled about 5 gallons in the back yard when the tank fell off my makeshift draining fixture. Sorry dear, the grass is prob not gonna grow there! Tank was not in horrible shape actually...

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Removed the sending unit and fuel pickup. This is what 40 year old parts look like! No wonder I see rust in the fuel filter.

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Interesting find: inside the tank, there is a "fuel slosh" baffle by the pickup. I didn't think our tanks had that? I am very happy there is one! This is a pic DOWN the pickup opening... see the vertical wall? Not rusty. And some crud on the bottom of the tank of course... including the remnants of the pickup screen.


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Couldn't resist laying the new in tank Holly pump top part to see how it will fit. [It's upside down here] I think it's going to work great. I will detail tank mod and installation later.

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[cu4whln]

Dana 300 . . .

So I needed a Dana 300 t-case, and friend says, I have one you can have. It's been sitting on the shelf for 30+ years.. but it had very low miles on it. Great. Price was right - Free.

So today I venture out to the storage area, and actually find it.

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I then went to Dave's shop and we installed the NOVAK 32 spline output shaft for the 6L80 trans. First, remove the gear, then the retaining clip so the bearing can be removed. Old and new input shaft.

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Then the shaft and bearing can be removed from the input housing. The press had no problem removing the bearing, then we pressed it on the new input shaft.

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All installed, really easy. Now for some initial cleanup.

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An hour of basic cleaning... will degrease and find my POR.

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Now, one remaining issue.. I need the shaft that holds the shift rod in place. I have yet to find a source for that. Anybody have one they can separate with? it's the cross shaft that the shifter sits on.. has a nut on one end, and washers and cotter pin on the other.

Does anybody make a SINGLE cable shifter? I only see twin stick set ups. Will probably use the stock one, if and when I can find parts.

[cu4whln]

No huge news today. But an important one. I spent the day measuring all the various angles of the engine, F & R propshafts, pinion angles as it sits now. It has no vibrations currently with the 4" lift.. so I'll shoot to match these is possible.

Did some basic cleanup on the tank... still lots of crapola floating around in the tank. Need the fuel to evaporate so I can cut the hole for the planned in tank pump module. The tank cleaned up well, no real rust damage .. well, on the outside anyway.

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[cu4whln]

In todays news :

Worked on a few things today. Looks like 401 is coming out and leaving my garage Sat. Mixed feelings, but part of the process.
Got everything loose.. literally.. the engine is just sitting on the mounts and a jack stand under the t-case.

Worked on prepping the tank for cleaning and coating... Before it goes, I need to remove the locking ring to make a good sealing surface for the new fuel pump module.

The locking ring is spot welded around the edge. I thought I could use a chisel to break the welds .. NOPE. Don't do that. It tore the weld and distorted the edge. I then drilled each spot weld out.. then they came off pretty well.... I flattened each one as best I could with a hammer. LOUD !

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I used a small pry bar and tapped it under each one.. and they came off. 9 total.

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The Holly directions say to drill a 3 1/4" hole... so I marked it off on the top of tank. Now, as the tank still smell like fuel, I am letting the professionals cut the hole and weld up the 9 holes...

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I am pretty happy with how this appears to be working out... There is a flat area for the foam seal to sit against.. and it fits in the anti-slosh tub inside the tank. I had to test place the top of the module to see of course....

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The tank cleaning service will totally clean and blast the tank inside and out.. they coat the inside so it will not rust again. Then, they add a tough durable coating on the outside as well. That's fine with me.. I may not put the skid plate back anyway...

[SJTD]

Idunno about welding the holes. Isn't the tank plated with lead or a lead alloy? My tank's plastic but other steel tanks I've messed with were. If so maybe solder instead?

[cu4whln]

Idunno about welding the holes. Isn't the tank plated with lead or a lead alloy? My tank's plastic but other steel tanks I've messed with were. If so maybe solder instead?

Hmm, I don't know? It appears, if anything, there might some galvanizing inside the tank? I will let them make that call. Snow and ice here.. I think I will wait for a better day to drive an hour each way . . .

Actually, the module has a thick foam gasket that is probably wide enough to cover the holes. I was hoping the required opening would eliminate the holes.
This is a pic of the underside of the module - See the foam gasket? It's maybe 1/2" thick.

You can also see the 5 cams that rotate out and capture the underside of the tank as you tighten them.

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[cu4whln]

Spent some time getting the Dana 300 ready to install... First, you remove the stock 4wd adaptor.. then I reused the bolts to install the Novak adaptor to the trans... ( This is a dry adaptor btw )
Next, you install the new studs with lock tight in the t-case.

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Then played with the various clocking positions trying to decide which one to use... The front output is REALLY close to the trans and heat shield... I decided to remove the heat shield at this point.

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Then .. I couldn't-case in get the transfer case to fully seat? At first I thought it was me.. 85 lb t-case.. jiggling it around trying to get it on. Nope.

Then I did some measuring. Hmmm, it seems the trans output shaft is too long? It bottoms out on the newly installed input shaft? Going to have to call and ask Novak about that.
It says a 4WD trans should bolt right up with this kit? As this is a 2018 6L80, maybe GM made a change to the output shaft ? No big deal, I guess I can cut some off the shaft.

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[cu4whln]

In Today's News . . .

401 be gone ! Today we removed the original 401 and sent it to a good home. Going into a 77 Wagoneer- "Mater".

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Eric is happy !

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[bigwalton]

77 Cherokee S

Very excited! Awesome to check out this rig in person and talk Jeep (and get a 401 )

[cu4whln]

Removed the stock factory engine mounts... unbolt, then break the weld on top of the frame loose. 5 lb sledge did its job!
Note - there are now 6 bolts.. the dirty ones with nuts are the original bolts holding the stock engine mount on.

Now, The Novak bolt on LS mounts use these existing holes, as well as 3 others.. the added holes are already there.. and it all lined up well.
Will have to grind/dress the frame a bit, but that should be easy.
I am just test fitting here . . .

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And now: The "Rest of The Story" . . .

Remember I am installing a Gen 5 "LT" engine? Well, the engine mount location is off from the LS series engines.. moved rearward and up it appears.
So why am I playing around with the bolt on LS mounts instead of the "universal" set from Novak specifically for the Gen 5 engine?[ Which I also have ]
Well, Brad had mentioned there are adaptor plates available to compensate for this.. so...

After some research, I found ICT Billet makes adaptor mount plates to locate a Gen 5 LT engine in the same center of crank/back of block that an LS would have had. Seems folks are updating LS vehicles with the Gen 5 LT engines. So, I'll bite.. and ordered a set. in theory, this should let me have a bolt in Gen 5 LT engine using the LS set up from Novak. Time will tell, I need the parts to arrive.
AND - I have a LOT of clean up to do before that trial begins.

Why am I in there ? The wife caught me tinkering and snapped this pic. Well, it appears the lower column bearing fell out and seems to have failed? I looked in the factory service manual, it looks like there is a retainer to hold the bearing in place? It seems this has failed? Anybody know about this ?

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[cu4whln]

T-case woes..

Well, it's been a frustrating day. The Novak "Bolt On" Dana 300 kit to put it behind a 6L80 did NOT work well for me. The first go around, I couldn't get it to seat.. and then called Novak. They said, oh yes, you need to cut the output shaft to 3 1/8 " sticking out. It clearly states on the website that if you have a 4x4 trans [which I do], this kit bolts on.

There were no directions included in the kit. I couldn't find any on line either. This seems very uncharacteristic for Novak?
Seems like if a modification and the related measurement are required, why no instructions? IDK.

Anyway, I measured carefully how much I thought needed to be cut off... There was not even 3" of shaft sticking out..
Looked to be a 1" gap. That was the gap to seat the t-case. I made it 1 1/8" to ensure some extra clearance. Added some tape and got out the cut off wheel. NOT FUN. Working your way through a case hardened steel output shaft was tough.

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OK - after some time ... I let it cool between cuts so the seal wouldn't be damaged.. I got through the shaft. this was a good 1 1/2 hours btw. I then did the best I could to add a small chamfer to the lead in edge. That's the cut off pc for reference.

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OK ! Good ! .. I put the adaptor back on the trans.. and loaded to Dana 300... Hmm, it STILL won't seat? What ?? I must have miscalculated the required amount to remove?
Still not sure how that happened?
I ADDED an extra 1/8" ? It was virtually on, but it still had a very small gap.
DANG IT. Need to cut another 1/16th[ish] off to seat the T-case on the adaptor.
It was difficult to cut such a thin amount.. about the width of the cut off wheel. UGH. Again, not a lot of fun. Steady hand required !

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Add the chamfer again . . . Getting concerned now.. the output shaft is getting very short ?
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OK -time to try it again.. reinstall the adaptor, which fit perfectly btw..

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The moment of truth .. and it now fits. Wonder what I did wrong? Or maybe I got the wrong adaptor or something? IDK. It is a pretty short t-case compared to the Q-Trac. I need a drink now.

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[cu4whln]

In Todays News ....

Edit - Post was cut off.. dang it. Trying to fix it now. lost half hour...

Played around some more with the mounts. The LS to LT adaptor plates arrived. These plates are for people replacing their Gen IV / Gen 4 LS engines with the updated Gen V LT engines. The "claim" is this locates the back of block and crank centerline the same as an original LS installation. We will see.

Note, the LT mount moved rearward roughly 1" and up about 3/4" [best guess]. I don't have the actual data .. I am making the "assumption" the center of each hole pattern locates the engine mount. Look at the rough hand drawn lines to locate the middle of each.

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Next laid out both sets of mounts... The bolt on LS set has a flat plate, the LT has some form. I don't know why.... Note, the actual rubber mounts are the same on either version.

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I then bolted the adaptor plates into the stock Gen 5 block mount holes. Note, the open holes are for the LS mount

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The LS mount was then bolted up to adaptor plate. Note, there are 3 holes to choose from. I chose the ones to push the engine as far forward as possible to help with exhaust clearance. I am hoping to use the original crossmember location as well.

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[Simo]

I like the dedicated dana 300 marriage and feel ya on the 'measure twice cut once' challenge - second guessing modifying such an important/expensive shaft with no advertised indication from the manufacturer for the application while fearing approach of too little spline engagement left for safely transmitting the torque. Ideally the remaining spline engagement would probably be at least 1.5-2x of the diameter. At least out of any imperfect scenario, by going a conservative hair too long at first you could still just grind a little more off.