AX15 or AW4 swap Help

[tgreese]

Your Jeep has an automatic now? The V8 Wagoneers with a manual transmission use a funny setup with a long spacer between the bellhousing and the transmission, and a very long input shaft. This moves the shifter rearward, into the cabin. The shifter of a top-shift manual like a Ford T-18 with the usual short input shaft will come up under the dash of a Wagoneer. If you are wiling to bend the shift stalk so you can reach it, that might not be a problem for you. However, I'm not certain what the shifter setup is on an AX15 - I think it's a short shifter stalk, so you may not be able to bend it to fit. Best thing to do would be get out the tape and measure.

Additionally, you'll want to find a manual transmission FSJ donor for all the clutch-related pieces like the pedal, linkage, plain steering column, etc.

This is aside from any durability issues that might arise with the V8 + AX15 + heavy vehicle combo. You could go with a NV4500 if you were worried about this ... but I expect it would be very expensive.

No personal experience, but the folks at the Novak site seem to think rather highly of the AX15.

[skeletor]

did the zj ax15 have a different shifter than the xj version? i remember hearing something like that, but there isnt a whole bunch of factory manual zj's floating around.

[Al Johnson]

Everyone keeps pushing me away from the ax15 swap, is it really difficult? Is there an easier OD manual to put in?

I'm going to vote for an AX-15. I have one in my baby Jeep (87 Wrangler) behind a torquey mildly built 360, and have not babied it. Works fine. Be sure to use good synthetic lube such as Redline in the AX-15. I like mine.

That said, I think the AW4 is also a good choice. I had one in an XJ, and it was a real good tranny.

Either way, have fun.

[Cecil14]

I run the NV3550 and have had no problems with it. I run 3.55 gears and 32-33" tires (depending on season). I have towed with mine (worn out 4.0L and 32s) and it did alright, not spectacular but sufficient. That was in 4th all the way, though. I suspect with a stock 360 and more factory sized tires 3.31s would be fine. Plus the GW is considerably more aerodynamic than my J-truck.

Either will probably work ok for you assuming average street driving. I see a TON of people running the AX15 with strokers, and most of those strokers have to be pushing similar #s to a stock 360, especially a smogged one. Weight and abuse will certainly be your enemy with either transmission. If you don't drive like a fool you should be good with either.

If you're worried about durability, think about this: the AW4 was run in 320+ hp twin turbo Toyota Supras. Granted the weight is less, but abuse certainly wasn't. lol

aa

[jMedia]

Your Jeep has an automatic now? The V8 Wagoneers with a manual transmission use a funny setup with a long spacer between the bellhousing and the transmission, and a very long input shaft. This moves the shifter rearward, into the cabin. The shifter of a top-shift manual like a Ford T-18 with the usual short input shaft will come up under the dash of a Wagoneer. If you are wiling to bend the shift stalk so you can reach it, that might not be a problem for you. However, I'm not certain what the shifter setup is on an AX15 - I think it's a short shifter stalk, so you may not be able to bend it to fit. Best thing to do would be get out the tape and measure.

Additionally, you'll want to find a manual transmission FSJ donor for all the clutch-related pieces like the pedal, linkage, plain steering column, etc.

This is aside from any durability issues that might arise with the V8 + AX15 + heavy vehicle combo. You could go with a NV4500 if you were worried about this ... but I expect it would be very expensive.

No personal experience, but the folks at the Novak site seem to think rather highly of the AX15.

I do have an automatic now. I dont think Ill have durability issues, I've heard its pretty strong, especially since I will not be offroading. As for the shifter coming up under the dash...
You referenced the t18 coming up under the dash, its 11.9" where as the AX15 is 16.5" long. Not a huge difference but is it enough?
Also by the pictures it looks like the shifter on the t18 is further forward than the ax15
t18:

and here is the AX15:

[jMedia]

I run the NV3550 and have had no problems with it. I run 3.55 gears and 32-33" tires (depending on season). I have towed with mine (worn out 4.0L and 32s) and it did alright, not spectacular but sufficient. That was in 4th all the way, though. I suspect with a stock 360 and more factory sized tires 3.31s would be fine. Plus the GW is considerably more aerodynamic than my J-truck.

Either will probably work ok for you assuming average street driving. I see a TON of people running the AX15 with strokers, and most of those strokers have to be pushing similar #s to a stock 360, especially a smogged one. Weight and abuse will certainly be your enemy with either transmission. If you don't drive like a fool you should be good with either.

If you're worried about durability, think about this: the AW4 was run in 320+ hp twin turbo Toyota Supras. Granted the weight is less, but abuse certainly wasn't. lol

aa

Ya I'm not too worried about durability. I drive my cars and sometimes I DRIVE my cars, but I dont abuse them. And like i said before, not gonna be offroading so that abuse is out of the picture

[Cecil14]

The shifter on the AX-15 is about 3-4" in front of the t-case. How long is the bellhousing, though? The T-18 has a ~5" spacer in front of it to make up that difference in length...so you're only gaining something like 5-6" of shifter movement? With the NV3550 in mine (shifter similar to the AX-15) the shifter pops up right at the rear edge of the trans inspection plate. I ran a V-8 T-18 behind my L6 and that's the same spot the shifter for it came up. I'm betting you'd be OK on the shifter location.


aa

[Chevelleguy]

You don't have to source all the mechanical linkage from a manual FSJ to do the AX-15 swap, only the pedal assy because the AX-15 uses a hydraulic clutch. You will need the master and slave cylinder from the donor vehicle and then have to do a little fab work to your firewall to make it work.

[jMedia]

You don't have to source all the mechanical linkage from a manual FSJ to do the AX-15 swap, only the pedal assy because the AX-15 uses a hydraulic clutch. You will need the master and slave cylinder from the donor vehicle and then have to do a little fab work to your firewall to make it work.

Thanks, that reminds me, when I pull the AX15 from a donor, what ALL do i need to take?

[Cecil14]

Transmission, bellhousing, shifter. For an L6 you can grab the flywheel, too. For a V8 you'll need the corresponding flywheel (304 = 304, 360 = 360, etc.). You can grab the clutch, or you can get a new one.

As mentioned you'll need the master/slave setup. It's not hard to mount up to our pedals, just takes a bit of time with a drill and tape. Be REAL careful with the hydraulic setup as it cannot be bled...it's a pre-bled system. If it gets air in it you're SOL. Thank you Chrysler, for your infinite wisdom. @#Q$Q

[jMedia]

....For a V8 you'll need the corresponding flywheel (304 = 304, 360 = 360, etc.)...

What do you mean by this? sorry I am a little new, I've heard people having to re balance the flywheel to correspond to the AX15 but I'm not sure what you mean

[Cecil14]

The flywheel has nothing (for the most part) to do with the transmission. Keep in mind we're talking about FLYWHEELS here (manual) and NOT flexplates (auto). The flywheel has to match the engine. The AMC L6s are all internally balanced, meaning that all the individual pieces (balancer, crank, flywheel) are balanced to "zero". Spun individually none of them will vibrate. The AMC V8s are balanced externally, meaning all three pieces have to match one another. They have to be balanced as a set, as a result you cannot swap flywheels between different displacement engines. ie: a 360 HAS to use a 360 flywheel.

Now, in theory, any flywheel can be balanced to match any rotating assembly. How practical this is depends on how much metal needs to be removed/added to make up the difference in weight. I have heard of people having the V8s balanced to "zero" so they can run any neutral flywheel and/or balancer. I've not seen it in person, though.


aa

[jMedia]

The flywheel has nothing (for the most part) to do with the transmission. Keep in mind we're talking about FLYWHEELS here (manual) and NOT flexplates (auto). The flywheel has to match the engine. The AMC L6s are all internally balanced, meaning that all the individual pieces (balancer, crank, flywheel) are balanced to "zero". Spun individually none of them will vibrate. The AMC V8s are balanced externally, meaning all three pieces have to match one another. They have to be balanced as a set, as a result you cannot swap flywheels between different displacement engines. ie: a 360 HAS to use a 360 flywheel.

Now, in theory, any flywheel can be balanced to match any rotating assembly. How practical this is depends on how much metal needs to be removed/added to make up the difference in weight. I have heard of people having the V8s balanced to "zero" so they can run any neutral flywheel and/or balancer. I've not seen it in person, though.


aa

Oh ok thank you very much.
So I need to find a flywheel off of a 360 manual? Are those hard to come by?
thanks again
Josh

[Cecil14]

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=102314

Assuming it's still for sale.


aa

[Cecil14]

Afterthought: I would recommend having anything balanced if possible when mixing/matching parts like that. Not mandatory, and I certainly trust Elliott, but it's real easy to mix up AMC flywheels as the casting numbers don't specify which motor they came from, to my knowledge.


aa