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  #1  
Old 07-03-2019, 11:21 AM
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RVAWagon RVAWagon is offline
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Location: Richmond, VA
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Windows no longer working within a week of one another

Ok, so I've searched but I've not found the solution.

All based around windows, I have three issues:
1) Driver-Rear window stopped working, it's currently cracked about 2-inches down.
2) Tailgate USED to only go down with key, but would go up with key or switch.
3) Tailgate stopped working, it's currently down about 6-inches

Item #1 - About a week ago, I parked my 87GW and I cracked all the windows so it wouldn't get too hot. When I got in after work and rolled up the windows, all went up except the driver side back glass. It will not go up or down with the switch or manually. Also the voltmeter in the dash does not register any drop when I hit the switch. The needle bounces a bit with all other switches.

Item #2 - When I bought the wagon a few years ago, the tailgate window would only go down if I have the key in the door and if I guided the glass down, it would get stuck a bit in the track going down. The window would go up fine with the key. The dash switch would only roll the window up.

Item #3 - Yesterday I was rolling the window down with the key in the tailgate and it went down about 6-inches and then just stopped altogether.

I've seen on here BabyWag says that motors rarely fail and it's often electrical. That being said, the motors have always been very slow to roll up and down.

Questions:
A) So does it sound like one or both of these motors happened to fail?
B) I assume that item #2 requires a new switch, I've been meaning to do that, but since the window would work with the key, the new switch kept going down the priority level.
C) Can someone help guide how to test the motors? What tools will I need for this? I don't have a mA generator, would I need one?

Thank you for all your help. I've already purchased the motors so I can go ahead and get them in, I would just return them if it turns out I don't need them.
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1987 Grand Wagoneer Stock
The original owner kept it in a garage and barely drove it, I bought it in Sept of '15 with 107K miles on the clock... so many of the parts that I pull off are still AMC originals.

Gone But Not Forgotten:
1993 Jeep XJ Cherokee
2000 Jeep TJ Wrangler
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  #2  
Old 07-04-2019, 06:28 AM
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RVAWagon RVAWagon is offline
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UPDATE:
Issue #1 I hit the window switch on the driver side rear door and the window went down but it will still not go up. So now I'm thinking it's not the motor, but I don't know where to start checking.
__________________
1987 Grand Wagoneer Stock
The original owner kept it in a garage and barely drove it, I bought it in Sept of '15 with 107K miles on the clock... so many of the parts that I pull off are still AMC originals.

Gone But Not Forgotten:
1993 Jeep XJ Cherokee
2000 Jeep TJ Wrangler
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  #3  
Old 07-04-2019, 06:56 AM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
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Join Date: Apr 10, 2016
Location: Oregon Coast
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Take the switches apart and look for corrosion. Usually the culprit.

They all go thru the drivers switch panel as well. The tailgate also goes thru the front switch.

You can hook a 12v battery straight to the motors to test. Make sure they aren

Take the switches apart and look for corrosion. Usually the culprit.

They all go thru the drivers switch panel as well. The tailgate also goes thru the front switch.

You can hook a 12v battery straight to the motors to test. Make sure they aren’t still plugged into the Jeep wire harness when you do this.

Slow wi does are a sign they are getting corrosion and losing voltage. Unless the tracks are wasted, or twisted.
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87 GW- Fitech EFI,Fitech FCC,Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift,BFG AT KO2 30",Dynamax muffler,MSD distributor,MSD 6al box,Blaster2 coil,ACCEL 8mm,.045 gap,Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake,Elgin perf cam,HD alum radiator,Powermaster 150alt,Alum HD H2O pump,Serhills tailgate harness,Cowl screen mod,Evil Twin grab handles,Rstep's custom AMC lock knobs
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  #4  
Old 07-05-2019, 10:02 AM
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RVAWagon RVAWagon is offline
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Thanks for the help.

Update:
Item #1 - When I was taking apart the drivers side rear door, I noticed the brown wire was cut inside the hinge. I hooked up a jumper wire and the window rolled up! HUZZAH! So I connected the wire back and lubed the flex track and the window is doing much better!

Now onto item #2.... How do I access the tailgate when the window is 75% rolled up?!?
__________________
1987 Grand Wagoneer Stock
The original owner kept it in a garage and barely drove it, I bought it in Sept of '15 with 107K miles on the clock... so many of the parts that I pull off are still AMC originals.

Gone But Not Forgotten:
1993 Jeep XJ Cherokee
2000 Jeep TJ Wrangler
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  #5  
Old 07-05-2019, 12:33 PM
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babywag babywag is offline
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try pushing the drivers side upper corner of gate in.
many many times it is simply the safety switch not closed/completing the circuit.
if that doesn't work you'll need to pull carpet & access panel off to gain access.
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  #6  
Old 07-05-2019, 01:34 PM
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RVAWagon RVAWagon is offline
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I've had to crawl into the back and remove the carpet and access panel. I'm in an odd position with the window still mostly up. I see where there is a YELLOW and BLACK wire into the top of the motor. From that connection there is the tan and brown wires that connect to the safety switch.

If I disconnect that harness/connector, I should be able to run a positive and negative off of the battery to actuator the motor, correct?
__________________
1987 Grand Wagoneer Stock
The original owner kept it in a garage and barely drove it, I bought it in Sept of '15 with 107K miles on the clock... so many of the parts that I pull off are still AMC originals.

Gone But Not Forgotten:
1993 Jeep XJ Cherokee
2000 Jeep TJ Wrangler
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  #7  
Old 07-05-2019, 01:58 PM
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babywag babywag is offline
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yes, but i would bypass safety switch first to see if that is the issue.
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  #8  
Old 07-05-2019, 02:04 PM
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RVAWagon RVAWagon is offline
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how would I bypass the safety switch if the tailgate is closed?
__________________
1987 Grand Wagoneer Stock
The original owner kept it in a garage and barely drove it, I bought it in Sept of '15 with 107K miles on the clock... so many of the parts that I pull off are still AMC originals.

Gone But Not Forgotten:
1993 Jeep XJ Cherokee
2000 Jeep TJ Wrangler
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  #9  
Old 07-05-2019, 02:13 PM
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RVAWagon RVAWagon is offline
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Location: Richmond, VA
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I've also found two black wires that are no longer connected. I'm assuming they are ground connections?

One is zip tied to one of the riser arms and connected to an orange wire, I'm thinking that for the defrost.

The other is all black but I can't tell where it's connected, it feels like it might be connected to the motor but it goes back behind the regulator arms/gears and I can't see or feel where it lands.
__________________
1987 Grand Wagoneer Stock
The original owner kept it in a garage and barely drove it, I bought it in Sept of '15 with 107K miles on the clock... so many of the parts that I pull off are still AMC originals.

Gone But Not Forgotten:
1993 Jeep XJ Cherokee
2000 Jeep TJ Wrangler
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  #10  
Old 07-05-2019, 02:33 PM
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babywag babywag is offline
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Posts: 9,594
safety switch bypass = unplug and jumper between 2 wires of plug.
black wires likely for defrost grid
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  #11  
Old 07-05-2019, 03:19 PM
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RVAWagon RVAWagon is offline
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OK Now we're cooking!

So I bypassed the safety switch with a jumper and ran 12v directly to the pigtail and now my window is all the way up!

So now I know the motor is good. But how do I go about putting it all back together?

I'd like to be able to bypass the safety switch and still use my key in the switch and the switch in the dash.

If I roll the window down to take down the tailgate, I wont be able to get to the motor pigtail since it will be behind the glass.
__________________
1987 Grand Wagoneer Stock
The original owner kept it in a garage and barely drove it, I bought it in Sept of '15 with 107K miles on the clock... so many of the parts that I pull off are still AMC originals.

Gone But Not Forgotten:
1993 Jeep XJ Cherokee
2000 Jeep TJ Wrangler
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  #12  
Old 07-05-2019, 06:13 PM
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babywag babywag is offline
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bypassing the safety switch you should still be able to use switches normally .
if not you have to find the problem(s).
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  #13  
Old 07-06-2019, 03:40 PM
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RVAWagon RVAWagon is offline
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Yeah ... Ive bypasses the safety switch and still the window will not move with either the key or the dash switch......



I still have a new dash switch on order from TGW and it should be here on Monday. But I'm wondering where the issue is now
__________________
1987 Grand Wagoneer Stock
The original owner kept it in a garage and barely drove it, I bought it in Sept of '15 with 107K miles on the clock... so many of the parts that I pull off are still AMC originals.

Gone But Not Forgotten:
1993 Jeep XJ Cherokee
2000 Jeep TJ Wrangler
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  #14  
Old 07-07-2019, 09:52 AM
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RVAWagon RVAWagon is offline
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Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 69
So regarding the tailgate window, the dash switch doesn't move the window up or down. The door switch doesn't move the window up or down.

Currently the safety switch is bypassed with a wire nut connecting the two brown wires at the safety switch and the only way the motor works if I run 12v from the battery directly to the motor pigtail.

I'm currently waiting on the new switch to arrive (this Monday) and then I'm curious what happened to the tailgate door switch.
__________________
1987 Grand Wagoneer Stock
The original owner kept it in a garage and barely drove it, I bought it in Sept of '15 with 107K miles on the clock... so many of the parts that I pull off are still AMC originals.

Gone But Not Forgotten:
1993 Jeep XJ Cherokee
2000 Jeep TJ Wrangler
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  #15  
Old 07-07-2019, 11:51 AM
SJTD SJTD is offline
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Location: Lompoc and Sunland, CA
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In centered positions the rear switch makes BRN-BRN and TAN-TAN and the front switch grounds both BRN and TAN.

ORN is the hot and should have power all the time through the breaker on the fuse panel. Start by verifying this.

One way to go about troubleshooting is to unplug motor and with safety switch closed you should have continuity between BRN and TAN at motor plug and from either of those to ground.

If not, unplug rear switch and check again on the wires to dash. If OK now, bad key switch. If still nothing, bad dash switch, wires or connections.


Or find the connector C157 where it comes out of the tailgate. It's 3 wires, WHT, BRN and TAN. Unmate connector and ground both the BRN and TAN. This simulates a properly funcfuncfunctioning dash switch and the key switch should work.
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  #16  
Old 07-09-2019, 05:25 AM
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RVAWagon RVAWagon is offline
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Thank you for the help. I'm hoping to get back to it this weekend.

Any other tips or things to check?
__________________
1987 Grand Wagoneer Stock
The original owner kept it in a garage and barely drove it, I bought it in Sept of '15 with 107K miles on the clock... so many of the parts that I pull off are still AMC originals.

Gone But Not Forgotten:
1993 Jeep XJ Cherokee
2000 Jeep TJ Wrangler
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  #17  
Old 07-13-2019, 07:37 PM
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RVAWagon RVAWagon is offline
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Location: Richmond, VA
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OK another day and another failure.



I knew the dash switch was bad and so I replaced it today but it still does not actuate the motor. Although now the switch does draw current, which it did not do before. The stitch does heat up when it's being used, but cools down when it's in the normal state. I've tested the switch with a test light as well as a voltmeter. The battery is supplying 12v to the switch and when the switch is actuated either the brown or the tan is getting 12v.

I have now bypassed the safety switch AND the tailgate door switch. I was thinking that the door switch went bad and since it seems to be a PITA to get to the tailgate window switch, I decided to simplify the circuitry and I spliced the brown and tan wires that come from the dash switch directly to the brown and tan wires that go to the motor connector. When I hook up the test light, both wires will show to be getting steady current with the test light. If I put 12v from the battery directly to the motor, the motor powers up and goes up and down.

I have replaced both the 30A/12V circuit breakers under the dash.

When I crawl in the back with the voltmeter, I can't seem to get a steady/measurable voltage on the brown or tan wires where I spliced them together.....

So I'm thinking that somewhere there is a broken connection that is allowing some power to get to the tailgate motor, but not enough to power the motor. Does that sound right?

Is there anything else I should check?

I'm unsure where to go next....
__________________
1987 Grand Wagoneer Stock
The original owner kept it in a garage and barely drove it, I bought it in Sept of '15 with 107K miles on the clock... so many of the parts that I pull off are still AMC originals.

Gone But Not Forgotten:
1993 Jeep XJ Cherokee
2000 Jeep TJ Wrangler
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  #18  
Old 07-13-2019, 11:21 PM
SJTD SJTD is offline
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Location: Lompoc and Sunland, CA
Posts: 1,407
There's C157 that I mentioned above, three pin connector with BRN, TAN and WHT wires.

The other connector feeding the tailgate is C105 that's 8" or so from the firewall. It's the other end of the harness from C157 in back. It's got the BRN and TAN wires, the big ORN wire that feeds the key switch and some other wires for the tailgate like lights, defroster, maybe others.

From there it goes to the switch itself and the circuit breaker.

The dash switch provides the ground path for the tailgate motor so verify the BLK wire on the switch is a good ground.

The way it works is in the center position both BRN and TAN are grounded. When you move the switch one wire gets the 12V and the other stays grounded.

The rear switch in the center position passes both the BRN and TAN straight through. When you move it one wire gets the 12V and the other still goes through to provide the ground through the front switch.
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'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.
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  #19  
Old 07-14-2019, 07:54 AM
wiley-moeracing wiley-moeracing is offline
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Keep in mind the wiring from your switch to the motor, you can have only 1 strand of copper wire connected and it will show 12 volts but can not feed the correct amps through the wiring, so carefully check your harness all the way back and then your connections for good contact. Maybe easier to run new wires all the way back and safer too.
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  #20  
Old 07-14-2019, 08:27 AM
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babywag babywag is offline
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like sjtd stated check voltage @ connectors.

many many times the wiring inside tailgate is damaged.
either from being decades old, water intrusion damage or broken/damaged where it enters into tailgate.
the later being the most common.
similar to what you found on rear door.
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