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  #1  
Old 01-29-2019, 07:11 PM
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ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Nov 18, 2015
Location: Stephenson County, IL
Posts: 912
Windows frosted... INSIDE

Hey guy's, just thought of something a bit ago while on here that I've been experiencing. It's been getting colder lately (below 0) and we've been getting a lot of snow. So, that's keeping me quite busy (with my customers). Were down another vehicle (dads GC[battery])so he's drivin' the 'Burban and I've been forced to drive the Wag through all this shlop. Gotta say, my Jeep's full time 4X4 has been extremely impressive. Even with the Goodyear Wrangler Radials. Still haven't gotten stuck to the point of having to "rock" the vehicle back and forth, forward-reverse. and I've parked it in snow banks (along the street) as tall as the wheel wells, and driven through unplowed areas around 2 feet tall Leaving axle and spring marks in the snow


On to the subject. Over ownership of the Wagon, I've noticed it fogs up the worst out of all my vehicles on the inside. Especially if raining out and higher humidity. With the winter, it ices. I was on a trip to (and back) from a job today and noticed all my windows other than the windshield and tailgate glass became layered with a sheet of ice. (-2* outside) ALL the windows including the quarter panel glass. To the point where I could not see out through them. Took scrubbing with my glove to get a small piece clear.


What can I do about this? I don't want to scrape all the glass with a scraper, as this leaves marks. Then I got to clean the glass later... again Is there something I can try to keep this from happening?
Why do I have the problem with the wagon compared to the other vehicles? The others will do this, but not to this extant. What would you do? What are your guy's experiences?
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1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...not too rusty anymore
Plenty of patina

The others
1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan 212 I4-CRANK START
1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-5.0 AOD (WD)
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9, A999, 3.90 gear (DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban 5.7, 4L60E, NP241, 3.42 gear (DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0, AW4, NP231, 3.73 (limbo)
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  #2  
Old 01-29-2019, 07:32 PM
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Tripwire Tripwire is offline
hey,does anyone here know how to.......
 
Join Date: Jul 30, 2000
Location: WA State
Posts: 4,414
biggest culprits are ......

bad door seals. plugged door drain vents
plugged cowl vents allowing water in thru fresh air vents
missing/damaged door panel plastic barrier sheeting
roof rack grommets leaking causing swimming pool where the jack sits +the other side
lastly....a plugged AC drain...not relevant now LOL
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86 GrandWag. Howell fuel Injected 360. MSD Ignition + Dizzy. 727/229 swap BJ's 2" Lift and 31's

88 Wrangler 4.2, Howell TBI and MSD - Borla Headers w/ Cat-back + winch and 31's AND a M416 trailer (-:
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  #3  
Old 01-29-2019, 07:43 PM
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ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Nov 18, 2015
Location: Stephenson County, IL
Posts: 912
door seals...maybe. Few spots are torn, have chunks missing. Generally still nice and pliable. Door drain vents... Doors all clean inside. Been in everyone of them for maintenance (lock mechanism, window mechanisms, latch mechanisms, electrical checks/cleaning, and regular door cleanout)

Plugged cowl vents...Nope, that's all been cleaned out and a screen installed in the cowl panel under the windshield. + no more wet floors up front.

missing/damaged door panel plastic barrier... Nope, they are all good and sealed.


Roof rack grommet leaks... Nope. replaced the headliner and had no visible signs of such issues. Boards didn't have any water marks. New headline still looks good with no stains.

AC drains outside the vehicle... like it should.


I wouldnt think the seals would cause this much problems. My Suburbans seals dont look so hot, but it doesnt have much of this problem.

Maybe I just need to quit breathing.
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1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...not too rusty anymore
Plenty of patina

The others
1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan 212 I4-CRANK START
1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-5.0 AOD (WD)
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9, A999, 3.90 gear (DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban 5.7, 4L60E, NP241, 3.42 gear (DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0, AW4, NP231, 3.73 (limbo)
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  #4  
Old 01-29-2019, 07:53 PM
Tripwire's Avatar
Tripwire Tripwire is offline
hey,does anyone here know how to.......
 
Join Date: Jul 30, 2000
Location: WA State
Posts: 4,414
well...you take all the fun out of this LOL, ok....as click and clack would ask, what color is your rig

mine does the same to a point but i dont park outside
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86 GrandWag. Howell fuel Injected 360. MSD Ignition + Dizzy. 727/229 swap BJ's 2" Lift and 31's

88 Wrangler 4.2, Howell TBI and MSD - Borla Headers w/ Cat-back + winch and 31's AND a M416 trailer (-:
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  #5  
Old 01-29-2019, 08:09 PM
ZackN920's Avatar
ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Nov 18, 2015
Location: Stephenson County, IL
Posts: 912
ha!.... Well, it looks brown. But its actually a deteriorated Black Cherry Metallic
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1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...not too rusty anymore
Plenty of patina

The others
1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan 212 I4-CRANK START
1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-5.0 AOD (WD)
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9, A999, 3.90 gear (DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban 5.7, 4L60E, NP241, 3.42 gear (DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0, AW4, NP231, 3.73 (limbo)
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  #6  
Old 01-29-2019, 08:11 PM
ZackN920's Avatar
ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Nov 18, 2015
Location: Stephenson County, IL
Posts: 912
Yup. Driveway parking here out in the elements.
__________________
1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...not too rusty anymore
Plenty of patina

The others
1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan 212 I4-CRANK START
1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-5.0 AOD (WD)
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9, A999, 3.90 gear (DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban 5.7, 4L60E, NP241, 3.42 gear (DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0, AW4, NP231, 3.73 (limbo)
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  #7  
Old 01-30-2019, 07:43 AM
bwwhaler's Avatar
bwwhaler bwwhaler is offline
258 I6
 
Join Date: Apr 17, 2012
Location: Wilmington NC
Posts: 348
Sounds like you have everything in order to combat any moisture intrusion, I guess your culprit is just the humidified air that enters the vehicle from ambient conditions. Unlike the modern cars that have the hvac systems that are combined and dehumidify, the fsj's just can't do it, unless you can run your A/C and heat at the same time. I would like to know from people that have switched to the vintage air units if they still experience the same problems with moisture after switching over.
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  #8  
Old 01-30-2019, 09:25 AM
Wagoneer Taylor's Avatar
Wagoneer Taylor Wagoneer Taylor is offline
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Join Date: Dec 17, 2018
Location: OR
Posts: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwwhaler
Sounds like you have everything in order to combat any moisture intrusion, I guess your culprit is just the humidified air that enters the vehicle from ambient conditions. Unlike the modern cars that have the hvac systems that are combined and dehumidify, the fsj's just can't do it, unless you can run your A/C and heat at the same time. I would like to know from people that have switched to the vintage air units if they still experience the same problems with moisture after switching over.

I too wonder this.

My apologies I don't have any better ideas either. Mine does this to an extent but i currently have rust holes through the floor and no carpet
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  #9  
Old 01-30-2019, 10:01 AM
SJTD SJTD is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Apr 26, 2012
Location: Lompoc and Sunland, CA
Posts: 1,368
Yeah the lack of dehumidified recirc is the problem, especially in the rain when the heater is pulling in humid outside air.

Maybe not so much in the snow since the moisture content of 30* air is pretty low.

How about cracking the tailgate window a bit and running the heater on high? That would pull in dry outside air to replace the humid air inside.

This reminds me of trips to Florida. Windshield fogged on the OUTSIDE down in the corners due to the high humidity and the glass being cold from the AC.
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  #10  
Old 01-30-2019, 10:43 AM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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Location: The Great Googley Moogley Midwest.
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crack open a wing window. common issue on these older cars of all makes.
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Ristows right.................again,




Quote:
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... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.




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I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!


→ Where the kids hang out...

fsjbuilder.org come for the mindless chat,stay for the hand drawn emoticons.

It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...
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  #11  
Old 01-30-2019, 01:43 PM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Location: Camarillo, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZackN920
... It's been getting colder lately (below 0) and we've been getting a lot of snow...
From what I keep seeing on the news, this is a gross underexaggeration. LOL! National Weather service is putting out some crazy stats on how cold you guys are. Gees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZackN920
...Leaving axle and spring marks in the snow
...all my windows other than the windshield and tailgate glass became layered with a sheet of ice. (-2* outside) ALL the windows including the quarter panel glass. To the point where I could not see out through them. Took scrubbing with my glove to get a small piece clear...
Pictures or it never happened

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZackN920
...What can I do about this? I don't want to scrape all the glass with a scraper, as this leaves marks. Then I got to clean the glass later... again Is there something I can try to keep this from happening?
Why do I have the problem with the wagon compared to the other vehicles? The others will do this, but not to this extant. What would you do? What are your guy's experiences?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJTD
Yeah the lack of dehumidified recirc is the problem, especially in the rain when the heater is pulling in humid outside air.

Maybe not so much in the snow since the moisture content of 30* air is pretty low.

How about cracking the tailgate window a bit and running the heater on high? That would pull in dry outside air to replace the humid air inside.
This is spot on.

Plus, we often close all the vents and trap all the moisture from our bodies inside as we drive so as we breath out, we make it even more humid. Then when we get where we are going we close the doors/turn off the heater/defroster and all our moisture freezes to the cold windows. Then when you get back in, you add another layer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ristow
crack open a wing window. common issue on these older cars of all makes.
Maybe also park it with the windows cracked/vent windows open?
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  #12  
Old 01-30-2019, 02:14 PM
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timwiller timwiller is offline
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Join Date: May 15, 2014
Location: Fordland, MO. near Springfield
Posts: 51
X3

what ristow said..imagine that...
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  #13  
Old 01-31-2019, 01:23 AM
FSJunkie's Avatar
FSJunkie FSJunkie is offline
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Join Date: Jan 09, 2011
Location: Not The Hot Part, Arizona
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Excess humidity inside the car.

The defroster isn't much help because it just pulls in outside air (which may be humid) and heats it. Blowing warm and humid air into a car with cold windows is a great way to fog/frost the inside of the glass, along with every cold surface inside the car. The glass will eventually clear after you get it warm enough, but until then it'll just fog/frost worse.

This is why better vehicle HVAC systems turn on the air conditioning when the defrost setting is selected. This setting passes the outside air through the A/C evaporator to ehumidify before passing the air through the heater core to warm it. This warm and dry air is perfect for defogging/defrosting.

My 1973 Ambassador actually has both a defog and a defrost position on it's HVAC control. Defrost just heats the incoming air, defog dehumdifies and heats the incoming air. The defrost setting on my 1977 Pontiac is the same as the defog setting on my Ambassador: heat plus A/C together.
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I love how arguements end as soon as Ristow comments. Ristow is right...again.
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  #14  
Old 01-31-2019, 06:43 PM
ZackN920's Avatar
ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Nov 18, 2015
Location: Stephenson County, IL
Posts: 912
hmm, well on rainy days that I'm having issue I usually keep the side rear windows cracked about 1/2". That does help somewhat-to a point. Sometimes, the same with the front as well. With it being cold out, I haven't been thinking much on keeping windows cracked.


What's weird with the trip I was talking about most recently is that it really fogged and iced over after I got to where I was going, while it was sitting parked! I should mention, that I was hauling a snow blower in the back. Some snow on that, snow on the tarp underneath it, and some other equipment.
Someone mentioned cracking the tailgate glass-I try not too. I usually get some exhaust inside when I leave it open. I think it already leaks back there a bit. (Its not air tight)

So the whole HVAC set up makes sence to me guys. Thanks for bringin that up. I did know the general gist, but never really think much about it.
hmm, If that Ambassodor and Pontiac have that feature i'm surprised the "luxerious" Grand Wagoneer didnt have it too...

Rango!- I was more so talking about the days prior to Wednesday and Thursday. It hadn't been all that cold compared to yesterday and today. I've been out in it most days 8+ hours to clean snow. I'll be doing the same tomorrow since temps are going back above 0 and we are (supposedly) getting 3" tonight. But yea, I haven't been out for these 2 days. Heck, this morning it was -29* regular temp. -60 with the wind-chill. We had 1 pipe freeze up in the house, but didn't take it to too long to get it flowing again.

Your not missing much man, but since ya want it i'll bring the camera tomorrow and take some pics of the snow. Its got pumpkin and leaf marks in it... Hmm, if I can get a prop, maybe I'll record a short vid of the Jeep going through a small section.


Hmm, you mention park it with windows open. I looked out at it yesterday (from in the house) and noticed all the frost was gone!?


Hey, would it help to open the cowl vents a bit while driving? I'm most the time lately wearing snow pants, so I wouldn't even feel it.
__________________
1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...not too rusty anymore
Plenty of patina

The others
1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan 212 I4-CRANK START
1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-5.0 AOD (WD)
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9, A999, 3.90 gear (DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban 5.7, 4L60E, NP241, 3.42 gear (DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0, AW4, NP231, 3.73 (limbo)
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  #15  
Old 01-31-2019, 11:30 PM
SJTD SJTD is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Apr 26, 2012
Location: Lompoc and Sunland, CA
Posts: 1,368
I'm thinking you want flow through ventilation. That's why I suggested running the heater with the rear cracked. Hopefully enough flow to keep exhaust out.

Cowl vents would do the same thing but only while moving.
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  #16  
Old 02-01-2019, 08:50 AM
JeepJeepster JeepJeepster is offline
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Location: Kentucky
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Had the same thing happening to me but in my 2004 Jeep. I hardly ever use the defog as I think its insane to run the A/C in the winter. You cant do this in a GW, but I put the heat on face/floor and directed the vents at the front side windows. Problem fixed. It was -2F when it happened yesterday and I started out in a warm garage.

As others have said, the Hvac isnt the best setup in the GW. Ever rode in the back in the winter? You wont be able to feel your feet.
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  #17  
Old 02-01-2019, 10:23 PM
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ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Nov 18, 2015
Location: Stephenson County, IL
Posts: 912
SJTD-Well, if the glass is down only 1/2" or so maybe that would really help. I'll have to try it sometime.


JJster-You know, I've tried the same with my suburban before(for the back) and it actually made things worse... I had the rear ceiling vents pointed at the windows, rear heat blasting hot air-and they fogged even faster and stayed that way... Until I set it to floor and cracked the windows an inch.
I cant say that I've been in the back of one of these Jeeps in the winter...
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1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...not too rusty anymore
Plenty of patina

The others
1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan 212 I4-CRANK START
1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-5.0 AOD (WD)
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9, A999, 3.90 gear (DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban 5.7, 4L60E, NP241, 3.42 gear (DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0, AW4, NP231, 3.73 (limbo)
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  #18  
Old 02-03-2019, 06:09 PM
ZackN920's Avatar
ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Nov 18, 2015
Location: Stephenson County, IL
Posts: 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by rang-a-stang
Pictures or it never happened
Ok, this is for you Rang!

Pumpkin and Leaf spring marks!


I drove through that pile of snow a short while after this next pic was taken


…and heres how it looked after I went through that pile of snow...


Here the path I made behind the heated building I work in

I was thinking about making a video for ya, going through my path behind the building, but last time I went through, the ass darn near slid into the little shack ya see on the left of that photo. I checked the ground and its nothin but ice, and since it was just me there, I decided not too. I dont want to unessiarily side swipe the Jeep or damage the buildings on the property, or get stuck.
__________________
1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...not too rusty anymore
Plenty of patina

The others
1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan 212 I4-CRANK START
1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-5.0 AOD (WD)
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9, A999, 3.90 gear (DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban 5.7, 4L60E, NP241, 3.42 gear (DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0, AW4, NP231, 3.73 (limbo)
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  #19  
Old 02-03-2019, 06:20 PM
ZackN920's Avatar
ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Nov 18, 2015
Location: Stephenson County, IL
Posts: 912
Anyone else having weird posting problems? Half of my last post didn't want to show. I had to edit it and re add what was missing. I also noticed that all my smileys I put in are gone! WTF is goin' on?


Anyways-
I was in the local menards today and noticed something interesting on the shelf in the automotive section.
here's the link I found a bit ago for it:
https://www.menards.com/main/tools-h...1761011106.htm
It's called "Auto Select Moisture Absorbing Pouch". It was under $5, so for the hell of it, I picked up a pack. Supposedly it helps remove moisture. It says to throw it under a seat and forget about it for up to 6 months. Treats up to a 500 cubic foot space, keep moisture related odors down, and (what I need) KEEP GLASS CLEAN!
Anyone think this junk will actually work, or even tried it (or something like it) before?

I'll see how it goes for myself.
__________________
1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...not too rusty anymore
Plenty of patina

The others
1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan 212 I4-CRANK START
1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-5.0 AOD (WD)
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9, A999, 3.90 gear (DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban 5.7, 4L60E, NP241, 3.42 gear (DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0, AW4, NP231, 3.73 (limbo)
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  #20  
Old 02-04-2019, 03:33 PM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Location: Camarillo, CA
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Those are awesome!!!! Holy cats!

I hope that bag works! I have to run my defroster alot on my Mazda and it kills my mileage. Would be nice to throw a bag under the seat and not worry about. Though... I doubt it'll work.
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