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  #21  
Old 04-01-2019, 09:39 PM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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I got a bunch of covers here , sometimes the covers are just wore out. I’ll run a good own cover over a gimmicked up Chinese pos every time.

Your clearances are fine. You really need to verify with a mechanical gauge. Especially if you have replaced the oil sender, the new ones make the gauge even more unreliable.
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  #22  
Old 04-01-2019, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rang-a-stang
Idle was 750 at last OP check. This BIN I lowered it to 650 but have not started on this BIN yet.

My Machinist receipt says Mains are .0023 (plus or minus .003) and rods are .0026. 1979 Service manual for 360 says the correct clearance is .0017 to .0020 on No 1-4 mains and .0025 to .003 for the rear main. I do not see a clearance for the rods. This means I am out of tolerance and that may be the source of my low OP.

Does anyone have a service manual with 401 tolerances? Are they the same? I am hoping the Steel crank needs slightly higher clearances? I am about soil myself if they are the same or tighter....

That is why I didn't pay the shop $300 to assemble my LT1.
I used a mic and have my sheet with every clearance. I don't trust anybody these days.
What's with the +/- .003??? that's very ODD is that a typo?
They couldn't even bore the thing right and I had to bring it back for a 2nd round.
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  #23  
Old 04-02-2019, 02:52 AM
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FSJunkie FSJunkie is offline
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I get so tired of machinists building AMC engines to Chevy clearances.

Nearly all of the problems people experience on AMC V8's is not the fault of the lubrication system. It's the fault of improper clearances. People then modify the lubrication system as a stopgap to cover up for improper clearances.

Buick engines are worse. Same problems but much, much worse. One of them built to Chevy clearances makes 0 PSI at idle, 20 PSI going down the road, and will last a few thousand miles at the most before it wipes out every bearing in the bottom end and trashes the crank in the process. Buicks have to be built very tight. Almost modern engine tight. AMC engines are not quite to that point but it's the same idea.
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  #24  
Old 04-02-2019, 07:08 AM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
What's with the +/- .003??? that's very ODD is that a typo?
DANG IT!!! TYPO!!!! should have been +/- .0003! Receipt:


Looking at Plasticboob's post (74 shop manual) it looks like these clearances are spot on for 401? SO I think I let this ride until I get the mechanical oil pressure gauge AND I replace my timing cover.
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  #25  
Old 04-02-2019, 08:10 AM
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babywag babywag is offline
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That's better. .003 is a huge +/-
Still lame stating +/- .0003 though, that's just lazy so it could be tight as .0020 or loose as .0026.
Just outta curiosity what did they charge you for the lack of actual info on clearances? yes I am picky/anal
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Last edited by babywag : 04-02-2019 at 08:15 AM.
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  #26  
Old 04-02-2019, 10:51 AM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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I think that mock up line was $49? I'll verify tonight. I took that picture as I was heading out the door this morning. I had them do it because they are 45 minutes away; that money saved me a few back and forths to his shop. By having him do it, I gave him a box or bearings and my engine and he returned a short block ready for assembly.

Another lesson learned I will add to my build thread: make sure to specify the correct clearances if you are paying the shop to set them.

mechanical OP gauge gets here tomorrow. I hope to install it Thursday.
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  #27  
Old 04-02-2019, 02:39 PM
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SC/397 SC/397 is offline
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Here are the bearing clearances for 1969.
Mains .001" - .002"
Rear Main .002" - .003"
Rods .001" - .002"
Both of my machinist usually hit .0015" - .002" on both the rods and mains.
Some of the low oil pressure issue could be due to oil pump end clearance. I lap the timing cover to get near zero clearance with the gasket in place.

The grooves inside the housing don't seem to affect oil pressure as much as the end clearance.

I personally wouldn't buy any after market timing cover nor would I use a mid plate. If you want to send your timing cover, oil pump, and oil pump cover to me I could tune it up for you and at least eliminate that variable.

Which brand bearings did you use? King bearings run to the big side compared to Clevite.

Last edited by SC/397 : 04-02-2019 at 02:59 PM.
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  #28  
Old 04-02-2019, 03:49 PM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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Yah, I wonder if he has full groove main bearings , that will bring pressure down a bit. ACL are full groove as I recall.
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Originally Posted by Hankrod
Ristows right.................again,




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!


→ Where the kids hang out...

fsjbuilder.org come for the mindless chat,stay for the hand drawn emoticons.

It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...
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  #29  
Old 04-02-2019, 04:00 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Sigh...

I used Clevite 77's all the way around.

I am going to pick up another (OEM) timing cover tomorrow morning and re-do the oil pump in the coming week or two. I think I must have done a poor job clearanceing this one. (AND I still need to verify my oil pressure gauge) I may take you up on the offer, Rick. I'll PM you for payment and shipping.

They are half groove mains. I posted up asking for recommendations when I was getting ready to buy them and your (Ristows) advice was to avoid the full groove mains.

So with clearances this wide, am I doomed to run 20W-50 for the life of this motor?
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Last edited by rang-a-stang : 04-02-2019 at 04:12 PM.
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  #30  
Old 04-02-2019, 06:21 PM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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Cleverest are good. Your clearances are fine. Get a better cover. Also you were crushing filters, you may have other issue too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hankrod
Ristows right.................again,




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!


→ Where the kids hang out...

fsjbuilder.org come for the mindless chat,stay for the hand drawn emoticons.

It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...
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  #31  
Old 04-02-2019, 11:44 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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I only crushed the crappy Fram. I thought I crushed the second one but when I removed it, it looked OK inside.

Tonight I ran it with the 20W-50. It had about 12PSI hot idle pressure. MUCH better but hopefully I can get more; I am still going to get a better timing cover and another oil pump. Just not sure when they will get swapped on.
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  #32  
Old 04-09-2019, 08:04 AM
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fulsizjeep fulsizjeep is offline
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I would not spend any more money on oiling until you get the new gauge hooked up and see what you have. Krista and I gradually watched the oil pressure drop on her 401 over about a year. I feared the worse and put new gears and mid-plate in the pump and netted the same oil pressure. Then I swapped the sender out. Same same. Guess what? I hooked up an after market oil gauge to discover we had great oil pressure.
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  #33  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:57 AM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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I am doing both (gauge and oil pump). When I am warm (and my stock gauge reads 10psi) I can hear my lifters ticking. I re-adjusted all my rockers and no change. So, I am going to re-do the oil pump and while I am in there, I am going to install the mechanical/aftermarket oil pressure gauge.
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  #34  
Old 04-11-2019, 11:41 AM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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you sure a galley plug didn't get installed or something? maybe a cam bearing didn't get installed? you have no pressure,that oil is going somewhere. the way you collapsed that fram indicates a large volume of oil moving thru the filter,yet no pressure. it is not the main and rod bearing doing this.



id would stop driving it before you wipe a bearing out and have to grind the crank again.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hankrod
Ristows right.................again,




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!


→ Where the kids hang out...

fsjbuilder.org come for the mindless chat,stay for the hand drawn emoticons.

It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...
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  #35  
Old 04-11-2019, 12:33 PM
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babywag babywag is offline
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I'd just install the freakin' gauge already....sheesh
Your in dash could be reading higher than what you have? too.

Even @ 10 the lifters/rockers shouldn't be making noise.
I'd be on the phone with the machine shop too, in case it's something they screwed up on.
Need to document the issue so to speak w/ them before you tear into it.
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  #36  
Old 04-11-2019, 02:55 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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I am not touching it for a while. I haven't started it since Friday and don't plan on touching it again for at least 2 more weeks. I have another timing cover and filter adapter I am going to send to SC/397 for him to blueprint (because I am 90% sure I did not do mine right). I do not plan to start my rig again until I am pulling it into my garage to swap timing covers and install the mechanical gauge.

I distinctly remember installing the 2 oil galley plugs in the back (by the flex plate) when I picked up the block because I did it before I installed the block on the engine stand (if they were missing, I would be puking oil all down my flex plate anyway). I remember installing the 2 on the front before the timing gear went on because I remember reading about some people drilling a tiny hole in them, the pros/cons to doing that, and deciding not to drill the holes. Then I remember I had to go buy 2 new plugs for the lifter valley becuase the plug kit I bought only came with 4 plugs so I am confident those are on there, too. All 6 of them had The Right Stuff slurred around the threads before they were driven down deep into their homes.

So I opened my second filter (Wix) and it was normal and clean. I think the Fram was crushed because it was so filled with assembly lube and it was so crappy but as a wise man once said "that oil is going somewhere."

oooohhhhhh crraaapppp.....
I drilled some oil drain back holes in my lifter valley after seeing SC/397 do it on this build (you can see them in the first picture in this thread).
AMC 360 Stroker (383) for Donzi
I wonder if I punctured/drilled into an oil galley...? I tried to be super careful not to but now I think need to check... You can see my holes here. I only did the smaller ones.


So when I pull my timing cover, I guess I'll pull my intake, too. After the new cover/pump are installed I will spin up the oil pump and see if any oil leaks out any of these holes. If it does, I'll tap them and put a brass plug in them. Oh man....
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  #37  
Old 04-11-2019, 07:27 PM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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im doubtful you hit a oil galley with those holes. but if you did you tap the hole all the way thru and put a allen plug in it with red locktite.


who put the cam bearings in? all of them are in?


every wore out AMC with bad oil pressure ive had,and its been a lot,has had de-laminated cam bearings in it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hankrod
Ristows right.................again,




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!


→ Where the kids hang out...

fsjbuilder.org come for the mindless chat,stay for the hand drawn emoticons.

It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...
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  #38  
Old 04-11-2019, 09:34 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Machinist installed the cam bearings. I gave him the set in a new/sealed box. I remember looking in to see them installed when I picked it up the block and know I saw at least 2 of them and am pretty certain I saw all 4 of them. I can be absent minded but I am pretty sure I checked all of them since I paid him, IMHO, a lot to install them. I also received back, all 4 of the old bearings so I do know they were R/R'ed (they were very worn, showing lots of copper). I do remember, when I installed my cam, feeling it slide through each bearing as it went in so I am pretty confident they are all in there. I would think that if one of them was missing, I would make almost no pressure at all, even when cold but I am getting 20'ish at cold idle.

I just think between me probably doing a poor job on the oil pump and the slightly too big clearances in my crank/rod bearings, that's where my pressure is going. When I adjusted my rockers on Friday, I cranked it over before I put the valve covers on and had oil at all 16 rockers so I had some pressure and flow.

When I do my pump, I will also install the mechanical gauge. I will spin the pump with my drill and make sure I get oil at all 16 rockers and nothing is spilling out those holes I drilled. Then I will button it all back up and see where I am at. If oil pressure is still low, I'll dig deeper.
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Last edited by rang-a-stang : 04-11-2019 at 09:44 PM.
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  #39  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:40 PM
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Did you have this aluminum block-off plate seated all the way tight?
IMG_1648 by Rick Jones, on Flickr
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  #40  
Old 05-20-2019, 02:55 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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I did. At least I am pretty sure I did. The parts i sent you are not the ones that I had on my Jeep. Ill verify them when I pull it apart (hopefully) this weekend.
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Last edited by rang-a-stang : 05-20-2019 at 03:03 PM.
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