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  #1  
Old 01-19-2002, 02:50 AM
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Kimbrough Kimbrough is offline
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Just a thought... tadsal and I were commisserating about how to lift his older-model Wag since they have shorter-length rear springs and therefore no one makes an all-spring lift for them.

My question is: Since Wrangler (square-headlight) owners often use Wag springs to lift their vehicles, what about using Wrangler rear springs to lift older Wags???
If someone could measure the front and rear spring lengths of a Wrangler and measure the rear springs of and older model Wag eye to eye - will it work??? Will they fit?

Just curious... [img]smile.gif[/img]
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  #2  
Old 01-19-2002, 03:14 AM
River Beast River Beast is offline
 
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I don't think they will handle the weight....one thins I just though of though...

What if you bought a lift for the 74 and ups....dissembled the leaf packs, and added the main spring from the OEM packs... just a thought
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  #3  
Old 01-19-2002, 03:16 AM
64Trvlr 64Trvlr is offline
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That would be nice if it worked, I'd like to lift my 66 wag.
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  #4  
Old 01-19-2002, 03:54 AM
River Beast River Beast is offline
 
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I took some pics and measurements... sent them to Don (Gladi8r)..... he's looking into it right now and what mods need to be done to make it work....

The biggest problem might be the length of the OEM main leaf...will it take the arch of the lift and not be too short.....

that is the question of the day....
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  #5  
Old 01-19-2002, 04:11 AM
jeepbob jeepbob is offline
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The biggest problem will be with the oddball spring eye on the front of the rear main leaf (and the front of the front on J trucks). I have an idea that has been bouncing around in my head for several months and will draw it up. There seems to be enough interest in it and I am not happy with the way my wag is currently. It will involve some cutting and welding but will be actually simple to build. More in a few days.
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  #6  
Old 01-19-2002, 04:50 AM
miked miked is offline
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i've got the stock front springs from my 69 out in my storage, I could measure those, the rears have been re-arched and are on the wag - they ain't coming off without a battle...

my understanding of replacement springs was/is:

1) same width
2) same thickness
3) length determines order/location in the spring pack

i'd be curious to see what the spring rate and number of springs in the pack are for the wranglers, I think that these numbers would give a good indication of how well the wrangler springs would fit in a FSJ rear spring pack

be interested to see tadsal's initial reaction post upgrade, i'd have to go back and re-read his original post to see exactly what he's after and what he's doing to get there but it looks good so far.

from offroad.com I found this info this morning on spring rates:

There are four physical dimensions that can affect the spring rate of a leaf pack: number of leaves, leaf length, leaf width, and leaf thickness. The table below shows the affect that increasing each of these dimensions has on the spring rate of the pack.


Dimension Increased - Effect on Rate

Number of Leaves - Higher
Leaf Length - Lower
Leaf Width - Higher
Leaf Thickness - Higher


The equation below can be used to estimate the spring rate of a given leaf spring pack:

Spring Rate = E x (2 + [n.sub.full]/[n.sub.tot]) x [n.sub.tot] x w x [t.sup.3]/0.75 x [I.sup.3]

[n.sub.tot] = total number of leaves nfull = number of full length leaves E = Young's modulus (29,900,000) w = leaf spring width (inches) t = leaf spring thickness per leaf (inches) I = spring pack length (inches)

For example, let's calculate the spring rate for a leaf pack with five leaves, two of which are full-length leaves. Assume we have a 2.5-inch-wide spring, with leaves that are each 0.230-inch thick. The eye-to-eye leaf pack length is 45 inches.

Plugging these values into the equation above gives us a spring rate of 160 lbf/in. That means it would take approximately 160 pounds of force to compress this spring through its first inch of travel. From there, the spring rate will typically rise as more of the springs in the pack come into use.


I couldn't figure out how the formula worked, i plugged the numbers in and came out with a rate of 44348.715 -- seems too high for some reason...

[ January 19, 2002: Message edited by: miked ]</p>
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  #7  
Old 01-19-2002, 02:09 PM
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Tad Tad is offline
 
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miked-
Can't wait to see my reaction myself. Looking to get 3"-4" of lift on the '70 Wagoneer through rearching and adding a secondary main spring. Not really concerned with the stiffness of the ride yet (drove a '51 Willys with Ranchos in front, was like a brick, for 15 years). Would like to get 33's (or possibly this set of 35's I have) under there. Thinking real seriously about WT fenders in front and reworking the rears with flares or WT quater panels. Got one side on today (still be out there now but have some visitors here) and will do other tomorrow.
I actually think a stock, rearched main spring with another pack underneath would work fine depending on the spring rate, length, width and where the center bolt actually hits.
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  #8  
Old 01-19-2002, 03:42 PM
miked miked is offline
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tadsal,

Those springs are a battle to get on, but you've inspired me to think seriously about getting my front springs swapped out, those rancho fronts are too hard for me. I only got an 1.5" or so out of the same re-arch-and-new-spring-under-the-main-spring setup on my rear springs. i was thinking about adding 2 springs to the front pack after re-arch, one under the main and another under the 2nd spring, I'd be happy with 2" (hey now!) of lift
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Do the Single Relay Headlight Wiring Upgrade for Early Jeep Wagoneers modification...
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  #9  
Old 01-19-2002, 11:17 PM
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Tad Tad is offline
 
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miked-
I think a lot of the stiffness (I am by no means a suspension expert) with the Ranchos came from how thick the springs were. I had to sell the Willys (stripped down of course) to pay for this suspension, but as I remember those Ranchos were like 3/8" thick. I could drop that thing off the hilift jack from about a foot and it would barely move. If I only wind up with 1 1/2" of lift out of this I'll still be happy (at least I'll have some useable springs under there) I'll see what it is when it's done and at worst fab a body lift for it.
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IFSJA WMS PROJECT
EARLY WAG LIFT SEARCH

Quote:
...Pay no attention to these heathen barbarians with their cutting torches and 8" lift kits!...

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  #10  
Old 01-20-2002, 07:12 AM
jeepbob jeepbob is offline
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I used the performance accessories 3"lift for later Wags and added a couple more blocks to get a 3" body lift kit for my 65 Wag. By doing the lift I described in another post and the 3" body lift I run 33 x 12.50's with the only rubbing being at full front stuff on a hard landing. The left front rubbed the front of the front fender.

[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: jeepbob ]</p>
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  #11  
Old 01-21-2002, 07:24 AM
Davey Davey is offline
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I had rear springs manufactured for my '74 wagoneer. They are in fact shorter than the ones on my '78 wag. This might be another option for you. The spring shop that made them for me is called Benz Spring Co. in Portland, Oregon. (you may have a shop closer to you). Their ph. # is 503 224-4865. They can make them to your specifications and arched for your specific lift height.
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