New FSJ Project Build : Guatemalan GW for Missionary

[Greg Taylor]

**** 05/27/2009 EDIT ****
Elliott recommended that I edit this first post with a need/want list for the buildup, so that we can see what's covered and what's not, and who has donated parts so far. See way below in the next **** section for the list, including the "christmas wish list" stuff.
*********************


Hey guys,
A very cool guy and long time member on the FSJ-List (who wants to remain anonymous) donated his nice '87 GW to my buddy Tim, who is a missionary in Guatemala (Central America just south of Mexico.

The GW is in nice shape and only needs the rockers replaced (new ones were included!) and the rear quarters patched up ... all which will be done in Guatemala, once it's down there (body work is rediculously cheap in Guate).

It currently has a tad over 100,000 on the odometer, with a remanned 360 from another Jeep installed, which runs fine, other than the 2-bbl Holley giving fits at cold-start with the choke settings.

It sports a 3" lift and 31" Perelli tires. Other than that, it's stock. 360 V8, 727 auto and NP229 t-case. I don't know if it has a rear Trac-lok or not.

My buddy Tim currently has a Dodge Dakota in Guatemala, which is getting the SNOT beat out of it, on the mountain "roads" which he has to travel to get to some pretty remote mountain villages. Driving in Guatemala's mountains is well ... more like serious offroading ... sometimes the paved roads even become CRAZY really fast, due to rain storms washing out hugh sections of roads, which don't get repaired for weeks or months.

Suffice to say, we want to build up Tim's new GW so that it is READY for the trip down and it's new life off-roading thru Guatemala. So, I'm starting this thread to get input and build interest in the project.

We need your tried-n-true expertise in building up this GW to last. We already know from seeing how the Dakota (2" body lift and 31" tires) is getting beat up bad, that we need to higher ground clearance with the GW to clear some of the rocks Tim will be dealing with on the mountain "roads".

Here are some of the ideas we have been tossing around ...

1) 6" lift
2) 2" body lift
3) 33-35" tires (currently has F/R Dana 44's 3.31 gears)
4) Holley Street Dominator intake
5) Holley or Howell TBI system (sea level to 10,000 feet driving)
7) Shackle Flip (instead of #1)

Now I know that some of you guys have built some serious off-roading rigs. What are you thoughts on getting this GW set up right for "wheeling"? What SHOULD we focus on and what should we IGNORE? As always, money IS an issue, since this is missionary work we're talking about.

Lastly, if anyone has parts that they would like to donate towards this build up, they would be tax deductible. Tim's organization www.hopefortomorrow.org is non-profit (501c3).

Thanks for the feedback on this, guys!





************* HERE'S THE LIST ***************

1) Hydroboost : DONATED by Elliott (thanks!)
2) 4-bbl Holley Street Dominator Intake Manifold : DONATED by Greg Taylor
3) 4" Lift Springs : DONATED by Greg Taylor
4) Drop Pitman Arm
5) Extended brake lines
6) 4" lift shocks
7) D44HD/D60 FSJ Axles or equivalent (DSD) : DONATED (J20 Donor)
8) Locker/Torque-sensing differentials (for stock D44's or D44HD/D60 combo)
9) Rear Tailgate access panel (missing from GW)
10) Big front bumper
11) Big rear bumper : Possibly use the J20 Donor rear bumper
12) Winch
13) Howell or Holley TBI system ... OR ... Off-road 4-bbl carburetor (holley flange pattern)
14) FSJ NP208 23-spline T-case/shifters : DONATED (J20 Donor)
15) Aux. Fuel Tank
16) Good FSJ York A/C compressor and related parts (Tim's is leaking)
17) Safari Rack
18) Rear disc brakes
19) FSJ DSD T18/NP208 combo (instead of # 14) (again a want, not a need)
20) CB Radio & antenna
21) Heddman Headers : DONATED by Greg Taylor
22) Off-road lights
23) Driver-side front fender for NT
24) Rear Window actuator assembly (Tim's is worn out and clunking)
25) Rear driveshaft for NP208 in a GW
26) Bushwacker XJ Pocket Flares for a 4-door
27) HEI dist. for AMC V8 : DONATED by Greg Taylor

************* END OF THE LIST ***************

[Elliott]

I think you should get this moved to the offroad section.

H1 rims/recentered so they can do thier own field swaps/repair

OBA to run tools

Tad rack for packing a load on long hauls

Aux tank

Winch/bumper

Detroit in the rear, Dodge D60 SRW and disc brakes

SRW D60 up front with high steer and high tierod

Swap the auto/229 out for a late model T18/NP208

Power steering cooler and hydroboost

[Greg Taylor]

Hi Elliot,
Thanks for the feedback & input. How do I move it to the Offroad forum and "why"?

I was working on an Aux tank in SoCal, but it's used. I'm thinking about calling up Aero Tanks and/or NWMP to see about one.

[Elliott]

You don't have to move it (would need the mods to do that anyway) it's just that this is great offroad build project here and many of the guys that frequent the offroad section don't spend much time over here in the general tech.

[Greg Taylor]

Hi Elliot,
OK, now I understand WHY it should be moved to the Off-Road forum. I'll ask a moderator about doing that.

[Greg Taylor]

Tank-Yew!

Thanks goes out to the moderator that moved this over from the General Tech forum.

[Dan Stewart]

I am wondering if you should put a small deisel in it. Just because isnt Diesel the fuel of choice down there? Or am I totally ignorant and Gas is available just as easily as Diesel. I would install a gear Tcase, just to simply things, a chain case with vacuum stuff is kind of complex for that type of operation. Sounds like a great build.

[Greg Taylor]

Dan,
Thanks for the input.

A 4BT from a bread-box truck would be great. Dean Jorgensen from the FSJ-List has one in his GW with a NV4500.

Both Gas and Diesel are available in Guatemala. Diesel is preferred probably because its cheaper and nets more MPGs.

Are you thinking a Dana 300 or Dana 20 or NP205 for gear-driven?

[ob1jeeper]

Guatemala has it's fair share of poor quality roads for sure...

To keep ANY vehicle that runs this type of surfaces, from being shook apart from the high-frequency inputs caused by significant amounts of pot-holes and washboard, you will want the total effective spring rate as low as practical, while still being able to handle whatever loads it must carry.

THE most cost effective thing that can be done to accomplish this goal, is to increase the volume of air in the tires (IE as large a diameter and section as is practical to fit), and lower the tire pressures. This combination will help lower the tires spring rate.

NOTE: Just don't lower the pressures so far that you run the risk of over-heating the side-walls due to deflection.

Also, I would caution you to not get over-the-top with lift springs, as nearly all of them have in the ballpark of DOUBLE the OEM suspension spring rates. While this is good from a load capacity standpoint, the problem is that rather than absorb the shock loading of the road inputs, it transmits those shock loads directly into the chassis, causing shortened life of ALL the vehicles systems and components.

If I were building a FSJ for that part of Central America, I'd have a set of springs built with approx 1.5-2" higher loaded camber, but retain the OEM leafe count and thickness. This will give you room to fit larger tires, while providing the lowest practical spring rate.

I would also have built, or fab up a set of bump stops that are approx 3/4" taller than the originals, but made of the same durometer (stiffness) Rubber ( a material that is MUCH more easily obtainable for replacements as needed in Central America). It should be tapered to approximate the original's shape with "pointy" side facing the axle, to provide a progressive softening of the impact when bottomed on un-expected pot-holes, etc.

I would also use either use 32x11.50 or 32x12.50 12.50 tires, and set tire pressures to the neighborhood of 18-25 psi, depending on loads carried, and average speeds.

Obviously higher pressures for higher loads and speeds averaging 50 +, and lower pressures for lighter loads and rougher roads where average speeds are under 50.

HTH... Good Luck

BTW: similar things could be done to his current vehicle to provide improvements to it's lifespan...

[Dan Stewart]

Also think about military wrap springs. This would give you the ability to limp home if the main eye breaks. Just a little backup to keep the truck stranded.

[Elliott]

If you run a shackle inversion in the rear and a D60 up front you'll have your 6" of lift running stock springs and won't have to worry about the increased arch/higher rates.

[Greg Taylor]

If you run a shackle inversion in the rear and a D60 up front you'll have your 6" of lift running stock springs and won't have to worry about the increased arch/higher rates.

If we go with the shackle flip and use the 3" springs, for a total of 10" lift ... what all will we need to do with the steering linkages to get the geometry "right"?

Thanks!

[JPSwapMohn]

I have spent a little time on some of those back mountain roads in NE Guat, and they turn to pure goo when the rains come.

I would not go too high with the lift (I think 10" is too high, but that's just me) as you will loose handling, etc.

I would recommend REALLY good brakes, disc front and back. Very good shocks and well-thought out tire selection (or one set for drier periods and one set for the mud..). You will absolutely need a locker in the rear, and maybe limited slip in the front (others with more mud experience would know better than I).

If keeping the NP229, just put it in 4Hi and forget about it..until you need 4Lo.

I have not experience the hydro-assist steering mods that some here have, but it sounds like a real good idea when you are trying to move 12.5" wide meats through 8" deep white goo..

You also want to think about putting a roll-cage of some sort in there. I don't think the waggy will fair too well if it goes upside down. The great view from all the windows comes with a price..

If you are putting a rack on it, go with gutter mount to help stiffen the body a little.

Winch/bumper as mentioned and a swing-out tire mount on the back if you go with an axillary tank and don't want the spare taking up cargo space.

Put some additional lights on it even if you decide not to put a rack up there. And put relays on the headlights to brighten them up some. He will thank you for it!

Those roads are dangerous as h3ll and they drive 'em like they are on I-95..

And I guess you can ship him parts as stuff breaks, cause he is not likely to find many AMC engines and such out there.

Wasn't there a brown cherokee on here somewhere that had a rather solid sort of exo-skeleton on it with bumpers and all the trimmings? Maybe just go buy it? He will have a heck of a rig if able to fit it out with everything folks have recommended here.

(an internal lockable hatch cut into the roof might be a good idea as well, depending on where he roams, and a pintle mount..)

There are some beautiful beautiful places out there that most folks will never be able to get to, but I think I would have chosen Belize if I were going to that part of the world for missionary work.. *^)

[JPSwapMohn]

Oh, and don't make it too pretty or too "bad ***" looking outwardly or he will not have it for long..

[Elliott]

If we go with the shackle flip and use the 3" springs, for a total of 10" lift ... what all will we need to do with the steering linkages to get the geometry "right"?

Thanks!

High steer and a drop pitman.