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  #1  
Old 09-04-2007, 12:28 PM
Sitting Bull Sitting Bull is offline
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Swapped in the S-10 box...WOW!

I just wanted to take a minute to give a thumbs-up for the s-10 steering box swap. Got it done on Monday...WOW! What an improvement over the stock steering. The Jeep now feels just like the xj did...nice and tight. I put in one of Tad's steering braces to supplement for that 4th missing bolt. So far...I am really...really...impressed.
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Old 09-04-2007, 07:56 PM
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I like my S-10 box too. Don't have the steering brace yet, but it still does great off road. Shoot, yesterday I was cruising the Chero on I-81 at 80mph and it was wonderful.
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Old 09-04-2007, 08:06 PM
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The steering box on my '79 j-10 is leaking some down by the seal above pitman arm.
Whats the short list of what i would need to upgrade to an s-10 box??
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  #4  
Old 09-04-2007, 08:32 PM
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mattmopar440 mattmopar440 is offline
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steering boxs

mines leaking

do they make more noise ??????
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  #5  
Old 09-04-2007, 08:43 PM
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Stuka Stuka is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shepherdskeep
I like my S-10 box too. Don't have the steering brace yet, but it still does great off road. Shoot, yesterday I was cruising the Chero on I-81 at 80mph and it was wonderful.

Funny, the stock boxes on both my jeeps were fine at 85+, never had an issue with them. I will take the extra strength of a full size steering box over the 'feel' of a 1/4 ton steering box anyday. Especially since putting a smaller steering wheel on gives it the same tight feeling.
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  #6  
Old 09-04-2007, 08:59 PM
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Gambler68 Gambler68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuka
Funny, the stock boxes on both my jeeps were fine at 85+, never had an issue with them. I will take the extra strength of a full size steering box over the 'feel' of a 1/4 ton steering box anyday. Especially since putting a smaller steering wheel on gives it the same tight feeling.

agreed. I have a much smaller than jeep Grant leatherwrap wheel on mine..steer with one finger @ 70 with 33" mud tires. (but not for long)
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  #7  
Old 09-04-2007, 09:15 PM
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The Anti-Chrysler The Anti-Chrysler is offline
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Ahh the S10 conversion...my discovery of a few years ago....

Nah, they are actually the same exact size, just the one bolt boss missing on the S10 box. Fullsize Chevy uses much larger bolts so those can't be used. The difference is in the ratio, and quality of the seals, etc. Besides the extra assist, I can't see how one's stronger than the other, besides the J20 box.

S10's are 1/2 ton's as far as capacity actually, a truck rated to only hold 500lbs is kind of silly.

The later S10 boxes are also variable ratio, which most of the FSJ's are not. You either love them or hate them, some people like the FSJ super assist, some don't. Of course it's cool either way.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuka
Funny, the stock boxes on both my jeeps were fine at 85+, never had an issue with them. I will take the extra strength of a full size steering box over the 'feel' of a 1/4 ton steering box anyday. Especially since putting a smaller steering wheel on gives it the same tight feeling.
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  #8  
Old 09-04-2007, 09:19 PM
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The Anti-Chrysler The Anti-Chrysler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwwdsn
The steering box on my '79 j-10 is leaking some down by the seal above pitman arm.
Whats the short list of what i would need to upgrade to an s-10 box??

Just 80+ stock FSJ power steering hoses (cause in 80+ they went to o-ring metric fittings versus the flared fittings you have now), and a steering box from a 95+ 4x4 S10 Blazer, pickup, Jimmy, Bravada, etc. As they are getting older now too, I would look for something from the 2000's era. You use your existing pitman arm on the S-10 box.

Just keep in mind that if you like the amount of assist you have in the steering now, that will be gone for a more late model truck feel. I always disliked how much assist the stock FSJ boxes have but there's certainly plenty of guys here that feel the exact opposite, like Brandon above.
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'82 J-10 Laredo, 360, T-177, 4" Rusty's
'85 J-10 (parts)
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  #9  
Old 09-04-2007, 09:47 PM
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wyldwdwest wyldwdwest is offline
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Bracket

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Anti-Chrysler
Just 80+ stock FSJ power steering hoses (cause in 80+ they went to o-ring metric fittings versus the flared fittings you have now), and a steering box from a 95+ 4x4 S10 Blazer, pickup, Jimmy, Bravada, etc. As they are getting older now too, I would look for something from the 2000's era. You use your existing pitman arm on the S-10 box.

Just keep in mind that if you like the amount of assist you have in the steering now, that will be gone for a more late model truck feel. I always disliked how much assist the stock FSJ boxes have but there's certainly plenty of guys here that feel the exact opposite, like Brandon above.

They mentioned using a bracket to compensate for the fourth hole issue. Where could someone find one and how much are they? Thanks for your time.
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  #10  
Old 09-04-2007, 10:44 PM
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shepherdskeep shepherdskeep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuka
Funny, the stock boxes on both my jeeps were fine at 85+, never had an issue with them. I will take the extra strength of a full size steering box over the 'feel' of a 1/4 ton steering box anyday. Especially since putting a smaller steering wheel on gives it the same tight feeling.

Woah now - my DD ain't no "1/4 ton" - it had 1,400lbs of AMC & Jeep parts in the bed a few weeks ago, and finally started to bottom out after carrying the parts around for a week. And my "1/4 ton" 4.3 will outpull almost any other normally aspirated 6cyl.
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  #11  
Old 09-04-2007, 10:48 PM
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shepherdskeep shepherdskeep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwwdsn
The steering box on my '79 j-10 is leaking some down by the seal above pitman arm.
Whats the short list of what i would need to upgrade to an s-10 box??

All you need is the gearbox from a late 90's or newer 4WD S-10/S-15, everything but one hole in the FSJ frame will bolt right up.

Some people say it won't hold up - but I've beat my Chero hard on the trails - even broke a front leaf spring pin & ripped the upper shock mount from the frame.....but the S-10 box is still going strong.
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Last edited by shepherdskeep : 09-04-2007 at 10:50 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-04-2007, 11:39 PM
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Stuka Stuka is offline
 
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You guys are aware that 1/4 ton doesnt mean it can only haul 500 pounds, just like a half ton doesnt mean it can only haul 1000 pounds. Its the suspension rating. The S10 is a compact truck with small running gear. Just like a ranger or a tacoma/hilux.

Not sure what was ment above about better seals. My old cherokees seals were 32 years old and were fine. Didnt leak a drop.

I am sure the S10 box feels nice on the street, but I fail to see the point offroad. The extra assist that the FSJ box gives is a VERY nice thing to have offroad when you have larger than stock tires.
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  #13  
Old 09-05-2007, 04:52 AM
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Glad that worked out for you Brad.
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  #14  
Old 09-05-2007, 06:49 AM
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The Anti-Chrysler The Anti-Chrysler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuka
You guys are aware that 1/4 ton doesnt mean it can only haul 500 pounds, just like a half ton doesnt mean it can only haul 1000 pounds. Its the suspension rating. The S10 is a compact truck with small running gear. Just like a ranger or a tacoma/hilux.

Not sure what was ment above about better seals. My old cherokees seals were 32 years old and were fine. Didnt leak a drop.

I am sure the S10 box feels nice on the street, but I fail to see the point offroad. The extra assist that the FSJ box gives is a VERY nice thing to have offroad when you have larger than stock tires.

Actually, every 4x4 S10 I've seen has a 1/2 ton rating, I don't know if there was a 1/4 ton, but not that I've seen. Not talking about what you can actually cram in there, talking GVWR. Moot point, of course.

I'm sure nobody would disagree that automotive seal technology has vastly improved in the last XX years???? I've owned about 10 FSJ's, and each and every one had a leaky P/S box, even low mileage vehicles. Surely they don't all, but all the ones I've had have. It's surely age-related more than anything else.

What I was saying above was that the swap isn't for everyone, but for some it's perfect. I completely agree, not as good for rock crawling, etc. but it shouldn't be discouraged for anyone who wants to do it, that's all.
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  #15  
Old 09-05-2007, 07:26 AM
Sitting Bull Sitting Bull is offline
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Well...regardless of the naysayers...I LOVE IT! I would hate to think how much money I have spent on my Jeep, but I can say this is by far the best bang-for-the-buck money I've spent.

I don't get the comparison saying it's a lighter duty box. The S-10 box is the same size as the SJ, the valve is just a variable ratio. From the info I gathered, the variable ratio is from 13:1 to 17:1, depending on how far the wheel is turned. The SJ box is always 17:1. The gear sizes, pitman arm, hose size, etc. are all the exact same. I used a steering brace from Tad to supplement the missing mounting hole, so now I have five points to spread out the load, where the stock configuration only has 4.

But regardless, I dropped the "only-increase-in-off-road-performance-counts" quite a while ago. I wheel a few times a year...but I take the family on little jaunts in it quite often. I built this to have fun with in a variety of situations...if I built it only to wheel...I certainly would do things different. But for the Jeeper that uses it as utilitarian vehicle instead of off-road-only...this is great. I go to Home Depot alot more often than I go to Tellico. When I'm at Tellico, I'll be comfortable turning the wheel a little harder. But when I'm driving to and from Tellico...I'll be smiling from ear to ear.

The variable ratio makes a HUGE difference at highway speeds. To me anyway...this is a great compromise for streetability.
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Last edited by Sitting Bull : 09-05-2007 at 07:28 AM.
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  #16  
Old 09-05-2007, 10:48 AM
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According to my 82 TSM all jeeps except CJs were using variable ratio boxes in 82.
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  #17  
Old 09-05-2007, 12:23 PM
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The Anti-Chrysler The Anti-Chrysler is offline
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I've heard that too, however I don't see how it could be much more than going from 16.9:1 to 17:1 cause I could never notice a difference. If you've swapped in the S10 box, you notice the difference right away.

Some years TSM's seem to say no variable ratio, some do. I have the original literature somewhere that introduced the new variable ratio Saginaw boxes used for the S10 trucks circa 1995-1996, I'll have to find it again.
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  #18  
Old 09-05-2007, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali
According to my 82 TSM all jeeps except CJs were using variable ratio boxes in 82.

you can actually search FSJ parts on Amazon, and I've seen plenty of variable rate boxes for FSJs there. They are about $180+
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  #19  
Old 09-05-2007, 04:08 PM
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On the ratio, its 16:1 when the wheel is centered, 13:1 at full lock.

Ive never driven an S10 so I dont know how it feels. Someone mentioned an XJ earlier in this thread. Our 2001 cherokee's steering is a little tighter than my J-10, but I don't see any major flaws in the J-10s handling all the way up to 65+. I can certainly tell there is a difference, but nothing major. The j10 is easier to control IMO.

[edit]

just looked at the s10s ratio... sounds like you guys are swapping an old warn out box for a newer less warn box. other than that... im not sure it could be considered an upgrade..
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Last edited by Kali : 09-05-2007 at 04:10 PM.
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  #20  
Old 09-05-2007, 04:18 PM
Tobynine9 Tobynine9 is offline
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I just did this swap, as well. My old box and pump were leaking like a sieve.

On the road, the S10 box (or 2003 4x4 Sonoma box, in my case) is a world different, and a world better, if you ask me. I do more on road driving than off so it's no biggie if I have to work a little harder to turn the wheel when I do go off.
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