360 GM/CustomEFI TBI setup problems

[chipotle]

I was hoping I could get any further ideas here on the CustomEFI's TBI setup problems. I know a few people here have the setup. I am about at the end of my rope with CustomEFI's non-responses and months of delays. Here's what information I have collected over the last couple months between waiting for 2 sentence responses.

Initial response after the GM TBI setup was installed on my rebuilt AMC 360 with Edlbrock 3731 4BBL intake manifold and a Competition model # 10-214-5: The Jeep is running like it is overly rich, especially while cold; the exhaust is black. It will not stay running for long at normal idle ~640rpm. Once pushed up around 1,000-1,200rpm it settles out some, and then somewhat better at 1,600-2,200rpm. It will stall, when I let off the gas after pushing the rpm up. Since it is not drivable, the shop I have been working with is working with me to check the timing. The distributor is definitely not 180 out.
The auto shop did further testing on the Jeep. They said they are getting a NOC sense #43 error code, even after the system is reset. The can tell the NOC sensor is sending an electrical signal, but it seams the computer is not trying to adjust the timing. Also, the ESC error code keeps coming up after resetting. When cold it is still running to rich (black smoke...). Shouldn't the ECU be trying to adjust it?

The shop temporarily took a 1990 GMC Jimmy 350 ECU and put it in the Jeep. The truck ran great with it, but for being a little lean. So whether it's programming, bad chip, faulty ECU board, or... something is definitely not right.

My other choice at this point: The shop thinks they can get a GMC ECU, and work thru a few cherry picked stock chips, and come up with an operational system. It will cost an additional few hundred dollars, but at least I will have my Jeep back after 8 months (so far). Then I'll just have to try and get my extra costs refunded...

[brielly]

Are you burning the chip yourself after providing him with data from an aldl cable? If you have the burner you may want to try to find some bin files on the net for 360's to get you started. I'm not too impressed with his tuning myself. On his site he claims to have made systems for 258's but my initial chip wasn't even close. After sending him the initial data he said we had a problem. I just had to send him my distributer so he could run some tests. I haven't heard back from him yet. At the time i ordered the kit if I had known a year and 4 months later that my jeep still wouldn't be running I never would have ordered from him.

[brielly]

Here's a link to a recent discussion about chips. http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/ultimatebb....2;t=036177;p=1 I belive someone posted a bin file that might be helpful. Be careful using stock chips from other engines such as chevy- they will not be calibrated close enough to make your engine run well and could actually cause damage.

[chipotle]

Originally posted by brielly:
Are you burning the chip yourself after providing him with data from an aldl cable? If you have the burner you may want to try to find some bin files on the net for 360's to get you started. I'm not too impressed with his tuning myself. On his site he claims to have made systems for 258's but my initial chip wasn't even close. After sending him the initial data he said we had a problem. I just had to send him my distributer so he could run some tests. I haven't heard back from him yet. At the time i ordered the kit if I had known a year and 4 months later that my jeep still wouldn't be running I never would have ordered from him.

Briely
Yep, I've got the chip burner and aldl cable. I don't think I have a programming issue as much as a HW issue within the ECU. I would think the ECU should be responding to the NOC sensor input, and the rich mixture. Supposedly he programmed the bin file knowing the setup I was installing. But another bin might be worth a try, if I knew of a similar setup. I have another useless phone number if you would like to leave a message on it, when it works?

The shop I am working with is very familiar with the GMC TBI setup; and yes, I realize that this has some risks as well and is not my first choice at all. I also have the knock sensor in the loop. Thanks for the other thread, I'll have to read thru it.

[Steve H]

Well I guess I'm not the only one with CustomEFI chip problems.

I ordered this system over a year ago, received it a few months ago and have been fighting with it since.

It has been running bad. Cranks awhile in the morning when cold, then runs rough until warm, and I can hear spark knock while it is sitting still. No real power when warm. Timing is set right. I have found loose wires and fixed. My dizzy was wired wrong so JW sent me a new pick-up coil that wired directly to the module. He also sent a new module because he had sent me the one he uses for mock-up. Thought all that would fix it, but no. I went from about 11 mpg with the carb down to about 6 mpg.

I miss my carb now. It would take a while to warm up but I knew why. I was so excited when I saved up the money to buy the TBI system and even more excited 10 months later when it arrived. But now, not so excited. If I didn't think you guys would make fun of me I would actually cry. [img]smile.gif[/img] Especially after paying the money I did for this set-up.

I sent JW the sensor data files and i am waiting to hear back.

The Anti-riced, would you be willing to look at my files too. I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Steve

[Rogue]

Originally posted by chipotle:

The shop temporarily took a 1990 GMC Jimmy 350 ECU and put it in the Jeep. The truck ran great with it, but for being a little lean. So whether it's programming, bad chip, faulty ECU board, or... something is definitely not right.

hmmm... i'll try to help you the best i can - I specialize in driveability problems and have been a driveabliltiy specialist for 5 years now - kinda like a heart specialist when you're talkin about doctors - however I once tried to tell the "TBI experts" here that a "350 chevy" chip will run a "360 AMC" cause i've been trained to figure out how to solve these kind of problems and I KNOW that a factory computer has enough compensation built in to accept a 0.060 over rebuild engine which puts you in the ballpark of an AMC 360 and I've also heard a bunch of BS about timing tables and other nonsense about newer more efficient engines - well... if you intaked and exhausted your engine guess what? its more efficient now and guess what else? the airflow characteristics of a NEWER chevy 350 and an OLDER amc 360 ( two 90 degree 18436572 v8 engines ) aren't that different!!!!! i have also run 383 strokers with stock chips though the block learn over time never returned from the stratusphere but then we collected the data and burned the chip after we saw what was going on with the vehicle.

so now then - does the code reappear with the chebby computer? if no then try your custom chip in the chebby computer if no then problem solved you got a bad computer.

[chipotle]

Originally posted by The Anti-riced:
When it is cold the system is in open loop mode so the computer does not try to adjust the mixture. Reversed wires at the dizzy pickup can cause idle problems as will fuel pressure. The 43 code could be from bad components or bad wiring. He's sent more than one mis-wired harness out to cutomers. Did the Jimmy ecu throw a 43 too? Did you swap chips with between the ecu's?

Idle is the easy part of tuning. Since you have the equipment, fixing it should be an inconvenience not a major problem. At worst it sounds like you might need a $20 junkyard ecu. If you want a second opinion, send me a log done with Raw, Flag, Sensor and Error checked.

The Jimmy ECU had no errors. I don't think the chips are interchangable with CustomEFI's design and new chip. The shop plugged the Jimmy ECU in thru the connector under the dash. I'll send the data later today when I can get to my data. Thanks for the offer! My ignorant guess is a ECU build issue, but I've never played with this kind of engine stuff before. Though I probably can dig into the ECU breadboard, but haven't wanted to up to this point.

That Megasquirt site from the other thread here does sound like an interesting option, but I would have to do allot of reading. At least I would have more spec's on the setup.

Thanks,
Douglas

[chr1s]

Steve H, hang in there man, these systems do run great after you get through the initial setup headaches.

chipotle: Im guessing you have the CustomEFI ECU with the flash chip? If you are handy with a soldering iron you can easily de-solder the adapter and put it in another ECU. Take a look at THIS to give you an idea of whats involved.(using this as a guidline on the 'NEW' ecu, you would simply de-solder the adapter from to CustomeEFI ecu and not cut it up)
Good luck, youre almost there

[ January 04, 2006, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: chr1s ]

[chipotle]

chr1s,
So the CustomEFI ECU is essentially a stock GM ECU with a ZIF socket switched in on the breadboard? Dang, if so. Soldering is no big deal. Yeah, I have the flash chip and burner for it. I have been assuming that since the Jimmy ECU was switched in at the addapter plug under the dash, that the CustomEFI wiring harness should be correct, and was installed correctly. Do you have any thoughts on whether to go for a junk yard ECU or new one? Though I haven't looked at prices yet.

Thanks,
Douglas

[Steve H]

What a wealth of great knowledge out there!!

Thanks guys!

I'm still hanging in there, I know it will be worth it soon.

[chr1s]

chipotle, as anti-riced said, go for the junyard unit. Seems like your wiring is indeed correct since all works well with the swapped ECU from the GMC. (and yes the CustomeEFI ECU is a stock unit with a zif socket thrown in)

soon maybe we'll have a little TBI/EFI section on these forums, seems like quite a few people are going this route.

[chipotle]

One additional thougth I had is, what if the flash chip is faulty. Or is that very unlikely compared to the whole ECU, and the fact that I could collect data. Could my symptoms be in line with the limp home chip taking control? I don't have the original Bin file for my chip, as it was sent with "best guess" parameters for my configuration, so hopefully this is not the issue.

[chr1s]

not sure which flashchip you have but the ones i got from MOUSER are only $1.41 plus shipping [img]tongue.gif[/img] (no minimum order either)

[Steve H]

chr1s,

Hope you don't mind, I sent you a PM on this topic.

Thanks,
Steve

[chipotle]

Anti-riced, I was looking at your link for the FSJ TBI Project. I'm going to tear down the ECU tonight and inspect it. But I also decided to get a new Bin file and re-flash my chip. It looks like the Bin file from chrism might at least be close. Though I don't know if he had a knock sensor in the loop. I have kept my emission equipment intact. Not sure if there would be a better Bin file out there to begin with.

chr1s, I have the same chip: SST 27SF512.