258 w/ 2100 finally running... with more questions

[benztechnc]

So Big push this weekend ! I got the old 1 piece manifolds off, installed the (new to me) 2 piece manifolds, which created a question, but I'll hold off, first I get to gloat and dance a jig of happiness!!!

So got the adapter and the 2100 bolted on, found that the accelerator linkage plate (and other crap) just doesn't bolt up from the 1 piece manifolds to the 2 piece manifolds, which means I don't have to make a bracket cause heck, It doesn't pull down anymore.

So a quick trip to az and an after market accerator cable kit. http://www.streetsideauto.com/products.asp?ptid=3367&brand=BGCX&series=Throttle% 20Cable%20Kit&partnumber=2431&Skip=True&LookupType =NON&Reset=True&utm_source=GoogleShopping&utm_medi um=GoogleShopping&utm_term=GoogleShopping&utm_cont ent=GoogleShopping&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping

and a bracket
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Q78ARCX7L._SL500_SS90_.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.amazon.com/Spectre-2431-Throttle-Braided-Stainless/dp/B0008G5FZ6&usg=__57UgoGGNmP3EuHO2wp1lzqHNcG8=&h=90 &w=90&sz=2&hl=en&start=5&um=1&tbnid=_NMlqHmbkiwzzM :&tbnh=78&tbnw=78&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dspectre%2Baccelerator%2Bbracket%26hl% 3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rlz%3D1R1GGIC_en___US356%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

and a little bit of cutting and cussin' and viola, I have a cable that pulls back and works the carb with full movement.

Took out the 3 way fuel filter, and put in a clear 2 way filter, and I can not only see the fuel, but I know she's got plenty.

(I got rid of the 3 way filter because I found it was allowing way too much fuel to go back to the tank)

So this leaves me with tons of questions, and I do mean TONS!!!!!!

1. Has anyone else changed the manifolds from the 1 piece to the 2 piece, if so, did you find that the bolt holes on the head didn't quite line up with the 2 piece? I think this is causing an exhaust leak? If you have experience with this please tell me about it.

2. Right now I have the front pcv capped off, the rear connected to the base of the carb. The truck doesn't have a charcoal canister, I can't find a vent line anywhere (but I haven't tried to trace it from the tank) Should the truck have these, and how can I modify it so it does, to properly vent the tank?

3. POWER VALVE, yep you all know and LOVE the pwer valve on the 2100, right? Well here is the question, do you just hook this straight to manifold vaccuum? The carb I have has a vacuum nipple on the power valve which I think is normal, right now I have it capped off, I assume it need to be connected buy where?

4. I have the dizzy vacuum connected to the base of the carb, which I believe is the manifold vacuum, good idea or not?

5. The Vacuum canister isn't hooked up, should I hook it up to a T in the line for the dizzy vacuum, and shouldn't there be a line going to the inside for heater controls. It is an 78 j-10, not sure if it had vacuum doors for the heater or not.

Tomarrow, will hopefully see me driving the truck, if all goes as planned!!!

[Blue & Gray]

Sounds like your doing pretty good on the swap. I have been monkeying around with same swap and have been over the same ground.


1. My bolt holes lined up perfectly, if you can take a picture of what your dealing with, if the casting is off a little just clearance it a little at a time till your not leaking. Seems I recall the intake rests on dowel pins to get lined up and the exhaust manifold had one stud in front and one in back coming out of the head to hang on.

2. I have been tinkering with this myself but my set up has been cobbled together 10 times over with 4 of 5 different carbs so I may have different issues. The PVC is in front, it goes to manifold vac. The rear is a clear elbow and it goes to filter housing with the little sponge filter inside.

3. The power valve with the nippled housing indicates a 2 stage power valve. It runs to manifold vac.

4. Lots of threads of this lowly subject. manifold vac is good to go.


5. I'd let the dizzy have it's own dedicated vac line. Get manifold vac somewhere else and run it to the canister. Yes there should be a very thin rubber line that runs in through the firewall somewhere, it supplies vac to the push button heater/defrost controls.

[benztechnc]

Thankyou, thank you. If there were studs in the head at 1 time they were long gone by the time I got the truck. I am going to pull the manifolds back off and clean the threads with a tap, I'll also get studs as that will help lining it up, I was thinking it was kinda weird to have the dowels for the intake, but not for the exhaust. I'll leave the dizzy vacuum line alone and hook up another line for the power valve and the vacuum canister as well as the heater controls if I can find them (and they don't leak). Also I'll get a PCV valve instead of the open tube and connect the other end to the top of the air horn, since o can't use the stock air cleaner I'll come up with something.

Also I'll put pictures up to help and because I really enjoy hearing everyone's opinion here bout how things look. I am really happy bout how the throttle cable came out and hope there isn't too many drawbacks to the way I did it all.

[babywag]

Sounds familiar!

Went through something similar a while ago...


#2...Vent line should be on the passenger frame rail and run back to tank
#3...Never seen a 2100 with a vacuum port on the powervalve cover
All the 2100's I've seen receive vacuum internally

[benztechnc]

I can't see the power valve in the picture you have there. But the routing of the accelerator cable looks good. I'll get the camera from the garage today and get the pictures up. I am really thinking about the exhaust tick and if I want to tackle it today too or not. I was thinking of just putting it all back together and moving it around some is the only reason why I hesitate to take the manifolds back off.

We shall see how it goes.

[benztechnc]

Here is the picture of the power valve connection.






I connected that up to the point on the manifold with the blue cap, seen here (sort of, look at the back of the manifold and just below the shiny accelerator cable.



You can also see in the above picture where I hooked the dizzy up to the port on the bottom of the carb. I sure hope that's a decent vacuum source.


The fuel filter I decided to use.

which leads me to another question, should I just cap off the return line to the tank or what? It's like 30 degrees here right now, so I'm not worried about it vapor locking, if it does, then I'll deal with that when I get to it.

Here is a picture of where the dizzy hooks up. It's better than the last I think.



and don't you love how the "PCV looks" yeah there's another 10 bucks I need to spend...

[babywag]

Some suggestions for you...

Is that a glass gas filter??
If it is lose it ASAP, those things are frickin' dangerous as hell.

Someone used a 2150 power valve cover, not a big deal probably has vacuum internally.

FYI a normal 360 v8 air cleaner will fit pretty nicely.
I would cap the fuel return line if you're not going to use it.

[[]V[]AXX]

subscribing to this one.

[RAMBLINFSJ]

I do believe your distributer vacuum needs to be from a ported vacuum source. If it's on manifold vacuum, the dizzy will be advanced at idle and would run very good. I've done this swap on my 79 Concord and it worked out great. I wish I would have seen this thread before you started. I could have saved you a few steps and some cash. Here's a link to the 2100 swap I did (it starts near the bottom of the page and on to the next page) http://www.forum.route66rambler.com/...c,1876.84.html . As long as you have manifold vacuum to the power valve housing, you're good. When the engine is under a load and manifold vacuum drops, it activates the power valve to add more fuel. I'm not to sure if a V8 Wagoneer air cleaner will clear the master cylinder. I had to get an offset air cleaner to clear the master cylider on my Concord but I do have a smaller engine compartment than a FSJ.

[babywag]

I have a stock 360 air cleaner on a '79 258 using the newer style CJ7 2 piece manifolds, clears with tons of room to spare.

The aftermarket cable I used is 150% better than the craptastic stock linkage.
(Just my opinion)

Ported vs. manifold can be debated all day long.
I find throttle response MUCH better running manifold vacuum.
More initial timing is a GOOD thing too.
Most of these things benefit from some added initial advance.
Especially if you're modifying them with a larger carb etc.

[jaber]

Originally Posted by benztechnc

I would get a different fuel filter also. Those are good for small rocks and debris, but will still let the fine particles through. I like the clear ones at checker. I believe its a paper filter. I use the one pictured between the tank and my elec pump and then a paper one in front of the carb.

[Blue & Gray]

You probably need to find out which type power valve you have installed, 1 stage or 2 stage. From what I think I know the single stage gets it vacuum internally and has a flat cover with no vac nipple. The 2 stage gets it internally and the second stage of enrichment is activated by the source hooked up to nipple. The 2 stage is a taller unit and has to have taller cover, the single uses an almost flat cover. Obviously knowing which valve you have installed will decide if you need to hook anything up to it all or just plug it and look for the right flat cover off of a another carb if you feel the need to do so.


An often debated point is if the 258 even needs a 2 stage power valve or benefits from it. I wish I could say one way or another but my swap has been waylaid by the winter working season and is on hold till spring or the next layoff I get. Power valves have ratings, or vacuum values that they engage their enrichment in the powerband. A 2 stage has 2 values.


I haven't read which venturi size you've installed, 1.08 is commonly thought to be best fit on the ol' 258 and that number is cast on the drivers side of your float bowl right under the accel pump linkage. Jets are another point of swapping and #47 jets are what most folks have found to work best when the 1.08 model is installed on the 258.


Also I have found that jets/power valves on the MC's do not interchange with the popular Holley's, save an ancient 1.02 venturi model I have that uses the smaller Holley jets.

[benztechnc]

This project is going on hold for a short while, maybe longer. I'll let ya all know where and what I get into next on this thing. But the bike is far more important to be running right now. I need the gas mileage back and I miss the wind.