Question for River Beast

[new2fsjeeps]

I have pretty much decided on a SOA for my 80 Cherokee W/T. I will need your flip kit and a little advice. A friend I worked with just opened a 4X shop and gave me a deal on the install, Flip the springs, install the kit of yours I showed him and throw on the body lift(2") for $300 +tax. Good deal to me. What else do I need. Steering wise, Drive shafts, Brake lines. Anything? The steering already sets on top of the knuckles so does it need to be enhanced in anyway? Ill send you the money for the flip kit come the week of the 16th. Do I need to PM you with any further info? Will they need to cut the knuckles and rotate them? They did not mention this so its why I am asking. If you can offer any advice on this before I take it in I will greatly appreciate it. I just want to make it as painless as possible. Thanks in advance!
Marc

[Stuka]

You will need longer drives shafts, front will need to have some higher angle CV's put on, or put a double-carden joint on both sides of it. Brakes lines will need to be longer front and rear.

For steering you can either go with a high steering or cross over steering. Either way your going to need flat top knuckles from a 76 or older D44 front axle. To get the camper angle right cutting and turning the knuckles would work, although doesnt have to be done. You can leave the knuckles as is and just use a high angle front driveshaft. If you ever plan on upgrading axles, you may not want to do that much work to the current D44. Although for 300 bucks who's to complain [img]smile.gif[/img]

I am not Todd, but this should help [img]smile.gif[/img]

[River Beast]

thanks Brandon..... we had a power outage today.... talk about withdrawl!!!

You front shaft will most likley need mods.. like a high angle CV... I ran my stock rear shaft with minor vibes for about a year... just keep and eye on the ujoints.

I highly recommend X-over steering... www.partsmike.net has the draglink extension and high steer arm parts you need.... may even have a pre-drilled/tapped GM pass side knuckle for you.... check with him.

$300 is not a bad price for the work....

Looking forward to hearing from you around the 15th or so....

Brakelines is up to you... i fabbed soem drop-down brackets and still use OEM lines.

if you weld the perches parallel to the OEM perches, you will not alter the geometry of the steering.. so you will not have to roatate the knuckles.

[Navajo]

Don't forget shocks.

[River Beast]

that's a given... but yeah.... should have mentioned that...

[new2fsjeeps]

Ive contacted parts mike, waiting to here back. yea shocks are addressed. Where can I get the brake lines. Had those pop on my yj. Not fun! Can i modify the existing shaft(front) or buy a new one. Who would be good to go through for the shaft? My yj i bought the sye and shaft together and that was done, never had a custom deal. Im still worrid about the rear axle, I want to go junk yard hunting for a stronger 14 bolt or D60. whats a good donor truck? remember I have a w/t. Thanks for all the help, Ill contact you Tod around the 15-16th. Thanks again!

[River Beast]

Rear 14FF can be found in:

1977-87 K30 1 ton 4wd

1984-88 CUCV

1988-91.5 V30

there could be more apps

there are more archive out there to get the info you need.... con't have htem all linked... sorry.... I got mine from 84 K30 miliatry truck.

Front shaft will need a bit of work.. but wait until you are SOA'd THEN worry about it....

www.arizonadriveline.com (TALK TO STEVE ONLY) will get you set up with a high angle fron CV shaft for under $300 (I hope)

The 76-77 GM front brakelines are much longer than the OEM FSH lines and are a direct bolt it on the D44 up front for about $20 each side...

Here is a small 'taste' of the info from Billavista's pages... D60 info

"The most desirable axles for heavy duty 4x4 use in stock form have open kingpin knuckles, 35 spline inner axles, 30 spline outer axles (stub shafts), and disc brakes. Later model Ford high pinion (HP) Dana 60s with balljoints instead of kingpins are also desirable axles, though many prefer the kingpin knuckles over the balljoints.

The undesirable front Dana 60 axles will not be covered by this article, and include:

74-75.5 Ford low pinion drivers side closed knuckle drum brake with 30 spline inners, 19 spline outers, small ujoints and weak knuckles.

75.5-77 Ford low pinion drivers side open knuckle disc brake 30 spline inners, 19 spline outers, outer knuckle spindle pilot hole is smaller than 78+ axle and is therefore notched to allow 1480 series U-joint tp pass through.

94+ Dodge drivers side low pinion CAD unit bearing hub 32 spline 1.31” coil sprung Dana 60s

Any other closed knuckle Dana 60, like those from a Jeep M715 that had coarse spline axles.

Common applications for the desirable axles include:

GM

1977-87 K30 1 ton 4wd

1984-88 CUCV

1988-91.5 V30

All GM / Chevy versions were passenger side differential, regular rotation (low pinion) gears, disc brakes, 35 spline inners, 30 spline outers, internal style hubs, and kingpin knuckles.

Dodge

1975-89 D-600

1992-93 D-600

1981-89 D-700

1992-93 D-700

All these Dodge versions were passenger side differential, regular rotation (low pinion) gears, disc brakes, 35 spline inners, 30 spline outers, and kingpin knuckles. 1979-89 versions had external style hubs, with the earlier versions with full-time NP203 Transfer cases having external drive flanges, and later models having external lockout hubs. The external lockout hub bolt pattern is 8 x 3.960". The 90-93 versions had internal style hubs just like the Chevy and lockout hubs. One caution with dodge applications, is you have to be careful to avoid the Dana 61 front axle. 1987-88 and 1991-93.5 Dodge D600 and D700 also came with Dana 61. More info on the Dana 61 later in the article.

Ford

1978-79 F-350 and some F-250 (Snofighter and High GVW packages)
1986-88 F-350 with dual rear wheels (DRW)

1988-91.5 F-350 with single rear wheels (SRW)

1992-95 F-350 (all) (balljoint)

1996.5-98 F-350 (all) (balljoint)

2000 F350/F450/F550 DRW (balljoint, metric 8x170mm wheel bolt pattern F350 / 8x220mm F450/F550, unit bearing hub)

2000.5 F350/F450/F550 DRW (balljoint, metric 8x170mm wheel bolt pattern F350 / 8x220mm F450/F550, unit bearing hub)

2001 F350 DRW (balljoint, metric 8x170mm wheel bolt pattern, unit bearing hub)

2001-02 F450/F550 DRW (balljoint, metric 8x220mm wheel bolt pattern, unit bearing hub)

2002 F250/F350 SRW (balljoint, metric 8x170mm wheel bolt pattern, unit bearing hub)

2002 F450/F550 DRW (balljoint, metric 8x220mm wheel bolt pattern, unit bearing hub)

All these Ford versions were drivers side differential, reverse-cut (high pinion) gears, and kingpin knuckles to 1991.5 and balljoints thereafter. Most Ford D60s are internal style hubs, but external type lockout versions do exist. 2000 and later Ford D60s have balljoints, a metric wheel lug pattern of 8x170mm up to F350 and 8x220mm for F450/F550, different brakes and spindles, sealed "unit-bearing hubs", hub-centric wheels, different length axleshafts from the earlier D60s, and larger Superduty specific tie rod ends. From 2000 on, the Ford D60 front axle is also known as the Model 60F2000+ or the 248M. 248 just happens to be the equivalent in millimeters of 9.75" - the diameter of the D60s ring gear.

IHC

1975 1300 camper Special

35 spline inner, 30 spline outer, external lockouts"

you can find just about everything you need on these 66+ pages of Dana 60 tech info

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/60_front/

[fulsizjeep]

Seems to me there is a drive line shop or two in Jax by the name of Florida Driveline Specialists or something like that. It has been a few years. They may be a franchise because there is also one in Tampa and Sarasota. Anyways, I always had good dealings with them when I lived there. They can do what ever you need done for the drivelines.

[River Beast]

The limitations of the OEM CV will require a high angle CV.... not too many companies offer them... they are out there... but few .

Normal operating angle of a stock 1310 series CV is 16 degrees and max (meaning VERY short duration at this angle) is 22 degrees...

When you run the SOA... most likely you will be over the 16 degrees garanteed.... I was at 32 after SOA and 4" springs.

The high angle CV that Arizona Driveline puts out is being run by BLT2KRL and he has never had a problem with it.... 41 degrees max operation angle which is more than enuf.

I have a custom front CV that I relieved myself and wont EVER to it again... almost 80 hours in a machine shop with precision tooling.

PC and myself both do business with Steve at Arizona... we both have custom rear CV's from them...

I am sending back my shaft soon to have modified to fit my 14FF....

[textbookonewk]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/60_front/[/QB]

Thats a great page, thanks for the link. Now I just need to find a front D60.