bad decision time......maybe

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  • AKjeeper
    232 I6
    • Feb 03, 2012
    • 145

    bad decision time......maybe

    So I welded up the rear end on my 86 waggy. This is my trail toy and occasional cruiser around town. I REALLY want a front locker but this is a budget build so Im really thinking about putting in some manual hubs and welding up the front axle. I KNOW the drawbacks of steering on the trail, I figure if the steering is to hard I can always unlock a hub on the trail. I see so many people running lock rights and detroits up front, so why couldnt I weld it and get much better off-road capability?. I do carry extra shafts, I do have a ford dana 44 to get swapped in SOA next year IF I hate the welded front. Whos done it?
    86 Waggy, Rear home brew shackle flip, front add-a-leaf and Chevy shackles, fender trim, WARN M8000, Lincoln locked rear, 15x10 rims and 33x12.50 Muds, 3.54 cogs
  • AKjeeper
    232 I6
    • Feb 03, 2012
    • 145

    #2
    Ive talked to alot of guys who run welded front and they say in the dirt it aint that bad to steer, especially in the mud. I don't run rocks, its Alaska and we have alot of mud, ruts, roots, slimy hill climbs. The guys with lockers or welded up front do so much better with the front locked and say it isnt that bad, only occasionally they gotta make a 3 point turn or unlock a hub on a tight trail, so im really considering this. I only run 33's so If Im not an idiot I see the front axle holding up just fine.

    So Question, IF I convert to manual hubs, what application do I need? Will GM dana 44 hubs work or should I just ask for another year Jeep dana 44 hub, if so which year should I ask for so I make sure I get the right hubs.?
    86 Waggy, Rear home brew shackle flip, front add-a-leaf and Chevy shackles, fender trim, WARN M8000, Lincoln locked rear, 15x10 rims and 33x12.50 Muds, 3.54 cogs

    Comment

    • blazer3664
      350 Buick
      • Mar 08, 2009
      • 974

      #3
      I'd say go for it.
      I think Chevy hubs will work, but not 100% sure. A little checkin should turn up what years ours had manual hubs though.

      Worst case, you really hate it and know to do something different when you swap axles to go SOA.

      Probably gona weld my D60 for a while until I can afford an OX locker for it.

      Jim
      modified flares, removable top, OBA w/200psi tank,
      LQ4, 4L80e,NWF doubler w/upside down 203
      SOA w/ D44s F+R for now
      H1 wheels+tires (cut), hydroboost brakes
      custom shackle flip
      W/F150 springs
      -----Coming Soon-----
      snorkels,
      OX'd D60/14B-FF

      Comment

      • MonsterZ
        258 I6
        • Nov 11, 2010
        • 469

        #4
        I am just about positive that chevy hubs will work, but if you can find yourself hubs for a J20 that would also work. I think you are going to find that you are gonna love having no BS 4 wheel drive. Whether or not you decide to eventually go to a full time locker up front is a different story, but I do recommend that if you decide to stay welded up front that you eventually pony up for an actual spool. They tend to hold up better than welded gears. Enjoy, and the next time I can get down to Anchorage I will be sure to shoot you a message. Looking forward to seeing it man, good luck!!
        '75 Wagoneer, bone stock, about to be a whole garage of parts. Tear down starts 3 March, 2012,
        see how long it takes to put it back together....

        '91 XJ, 3 in Rough Country lift, 33's, Rattle can paint job, roof rack and cheapo off road lights. Diffs and winch next

        Comment

        • AKjeeper
          232 I6
          • Feb 03, 2012
          • 145

          #5
          I think the worst case scenario is that I don't like the steering, but Im pretty sure on a nasty trail in the middle of no where I'll rather have TRUE 4wd than easy finger tip steering for "convenience". And yes, If I weld it and hate it then atleast I can say from experience that I didnt like it. I only need this axle to survive one summer anyway.
          86 Waggy, Rear home brew shackle flip, front add-a-leaf and Chevy shackles, fender trim, WARN M8000, Lincoln locked rear, 15x10 rims and 33x12.50 Muds, 3.54 cogs

          Comment

          • Stuka
            • Jan 21, 2001
            • 13743

            #6
            So long as you never need to drive in the snow, go for it.

            Although I don't see how a welded front would do better on a hill climb than a locker. As they are both acomplishing the same task. Just one unlocks when you let off the gas. A spool is not going to give you more traction than a detroit. A detroit locks the axle shafts together whenever you apply throttle.

            Comment

            • AKjeeper
              232 I6
              • Feb 03, 2012
              • 145

              #7
              Originally posted by Stuka
              So long as you never need to drive in the snow, go for it.

              Although I don't see how a welded front would do better on a hill climb than a locker. As they are both acomplishing the same task. Just one unlocks when you let off the gas. A spool is not going to give you more traction than a detroit. A detroit locks the axle shafts together whenever you apply throttle.

              The whole point is that I can't afford a locker.
              86 Waggy, Rear home brew shackle flip, front add-a-leaf and Chevy shackles, fender trim, WARN M8000, Lincoln locked rear, 15x10 rims and 33x12.50 Muds, 3.54 cogs

              Comment

              • AKjeeper
                232 I6
                • Feb 03, 2012
                • 145

                #8
                Then again something tells me that If I can't get there with nice 33's, good articulation and a locked rear then I shouldn't be going there!
                86 Waggy, Rear home brew shackle flip, front add-a-leaf and Chevy shackles, fender trim, WARN M8000, Lincoln locked rear, 15x10 rims and 33x12.50 Muds, 3.54 cogs

                Comment

                • Stuka
                  • Jan 21, 2001
                  • 13743

                  #9
                  Originally posted by AKjeeper
                  The whole point is that I can't afford a locker.
                  Oh I know. And I just realized I misread your second post. I thought it said a welded front did better than a locked front. But you said a welded/locked did better than an open. So, disregard my previous comment
                  Last edited by Stuka; 04-27-2012, 04:45 PM.

                  Comment

                  • REDONE
                    304 AMC
                    • Aug 19, 2002
                    • 1752

                    #10
                    Originally posted by AKjeeper
                    Then again something tells me that If I can't get there with nice 33's, good articulation and a locked rear then I shouldn't be going there!
                    I follow your logic, as I'm the kind of guy that get's stuck in 2x before going 4x, and if I'm in 4lo, I'm either pulling a stump, bucking hay, or muttering profanities at the thought paying for recovery!

                    Even so, I say weld it up! If you don't like it, every single other traction option you'd replace it with will replace the carrier and welded spiders anyways. If you decide to try a lunchbox (which, in the front I don't think you'd find a difference between a locker and a lincoln locker) a bare D44 carrier can be had out of hundreds of cars at the pull-a-part for less than I spend on beer in a week.
                    2012 Winner of the Prestigious Ouray Cast Iron Butt Award
                    79 J-10 - The Money Badger!
                    304/T18/D20/D44s
                    What's been did:
                    Holley 4160/Ede' S.P.2.P.
                    MSD Streetfire based TFI
                    Custom-hack gauge cluster
                    Razor swap
                    Fancy exhaust (Thrush Muffler)
                    2 knob tape deck!
                    3" homebuilt lift
                    Half a hillbilly paint job

                    Comment

                    • AKjeeper
                      232 I6
                      • Feb 03, 2012
                      • 145

                      #11
                      Originally posted by REDONE
                      I follow your logic, as I'm the kind of guy that get's stuck in 2x before going 4x, and if I'm in 4lo, I'm either pulling a stump, bucking hay, or muttering profanities at the thought paying for recovery!

                      Even so, I say weld it up! If you don't like it, every single other traction option you'd replace it with will replace the carrier and welded spiders anyways. If you decide to try a lunchbox (which, in the front I don't think you'd find a difference between a locker and a lincoln locker) a bare D44 carrier can be had out of hundreds of cars at the pull-a-part for less than I spend on beer in a week.
                      Yeah, well Ive got a dana 44 out of a 79 F250 just ready to be thrown in for my SOA BUT im afraid to start that project now as spring/summer is upon us and I dont want to miss a weekend to get out in the jeep. Im gonna save the SOA/Full width swap for next winter. Right now I just wanna get the heck out and enjoy the Jeep and the wilderness with my Sons. Ill just weld the S.O.B up and see how it goes, if the drawbacks outweigh the benefits then I will know for the future and Ill save up for a selectable front locker. I just cant see a welded front being BAD in a nasty deep mudhole.................
                      86 Waggy, Rear home brew shackle flip, front add-a-leaf and Chevy shackles, fender trim, WARN M8000, Lincoln locked rear, 15x10 rims and 33x12.50 Muds, 3.54 cogs

                      Comment

                      • CutterN55
                        350 Buick
                        • Mar 09, 2009
                        • 1141

                        #12
                        Go with good hubs if you lock the front. My buddy welded the open 44's I gave him and first trip out on 33's he grenaded the D/S lock-out not two minutes off the trailer. Then the other the next week.

                        I'd go with a mini-spool front to try it out. It can always be removed and you can add a luchbox or something else later. You'd also be able to sell what parts you have if you don't like it.

                        You will probably find that you will want hyrdo-assist once you are fully locked or you are going to get very strong.

                        I think if you run the locked rear for a while and save your pennies, you'll be happier with a lunchbox up front, that way you can still turn the tires when you let off the throttle.

                        I have not locked my front yet, though I want to. The reason I haven't welded mine is that I wheeled an XJ with mini-spools in both ends and decided that's not the direction I wanted to go. I want a selectable front.
                        ROMANS 12:1-2

                        Military guys- Check out www.MilitaryJeepers.com

                        '89 GW deceased
                        Ford 4spd swap Np435/205
                        Lifted/stretched on 36's/4.10 thick gears/spooled rear

                        '86 CJ-7 Renegade, Restored, original steel.
                        new Built TBI 258/Np435/D300 twin-sticks/Waggy D44's
                        37" Super Swampers and lots of goodies!

                        Comment

                        • fsjparts
                          232 I6
                          • May 31, 2010
                          • 162

                          #13
                          Its hell on your steering box and pumps....went through 3 on a blazer I had welded up front

                          Comment

                          • CutterN55
                            350 Buick
                            • Mar 09, 2009
                            • 1141

                            #14
                            ^^^^
                            very good point.
                            ROMANS 12:1-2

                            Military guys- Check out www.MilitaryJeepers.com

                            '89 GW deceased
                            Ford 4spd swap Np435/205
                            Lifted/stretched on 36's/4.10 thick gears/spooled rear

                            '86 CJ-7 Renegade, Restored, original steel.
                            new Built TBI 258/Np435/D300 twin-sticks/Waggy D44's
                            37" Super Swampers and lots of goodies!

                            Comment

                            • AKjeeper
                              232 I6
                              • Feb 03, 2012
                              • 145

                              #15
                              well Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley it..............I think now Ill just go with my welded rear and leave the front alone untill I save for a selectable. I dont want to be out in the middle of nowhere and have something break on me like a rag joint, a tie rod, steering box etc etc, I guess I should consider that more than my U-joints will be under way more stress.
                              86 Waggy, Rear home brew shackle flip, front add-a-leaf and Chevy shackles, fender trim, WARN M8000, Lincoln locked rear, 15x10 rims and 33x12.50 Muds, 3.54 cogs

                              Comment

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