1973 rear shoulder belts

[DustyW]

So just got this 73 wagoneer and the wife wants shoulder belts installed. My service manual states that the threaded insert is installed at the time of manufacture. Doesn't say if it’s front, back, or both. Tried feeling around and couldn’t feel anything. Really don’t want to remove the headliner for fear of it not going back in.

[acct21]

I don't think they started putting in the rear shoulder belt threaded inserts until the late '70s (one author said '79, another said '78). The front inserts should be there in '73. This image may help with the location of the anchor.

[babywag]

My '73 wag had neither front or rear threaded holes/inserts for shoulder belts.
YMMV

Easily added, but dealing with a fragile 46yr old headliner won't be easy on rears.

[acct21]

Have seen a couple folks put in 4 point belts instead (not specifically in an FSJ, but some similar sized vehicles). Probably easier to plate the bottom of the body tub (like the OEM anchors) and put in a 4 point than to fabricate something up in the roof rail. I'm not an engineer, but if I ever get around to putting rear shoulder belts in my '90 that's absolutely what I'm going to do. The location of the rear anchor points looks essentially unusable for kids/smaller adults -- the shoulder belt goes right across their neck (or face, depending on how short we're talking about).

[FMJBT]

I ran mine off of the roof crossmember behind the rear seats. Mounted with 1/2" fine thread bolts and nylock nuts using large 1-1/2" fender washers on the backside. The retractor is mounted to an "L" shaped bracket that is bolted on top of the fender well (also with large fender washers).

[DustyW]

Was thinking about going with the 4 point belts in the back, but how would I ever fold the seat forward?

[babywag]

What I was going to do in my 73 was cut slots in the pillars and weld plates in.
That way no need to mess with headliner.
Better mount position as well.

[DustyW]

Anybody have any experience with the 4 point seat belts? Just wondering if the kids will be ing the entire time.

[acct21]

Tell the kids it's a racing harness, and they'll think it's so cool they will fight to ride in the back.

Have a good friend who ran them in the back of his CJ -- anchored his daughter's car seat with them, and when she outgrew it she used the 4 point harness herself. For a while it was the only kind of seat belt she ever knew...

If you want to fold the seat forward, you're going to need to go with the style that has the central buckle for all four points -- like the actual racing harnesses. Then you can flip the shoulder belts back up and over, and the seat will fold forward as usual.

[acct21]

Like this one:

[DustyW]

I wonder if that could be used as a lap belt also? I do like that idea though it would solve the problem

[tgreese]

If you use the competition harnesses, they should have a 5th belt that goes to the floor between the legs. This prevents you from sliding down under the belt and keeps the buckle low on your abdomen and across your hips. Sometimes called a "submarine" belt. To do it right, you should slot the seat so the belt goes down from the buckle.

Really, I think the racing harnesses (4, 5 or 6 point) aren't practical for a street-driven car. The lap belts will keep you in place, and the shoulder harness' (3-point) main purpose is to prevent a secondary collision of your face and head with the interior of the car. Beyond that, more modern cars rely on air bags to further improve safety. The race harnesses are such a pain to do-up and release, and so confining, IMO there is high likelyhood that no one will wear them.

[rang-a-stang]

Tell the kids it's a racing harness, and they'll think it's so cool they will fight to ride in the back....

HAHAHAHAHA!!! SOOOOOoooo TRUE!!!! LOL!!!

[babywag]

How old are these kiddos?

[DustyW]

11 and 17. I really appreciate all the comments and advice. I think I’m gonna go with all new lap belts and be done with it.