Lifting early FSJs

[Stuka]

75 and older wags/cheros still have a shackle in back. Only the shackle is mounted to a post. Where as 76 and newer have a box mount.

And as tad said, wagoneers and cherokees have always been the spring under frame, front shackle mounting setup. J-trucks are the only ones with post mounts in front, and they had the shackle at the rear eye of the front spring. Until 74, when they switched to spring under frame.

[jode]

Originally posted by billyrb:
Blocks: bad idea....they aren't the best option.

Originally posted by jode:
PS - The whole thing about blocks is blown WAY out of proportion. Yes, they are not the "optimum" way to get lift, but thousands of people (including myself) have run them for years with NO ill effects. Is there a better way to lift? Yes, but blocks are cheap, allow you to retain stock ride quality, and are easy to install.

I'll say it again - just one more time - thousands of people - (personally I have done serious 4 wheeling with them without any ill effects for years) have run them for years...even wheeled them pretty hard...without having any problems. They aren't the best way, for sure, but incidents with them are rare, and compared to the number of people who run them without ill-effects, are insignificant.

Stuka and Tadsal - thanks for all the great info...I think we are finally getting to the bottom of all this (tadsal - that is the chart I was looking at).

Kaiserjeeps - interesting review I wonder if those who have installed the 44044s on their rigs have experienced the same? All I hear about the 44044s is roses, and I would assume the ride would be somewhat the same as the 24043s

[Stuka]

jode: blocks arent dangerous so long as they arent stacked on top of each other, and arent over 4" tall. But... what does happen is axle wrap, this can lead to broken axle shafts, bent springs, loss of traction.

If you want to go with blocks, I would just find a way to add an anti-wrap bar for the rear axle, this will get rid of the bad side effects of the blocks.

Personally I run 2" blocks, and with the shackle flip,I do get some axle wrap (shackle facing up minimizes axle wrap a lot, shackel facing down makes it twice as easy to get). But I dont consider them dangerous at all. I have run them for 3.5 years, no problems at all.

[jode]

Stuka - fo sho!

i have run 4" blocks in the rear of mine for 4 years (and the PO ran them for years prior to that.) I have done several trails that I had no business being on in Moab, I have done some moderately nasty wheeling here in Idaho, I drove to Ouray and my wife drove the rig ALL over the mountains from there to Durango as she supported me and some friends (who were riding (mt bikes) over part of the Colorado trail.

I know what the side effects are of the blocks and I can honestly say that they have NEVER caused me a problem. I have never even known they were there. In fact, IMHO, they are at the EXACT same level (or only just SLIGHTLY lower) as lift springs on the list of ways to lift a Jeep - I personally don't think that lift springs are that great of an option either and I think they have their downsides as well.
Anyway, that is just my $.02 and it will never fly on this forum (where lift blocks are somewhat akin to cursing the heavens in Sunday mass) so I won't bother to go into it.

[full_hydro]

i love how many experts there are on everything..

evidence of truth: my 1972 waggy has a shackle setup in the front, and (had) upside down shackle on post in the rear.

anyone know what the different offsets are on the front springs. someone mentioned 44" and 47" front springs..

i thought my 1972 springs were centered, but I'm not sure. Are the later models centered?

I could pick up a little wheelbase, and some lift with 44044's..

[Elliott]

Originally posted by full_hydro:
anyone know what the different offsets are on the front springs. someone mentioned 44" and 47" front springs..

i thought my 1972 springs were centered, but I'm not sure. Are the later models centered?

I could pick up a little wheelbase, and some lift with 44044's..

According to Rancho the 44.64" RS24043 does not have an offset. The 47" RS44044 is offset 2", 22.50 front/24.50 rear.
There are a couple of other differences between the two springs tho...
RS240043
Spring rate 604lbs/inch
Free arch 5.75"
Front eye size 1.25"
Rear eye size 1.50"
4 leaves

RS44044
Spring rate 300lbs/inch
Free arch 6.58"
Front eye size 1.50"
6 leaves
Rear eye size 1.50"

[ February 16, 2004, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Elliott ]

[Tad]

Originally posted by full_hydro:
...i thought my 1972 springs were centered, but I'm not sure. Are the later models centered?

I could pick up a little wheelbase, and some lift with 44044's..

Your 72 springs should be centered, get a tape out and check, it's not real hard to do. 75 and on should be offset.

If you can get the newer springs on your rig, I'm not sure what this will do to the location of the drag link and pitman arm.
This is something that Kenall was attempting to explain to me about a year ago. I should have asked more questions at that time. Instead, I was slightly cocky and ignored and forgot most of what he was saying. (Sorry Ken, my loss)

[ February 16, 2004, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: tadsal ]

[full_hydro]

Thanks Elliott, great info

[full_hydro]

Originally posted by tadsal:
Your 72 springs should be centered, get a tape out and check, it's not real hard to do

Actually, since my rig is 120 miles away, it's a bit tough.

If you can get the newer springs on your rig, I'm not sure what this will do to the location of the drag link and pitman arm.

drag link, pitman arm? what are those? .. I have full-hydraulic steering.. just a ram, some hoses and a tie-rod..

[full_hydro]

I assume stock springs have pretty similar measurements eye to eye, and eye to center? arch probably changes them a little bit..

but anyway, on paper it looks like new springs on old mounts would move the front shackle forward about 2.5" and move the front tire a little more than 2" forward toward the bumper..... interesting..

[jode]

I guess those spring rates have a lot to do with what Kaiser Jeeps was saying about how the 24043s ride like a brick. They are more than twice as stiff as the 44044s!
Wow!

[ironroad29]

so will these work on the 66 got .hell i'm more confused now than before i read this

[testuser]

not on jtrucks. they are SOA in the front. your best bet is to add a leaf in front and flip the shackle in the rear. there was a post in off-road about it

http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=001296#000015

[ironroad29]

thanks ,thats a good tip ...but the springs on my front are toast due to the humongus length of the "custom" shackle ext. .so there all bent ,i'm gonna go with the under frame mounts and the shakle flip in the rear.