Smittles' 1964 panel Wagoneer

[smittles]

Well, folks, I am long past due for updating. Sadly my father passed away at the end of March. I was in GA for most of April. I ended up deciding to move home due to all circumstances involved. I got home to find my 86 GW had been sold to a scrapper along with my 89 GW donor. I am down to 1-the 64 panel. Suzq and I moved throughout May. My granfather's CJ-7 and 64 Willys CJ are still here. Some backwoods country lowlife a-hole stole the radiators out of them a few months ago along with chevy late 70s pick up, 68 chevy fc van, and an rv in my grandmother's field. He also took any batteries available. Unfortunaley, I didn't find this out until weeks later. Still out of work. Now I need a transmission jack to work on the panel. Stalled until i find one in my father's estate or Santa brings me one for Christmas. I dont suppose we have many members near Macon, GA? Anyone in the area have a floor/low transmission jack I may borrow? Thanks again guys. Y'all take care.

[babywag]

Sorry to hear about your dad, that's a tough one. Mine passed away last year.
Hang in there!

[smittles]

Finally

Good afternoon y'all. Still in GA. Still havent fixed it yet. Have decided what to do with it. I'll save all the original parts and eventual do a resto. Been a rough cpl yrs regarding finances and transportation. For now, I'm in need of a driver. I'm starting to look for a newer drivetrain. Ideally, 4.0 and another manual. What is the most affordable vs performance engine and newest trans(rwd), and tcase(4wd) I can swap into this old 64? Thanks everyone!

[joe]

I'll save all the original parts and eventual do a resto.

If an eventual resto is your end goal, why double the grief, work, costs with a drive train swap just to redo it over again later? What's wrong with your orig 230/T90/D20 that warrants replacing? The 230 isn't a hot rod or heavy hauler tow motor but if up to spec plenty quick for DD use. Granted the later 4.0 is a great I-6 but not a drop in motor. I don't know of any motor swap that'll be a drop-in. Yeah the 230 OHC has it's inherent maint issues but all cheap-n-easy stuff if you just keep up on the simple regular maint.

[tgreese]

If an eventual resto is your end goal, why double the grief, work, costs with a drive train swap just to redo it over again later? What's wrong with your orig 230/T90/D20 that warrants replacing? The 230 isn't a hot rod or heavy hauler tow motor but if up to spec plenty quick for DD use. Granted the later 4.0 is a great I-6 but not a drop in motor. I don't know of any motor swap that'll be a drop-in. Yeah the 230 OHC has it's inherent maint issues but all cheap-n-easy stuff if you just keep up on the simple regular maint.

Pretty sure the 226 flathead Continental engine used in Utility Wagons is a drop-in for the 230 OHC. A good engine, but a big step down in power. And this would be a '50s era engine you'd need to find in good condition to replace your '60s era engine.

[smittles]

Thank you both for the input. Going back later isn't about the headache. Its about having a running vehicle that will still do a little towing and can be used for parts runs while I have the originals on work stands/bench. I might pick something different along the way, such as the 258 with 4.0 heads. That said, I'm not sure what the transition(s) were from the 230 to the 258. I know the frame was lengthened, but didn't it stay the same width? Should I be able to just replace the necessary crossmember(s) (if necessary) for the appropriate mounts? Right now I'm in a research and planning phase. I know it can be a hassle, but I really have had a bad year with cars. I was ready to put for sale signs on both the panels. Time prevailed, and I realize I could have a running project cheaper than buying an unbeknownst project. Thanks again. Y'all have a good weekend

[tgreese]

Thank you both for the input. Going back later isn't about the headache. Its about having a running vehicle that will still do a little towing and can be used for parts runs while I have the originals on work stands/bench. I might pick something different along the way, such as the 258 with 4.0 heads. That said, I'm not sure what the transition(s) were from the 230 to the 258. I know the frame was lengthened, but didn't it stay the same width? Should I be able to just replace the necessary crossmember(s) (if necessary) for the appropriate mounts? Right now I'm in a research and planning phase. I know it can be a hassle, but I really have had a bad year with cars. I was ready to put for sale signs on both the panels. Time prevailed, and I realize I could have a running project cheaper than buying an unbeknownst project. Thanks again. Y'all have a good weekend

If you want to swap, the AMC 232 or 258 or 4.0L will be as completely foreign to the Jeep as a Ford or a Chevy. There will be no advantage, in terms of swapability, to the AMC compared to say, a Chevy 250 cid inline 6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevro...t-6_engine#250

Jeep went from the 230 to the early AMC 232 inline 6. This engine has a unique bell pattern and there is no family similarity with the 230. It's also different from the 258 which was introduced in 1970-71, which shares a bell pattern with the AMC V8s like the 304 and 360 and 401. The post-71 232 and 258 and 4.0L are drop in compatible with each other, but with neither the early 199/232 or 230.

In reality, the Chevy 250 will likely be the easiest swap, other than the flathead 226 I mentioned before. Adapters to the GM bell used by the 250 and lots of other GM engines are readily available new and on the used market if you look around. Nothing like the GM adapter exists for the AMC engines. The 250 is a good engine, comparable to the 258. You could also go Ford if you wanted - adapters also exist for most 20th century Fords to the T-90.

The frame length only changed for the CJ and Commando. Don't mix up those applications with the J-trucks and Wagoneers. Your engine compartment was designed for an inline 6, and most inline 6s fit without moving stuff around. V8s will interfere with the firewall unless you move the transmission forward. Not all sixes are the same length. The Ford 300 is longer, for example, and could be more hassle. You also should chose an engine with an oil pan sump to the rear, to avoid interference with the front axle.

Look at the used book sellers and get a copy of Petersen's "Engine Swapping Handbook." This was a large-format paperback that goes over the basic issues with swapping that you need to consider. And realize that swapping into a 4WD vehicle is more complicated than a passenger car, due to the transfer case, front driveshaft and front axle.

[tgreese]

Also, does your Jeep run and drive now? If so, I suggest you find another 230 core and rebuild that. Then swap in the renewed engine when you're ready.

Generally there is minimal enthusiasm for the 230 except in resto cases like yours. Try the WTB forums here and at FSJ Network. The M715s also ran the 230, so you could look there for a suitable core too http://m715.com/vb/index.php

I'd also mention that many many of these Jeeps got the small block Chevy/Ford V8 in the '70s. These Jeeps were something of a cigar butt in that era. Even then, the 230 was regarded as a bad engine (likely not as bad as its rep though), and this depressed resale value a lot.

[joe]

Also, does your Jeep run and drive now? If so, I suggest you find another 230 core and rebuild that. Then swap in the renewed engine when you're ready.

Generally there is minimal enthusiasm for the 230 except in resto cases like yours. Try the WTB forums here and at FSJ Network. The M715s also ran the 230, so you could look there for a suitable core too http://m715.com/vb/index.php

+1
If it runs now I agree with Tim to look for a donor 230 core and go through it as time/money allows. Also as Tim mentioned the M-715 forum is a good place to look. Lotsa M-715 owners swap in a big gaso V8 or I-6 dsl motor and have the 230 just taking up shop floor space.
On your current running(?)230 do a complete/full tune up including but not limited to a valve adjustment. Often ignored by owners. Should be at least checked every 1,500 miles or so. Also fix any and all oil leaks to save your cam and cam bed. Most common culprit will be the front timing cover gasket. It don't like the engine vibrations from the poorly designed rigid motor mounts so buy 2 gaskets while still avail. The 230 OHC if maintained is a good free reving reliable motor. Vroom vroom.