1977 Jeep 401 Wagoneer (Wedding Wagon)

[Ristow]

my 2 cents.....no way in hell would i spend another dime on that 401 block. these things are notorious heaters at .030 over. i believe amc would not go beyond .020.



take the crank and rods,get a set of custom forged pistons to stick it all in a 360 block. likely spend less money, with all the power of a 401,none of the heating issues. and you have a cooler engine to talk about to boot.




finally,i would nitride the crank.

[Wagoneer Taylor]

my 2 cents.....no way in hell would i spend another dime on that 401 block. these things are notorious heaters at .030 over. i believe amc would not go beyond .020.



take the crank and rods,get a set of custom forged pistons to stick it all in a 360 block. likely spend less money, with all the power of a 401,none of the heating issues. and you have a cooler engine to talk about to boot.




finally,i would nitride the crank.

Well I'd rather not ditch the 401, would you recommend sleeving it back to standard?
Keep in mind that this a pure street engine going in a Wagoneer.

[Ristow]

i wouldn't. people get romantically attached to the 401. i have even. it's a motor that has been pushed to the very limit,as far as mass producing it,in that cubic inch. it is heat prone. the cylinders are thin. its really not that great of a motor. kinda like the 400 sbc.

no. i would not resleeve the whole block. thats 8 potential problem areas,that you are paying to install. and you would still need to go forged to get good pistons.



i did a 360/401 combo. and even tho the machine shop,and the clown that spec'd the pistons (Flatlander Racing, the owner who said tough beans after he saw the mistake) screwed it up. it was a great combo.


the only real expense is the pistons. i shoulda called wiseco myself. next time i will,and i would recommend you do the same. they know what to byuild for this. i do too now...learned the hard way.


the rebalancing you would do should be done with the 401 too,so thats not additional cost.




i would take crank and rods,put them in a 360 block,at about 9.5 CR at zero deck. mild cam that pulls hard off idle to around 5500. i like the performer grind.
it'll run on pump gas.

put a 5200-5600 governor in the tranny so the shift points match the cam,and its gonna be a fun driver.


all the 401 power. NONE of the 401 problems.




i've done both. my 401 had a cracked liner at .030 just like yours. heck i wouldn't bother going .030 over on a 401 anymore.




now i realize people have gone .040 and beyond successfully. but you have a cracked liner at .030. yours aint gonna be one of them.




finally. having a 391 stroker under the hood is a hell of a lot cooler than a yaaaaawn....401...

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=92987

[Wagoneer Taylor]

i wouldn't. people get romantically attached to the 401. i have even. it's a motor that has been pushed to the very limit,as far as mass producing it,in that cubic inch. it is heat prone. the cylinders are thin. its really not that great of a motor. kinda like the 400 sbc.

no. i would not resleeve the whole block. thats 8 potential problem areas,that you are paying to install. and you would still need to go forged to get good pistons.

i did a 360/401 combo. and even tho the machine shop,and the clown that spec'd the pistons (Flatlander Racing, the owner who said tough beans after he saw the mistake) screwed it up. it was a great combo.

the only real expense is the pistons. i shoulda called wiseco myself. next time i will,and i would recommend you do the same. they know what to byuild for this. i do too now...learned the hard way.

the rebalancing you would do should be done with the 401 too,so thats not additional cost.

i would take crank and rods,put them in a 360 block,at about 9.5 CR at zero deck. mild cam that pulls hard off idle to around 5500. i like the performer grind.
it'll run on pump gas.

put a 5200-5600 governor in the tranny so the shift points match the cam,and its gonna be a fun driver.

all the 401 power. NONE of the 401 problems.

i've done both. my 401 had a cracked liner at .030 just like yours. heck i wouldn't bother going .030 over on a 401 anymore.

now i realize people have gone .040 and beyond successfully. but you have a cracked liner at .030. yours aint gonna be one of them.

finally. having a 391 stroker under the hood is a hell of a lot cooler than a yaaaaawn....401...

I completely understand where you're coming from, I agree, that people (myself included) can get wrapped up in the 401 hype.
But for me its not so much about the power gains/torque monster status. This Wagoneer was originally a 401 Waggy and I would like to put it back to how it was, I'm not trying to build a crazy street engine either just a stock cruiser and camping rig.

Small update: Talked with machine shop and they think the Crack may be a scratch amplified by my backyard hone job. They will bore and see for sure in the next couple days.

Overall I have decided to go ahead with the 040 over and take the risk on it running hot. If it does I will upgrade the cooling system to help compensate. Not saying that is a fix but only time will tell.

In two years if it leaves me stranded, I will entertain the idea of a 401 built 360 like yours. That things sounded Boss! and I agree a much cooler build.

[Wagoneer Taylor]

I want to say, I don't take this advice lightly either. I absolutely appreciate everyone who chimes in.

Thank you.

[Ristow]

a cracked liner will usually have some coolant staining around it.

[Wagoneer Taylor]

I didn't see any staining. But I wasnt specifically looking before.

[Wagoneer Taylor]

Small update, the machine shop and I have been playing phone tag for a couple weeks but we finally connected and he should have my quote for parts today or tomorrow.

Lastly, the best quote I've heard in some time came from the machinist today.

He said " the new parts manager is more useless then pockets on underpants!"

That got me laughing at least, but ready for this engine to be done so I can get going on it!

[SC/397]

I have never had a over heating issue with boring a 401 +0.040" or even +0.060" over for that matter. At +.060" they should be sonic checked to make sure there is still around .100" wall thickness. I have a 401 block that I have sonic checked and it will be going to 4.250" bore.

Most of the overheating issues is from not cleaning the water passages in the block good enough. The water jackets around the back two cylinders are the worse. Full of sand casting and radiator stop leak that you can't get out by hot tanking only. It has to be dug out with a screwdriver. Another reason that could cause overheating is due to piston and ring clearances to the cylinder. The bigger the bore, the larger clearance required.

I am a believer in the hype of the 401 but that is not to say that a 360 can't be bored and stroked to be a formidable foe.

[Wagoneer Taylor]

Don't worry y'all, I'm still alive!
I hate giving excuses, but I'm also a hypocrite. So here are mine, with the engine at the shop during COVID and then the fires in Oregon the Wagon and house projects kinda took a back burner. Work has also been crazy busy, long story short - my work does purely prototype development of a product and we have since changed to FULL PRODUCTION in a matter of months, I am currently on a semi-permanent schedule of 10 hour shifts 5 days a week, and the last 2 weekends we have worked Saturdays as well!
Rant over.

Update time:
Larger house projects that hindered the continuation of the Wedding Wagon are just about wrapped up. Just need to buy/build a small shed, if any of you have a recommendation? I am all ears, this is just to house some yard equipment so I have room for Jeep disassembly.

I stopped by the machine shop for the engine yesterday and took care of all the miscommunication going on with the phone tag game we had going.
With that cleared up, there is potential that the block will be done today and I can pick it up this week!

Then it will be engine assembly (WITH PICTURES). At that point I will likely remove the 360 currently holding down the front of the rig because I need some brackets off of it.

Anyway hope to continue to update weekly from this point on! Cheers!

[rang-a-stang]

YAY!!!! (the engine part, not the fire or work part)

Excited to see your engine come together! Take your time. Make sure the clearances are correct to AMC. My machinist set mine up for a small block chevy (which is too loose for an AMC).

[SOLSAKS]

wagoneer taylor

glad you are doing well and projects are set to start back up,....

dave in NC

[Wagoneer Taylor]

YAY!!!! (the engine part, not the fire or work part)

Excited to see your engine come together! Take your time. Make sure the clearances are correct to AMC. My machinist set mine up for a small block chevy (which is too loose for an AMC).

Thanks for the heads up, I will be putting the engine back together myself. So hopefully I can keep an eye on those clearances.

[Wagoneer Taylor]

As you may have guessed I still have not received my engine block back. Small progress, I went there yesterday and they were just waiting on the pistons to do the final hone.

Ill go ahead and say it, hoping to pick up my block and parts this week!

[SOLSAKS]

now that you have said it, it will be two weeks.

ask me how I know,...

dave in NC