Going Diesel Need Opinions

[Tigger4X]

Go with a 93-98 P pump Cummins 6BT They have the best reputation for being able to upgrade and for not falling apart. You can also find some sort of adapeter plate or bell housing to fit them to almost any trans. finley excpt for the fuel pump. the moter was the same from 89 to 98 so you have 9 years worth of engines to pull parts off of. My 91 6bt with a 727 3speed gets 20mpg. A stock 4bt is going to be a DOG when compared to the 6bt. and if you want more power your going to end up with the same fuel mileage.

I have just started to get my toes wet in the diesel pond so forgive the foot in mouth if you would. What is the advantage of the 12V vs the 24V 6BT? From what I have read getting a late '98 thru '02 6BT and P-pumping it gave the best results while keeping the mods down. I'm not looking for shear foot stompin' black smoke throwin' power. For me its about getting the highest MPGs and loooong term reliability; having some power in reserve is nice when towing or running a good incline too. By going with a HD NV4500 will the MPGs improve over the TF727? I figured the OD would help out with the freeway milage. There is the 6 speed NV but I didnt see much advantage to it. Do you know what T-cases can run behind the NV trans besides the 241? From what I found the 241DHD with the PTO option was the strongest they had. Of course budget is big for my build so I'm betting I'll have to cobble something together.

[joe]

Are you sure that All came with Auto's?

Thanks for the tid bit
Nathan

All the ones built for export to the US were At's. A lot of Euro models have been brought over though but they're hard to find especially with the 5 spd. Even the 240D's built for export didn't get the 5 spds just the 4 spds or AT's They are around though. My neighbor has a 240d and a 300td(wagon) with five speeds both were brought over by different retiring military lifers stationed in Europe.
If you must run the 300D motor and want a manual just use a 4spd trans from a 240D(very common) and use the 240 flywheel with it. Works just fine and the MB 4 speed is bullet proof except for the hyd clutch slave.

[joe]

The 3208 is too big to fit the space. Not a great engine to start with in my experience (twins in a boat).

I agree. I've run lots of boats with twin 3208's and they are huge.

[MAPit]

I have just started to get my toes wet in the diesel pond so forgive the foot in mouth if you would. What is the advantage of the 12V vs the 24V 6BT? From what I have read getting a late '98 thru '02 6BT and P-pumping it gave the best results while keeping the mods down. I'm not looking for shear foot stompin' black smoke throwin' power. For me its about getting the highest MPGs and loooong term reliability; having some power in reserve is nice when towing or running a good incline too. By going with a HD NV4500 will the MPGs improve over the TF727? I figured the OD would help out with the freeway milage. There is the 6 speed NV but I didnt see much advantage to it. Do you know what T-cases can run behind the NV trans besides the 241? From what I found the 241DHD with the PTO option was the strongest they had. Of course budget is big for my build so I'm betting I'll have to cobble something together.

Nothing you have found the best Power with out going to a commen rail 24v. Just keep in mind a P pump runs around $1,200 for a rebuilt unit. you can find a decent P pump motter for that much. If your not looking for MAXUM power i a 12V should do fine. But I am NO expert. As for the Transmissions I have to think the more gears the better your econmie I have a 727 behind my 91 VEpump 12v and am geting 20mpg But i Really want to go manual so Have not been looking at the Autos.

[Tigger4X]

It still leaves me wondering if I would be better off holding out for a 24V instead of a 12V. Again I'm not looking for rompin stompin power, but wanting some power in reserve for hills and towing which is gonna serve my MPGs and power needs the best? Is it worth it so save money on the upfront purchase of a 12V and throw a bit extra at it to wake it up? I was told that the late '98 thru 2000 5.9s were 24V which also meant they had a computer on them, but it could be eliminated by by swapping out to a P-pump which makes the entire engine mechanical, save two wires for power only.

[Bill Moore]

Have you considered a marine dsl? I have done swaps to boats with dual marine Gm 350s. Engines used were Yanmar 4 cyl Turbos.

It could be expensive to buy a new one, but the chances of finding a used one is pretty good.

where do the used yanmar engines come from? wrecked tractors?

[Bill Moore]

Cummins is the only real industrial diesel out of the big three. Powerstroke and Duramax are both good engines for trucks, but at the end of the day they are not built for industrial applications.

A 4BT is a perfect match for a FSJ. A 6 would be great if you can make it work.

good point, and the mechanical ones to boot, from what I have read the electronic versions have been cheapened considerably and dodge may have a body now that lasts as long as their engine!

[tndonor]

You can adapt the 4l80e to a Cummins with a GM auto adapter. They are going for around 500 give or take. If you put a 6BT in front of it, you will really have to leave it stockish.....they cant take the power (torque) and be expected to live long. You will also need to think of a torque convertor with a lower stall speed for the Diesel application. You can build a 4L80e to handle power....it is just $$$$ and you might as well get a 47rh/re at that point.

If you put a 4B in front of it, no worries.

You will still need a stand alone controller if your unit didnt have the stand alone from the factory.

My 0.02

[tndonor]

Cummins is the only real industrial diesel out of the big three. Powerstroke and Duramax are both good engines for trucks, but at the end of the day they are not built for industrial applications.

A 4BT is a perfect match for a FSJ. A 6 would be great if you can make it work.

Yes sir.....they are the only engine (mentioned for this purpose) to get a medium duty rating based on expected service life

[iroc86]

Cummins is the only real industrial diesel out of the big three. Powerstroke and Duramax are both good engines for trucks, but at the end of the day they are not built for industrial applications.

Yes sir.....they are the only engine (mentioned for this purpose) to get a medium duty rating based on expected service life

While not one of the Big Three, the medium-duty Isuzu 4BD1(-T) started life as combination industrial/truck engine in the late '70s, used in everything from excavators and boats to box trucks and Land Rovers. A manual GM transmission adapter exists for these industrial Isuzus, too.

[Eugene 1]

While not one of the Big Three, the medium-duty Isuzu 4BD1(-T) started life as combination industrial/truck engine in the late '70s, used in everything from excavators and boats to box trucks and Land Rovers. A manual GM transmission adapter exists for these industrial Isuzus, too.

Isuzu makes the Duramax don't they ? or designed or something like that ?

[Pavementsux91XJ]

It still leaves me wondering if I would be better off holding out for a 24V instead of a 12V. Again I'm not looking for rompin stompin power, but wanting some power in reserve for hills and towing which is gonna serve my MPGs and power needs the best? Is it worth it so save money on the upfront purchase of a 12V and throw a bit extra at it to wake it up? I was told that the late '98 thru 2000 5.9s were 24V which also meant they had a computer on them, but it could be eliminated by by swapping out to a P-pump which makes the entire engine mechanical, save two wires for power only.

I'd go with the 12 valve if your not going with a full race application. I have driven VE and P pumped 12 valces and I can tell you that my 24V with a chip will run circles around them BUT... The install would be much more complex, plus, if your going to P pump the 24 V, you would lose most (not all, but most) of the reason for getting the 24 valve. Add into that that most 98 and 99 and some 00 and 01 24v should be out of the question due to the "53" code brazil block that likes to crack and your going to have a hard time finding a good one. I can tell you that a bone stock 4wd 2500 dodge extra cab long bed has power to spare with the P pump, which means in something as light as a j-truck, that engine will have PLENTY of power.

Something for everybody to keep in mind though. These diesel engines were built to tow in trucks, or for the economy in cars. Other than the new CRD engines, they are not rocket ships. Bone stock they are only going to rev to about 3 grand and it will take them awhile to get there. Its in their design and the fuel they use. I'm not going with a diesel swap, even though I am a diesel mechanic, for just that reason. Gas engines are for horsepower and fast revs, diesels are for torque and pulling. Use your Jeep for mud much? You'll be watching your turbos puke up there turbine wheels. Live in a cold place? startings gonna be fun. I hate to burst anybodys bubble, but those diesels you see in the magazines have a ton of $$$ put into them to make them handle that power. And if your not a diesel mechanic, repairs are more expensive. If the injection pump goes out or starts leaking which will happen to the older pumps when run on the new standard ULSD diesel or bio-juice, your looking at $1000 plus to fix it for parts alone.

I'll get off my soap box now. I've just seen way too many people buy diesels to be cool and think that out of the box they act like the ones in the magazines only to end up either selling them because they can't afford the repairs or blow them up because they don't know what theyre doing.

[joe]

I

Something for everybody to keep in mind though. These diesel engines were built to tow in trucks, or for the economy in cars. Other than the new CRD engines, they are not rocket ships. Bone stock they are only going to rev to about 3 grand and it will take them awhile to get there. Its in their design and the fuel they use. I'm not going with a diesel swap, even though I am a diesel mechanic, for just that reason. Gas engines are for horsepower and fast revs, diesels are for torque and pulling. Use your Jeep for mud much? You'll be watching your turbos puke up there turbine wheels. Live in a cold place? startings gonna be fun. I hate to burst anybodys bubble, but those diesels you see in the magazines have a ton of $$$ put into them to make them handle that power. And if your not a diesel mechanic, repairs are more expensive. If the injection pump goes out or starts leaking which will happen to the older pumps when run on the new standard ULSD diesel or bio-juice, your looking at $1000 plus to fix it for parts alone.

I'll get off my soap box now. I've just seen way too many people buy diesels to be cool and think that out of the box they act like the ones in the magazines only to end up either selling them because they can't afford the repairs or blow them up because they don't know what theyre doing.

Great reality check post.
I'm not a mechanic dsl or otherwise but have owned a few and worked dsl boats for years. Dsl motors are great for pull power and mpgs as mentioned above but there is "nothing" cheap about dsl's. Be it buy-in, adapters, stock parts, hipo parts, shop time, etc etc Yeah mpgs are impressive compared to gas but if filling your gas tank for $100 is hurting you then you can't afford a dsl swap either. Save your swap money for gaso. I love dsl's but they're not for the 'light of wallet' If you really want to swap buy whatever you can afford in good condition regardless of flavor, deal with the swap costs then deal with the other issues as they come up.
Yup those magazine dsl trucks you see at the drap strip or pulling buildings off their foundation are way cool and prolly cost more than your house. Those aren't getting 400,000 miles between rebuilds either.

Before dsl dreaming know your litations: financially and mechanically.

[lobie]

Don't understand why y'all say a diesel is more difficult to work on. They are the most simple motor in the world. Yes they cost more to repair but you get what you pay for. Reliablity. Why do we want a diesel from a mag. We don't. We want something with reliability and mild torque. We're not trying to pull sleds. This isn't the compition diesel form. As far as the ULSD goes just use 2 stroke oil as a supplement. You can read about it on the cummins forum. Not a big deal.

If anyone is interested in diesels.... Go for it. Do some research. Go to 4bt swaps or the cummins forum. And read.

[Pavementsux91XJ]

I hope nobody takes my post as a "Don't do it or I'll think your stupid" post. I'm just trying to give the "con" side of the argument. I personally do think older diesels (tier 0, 1, 2) are easier to work on than gas engines. There are plenty of reasons to do a diesel swap. I am not the utmost authority on diesel swaps, but I am a journeyman equipment mechanic in charge of a fleet of diesel powered trucks and tractors. I've worked on cats, cummins, deere, internationals, kubotas, yanmars, etc. My goal there was kind of a reality check. They cost big $$. I can rebuild an injection pump, but they are alot more complex than carbs. For instance, you rebuild a stanadyme pump like are on the Deeres and Internationals and you put the governer in backwards (very easy to do) and those engines will rev to 8000 RPM with NO way to shut them down until they finally blow up. My gf just bought an old ram 50 with a leaky pump. That pump costs 1200, parts alone. We only got it because I know a seal kit is $100 and I can rebuild the Bosch VE pumps. The 2 stroke oil trick works to prolong the life of the mechanical parts of the pumps, not the seals. The new ULSD diesel is actually B2.5 (2.5% bio diesel) The older ones will evantually leak, trust me, I have a fleet of 50 tractors and the older pumps (pre 94ish) have puked their guts out.

Like I said, I don't want to say dont do it, but I am saying, be prepared, do your homework, and make sure its what you really want before you dump big $$ into a swap and regret it.

I just realized I am completely hijacking this post, my bad!