Diesel drivetrain options...

[76FSChief]

Im going the 12v 6bt route, and although it isnt rolling yet I spent a lot of time researching the swap. By the end I had decided either a 4 or 6, but was able to find a 91 and 92 Dodge with the 12v drivetrain complete so went that way.

IMO the mechanical Cummins is the way to go because it opens up so many options in regards to DIY and fuel alternatives.

[Dos Jeepos]

Not knowing anything about California vehicle laws, I will say this. The 6.2 was readily available in 1/2 ton Chevy Blazers, 1/2 ton Chevy trucks and Suburbans, both civilian and military, so that shouldn't be a problem.

That is exactly correct. I have talked to a BAR referee near where I live and brought to him my case and it would be a leagal swap. Also because the military J-code is smog exempt, as I stated before, I will not need to get any more smog checks even though my J-10 is a '76.

[uglyjeep]

The possible problem with smog on the 6.2 engines is the j-code (heavy duty) vs. c-code (light duty) engines. The c-code engines had various differences (injectors and other differences in the heads), but most noticable is the EGR in the intake manifold. You may be required to swap out the intake manifold to one with an EGR to get it past registration, and then you could just swap it back after. But, it sounds like you've found a decent BAR ref.

[uglyjeep]

For other CA residents searching for diesel swap options, I constantly see this brought up regarding the 6.2 but not so often for cummins or any other manufacturer's engine. The majority of diesel trucks available as donors are 3/4 or 1 ton trucks. Someone is just as likely to have a problem registering their swap with a j-code 6.2 as with a cummins (more likely with non-automotive engines), if a CA BAR referee is going give you issues over using an engine from a 1 ton vs a 1/2 ton. You may have to get clever to get it registered (or find a DMV employee/BAR ref who cant tell the difference).

http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResources/07_AutoRepair/Engine_Change_Guidelines.html

Don't mix engine and vehicle classifications which will degrade the emissions certification standards. For example, a heavy?duty engine cannot be installed in a light?duty exhaust?controlled chassis even if they have the same displacement. Non?emissions controlled power plants such as industrial or off?road?use?only engines may not be placed in any exhaust?controlled vehicle.

[dusty]

The possible problem with smog on the 6.2 engines is the j-code (heavy duty) vs. c-code (light duty) engines. The c-code engines had various differences (injectors and other differences in the heads), but most noticable is the EGR in the intake manifold. You may be required to swap out the intake manifold to one with an EGR to get it past registration, and then you could just swap it back after. But, it sounds like you've found a decent BAR ref.

THIS is what I was refering to. Engine class and vehicle class is what you have to be concerned with with a 6.2 swap. 6.2s came in light duty applications and heavy duty and the engines are different and CA smog refs are savy to this

Installer beware don't assume be meticulus or you'll spend alot of money and then have to redo things

The BAR ref will want the vin number from donor vehicle, the engine ID tag (declaring the class of vehicle it is from, vin also provides this info but they will look for it and request it) and they will check the casting numbers on the block and heads. they are very detailed when they approve a conversion i've thrown a fair number of curve balls at many different CA ref's and they dont miss much when there are numbers on the motor. strokers are a different ball game but when you put a diesel into a half ton their microscope come out. Federal emissions model or not the 1/2 ton classification of the vehicle is what will really put you under the inspection recticle.

ask away we'll do what we can to help you. but there are more ways than one to scirt CA smog laws, different counties, mailing address vs declared garaged address, rebuilds via buying a second rig and using your rig as a donor and the older rig as the vin, frame and drivetrain.......... the list goes on and on. don't stress too much but do not assume that since it is a out of state half ton that you can install a J code 3/4 ton+ motor in there without getting a ref to give you the thumbs up before the conversion id hate to see you run head on into them they are a pita, ive battled them on more than one diesel conversion even with a 1/2 ton chevy diesel into an older 1/2 ton chevy truck. they dont like disels and know very little about them what they dont know they turn down quick

[Dos Jeepos]

For other CA residents searching for diesel swap options, I constantly see this brought up regarding the 6.2 but not so often for cummins or any other manufacturer's engine. The majority of diesel trucks available as donors are 3/4 or 1 ton trucks. Someone is just as likely to have a problem registering their swap with a j-code 6.2 as with a cummins (more likely with non-automotive engines), if a CA BAR referee is going give you issues over using an engine from a 1 ton vs a 1/2 ton. You may have to get clever to get it registered (or find a DMV employee/BAR ref who cant tell the difference).

http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResource...uidelines.html

Thank you uglyjeep for that information. I think why I'm able to do the conversion is because my J10 is originally from the state of Washinginton. This allows me to be able to do this. So doing a 6.2 swap is a personal preference for me. I admire all of us being so resourceful. This is what keeps our dreams alive. So I hope that we all can slip through the cracks of the "system" and if one ref is not as knowledgeable as the we should capitalize on this when we can.

[Dos Jeepos]

I found this article and it may be if some good use.

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/general/0703dp_gm_diesel_engine_swap/fuel_economy.html

[kiharaikido]

Out of curiosity, is anyone familiar with a shop (I'm in the southeast) that can install a 4bt/6bt/ or the Isuzu diesel? I've spent many hours looking at all the builds on here. I'm often impressed with some of the stuff you guys can do. I know I don't have the tools and I doubt I have the skills to do it so....

[uglyjeep]

I only know one shop that I'd trust to do a diesel drivetrain swap (Preferred Chassis Fabrication who builds the Scorpion). But - 1) they are in Tucson, 2)I'm sure there are other good shops, and 3)I'm a little biased.

I've seen many of his vehicles in person, and the quality and ingenuity of his builds is always jaw dropping. Not too long back he dropped a 2000-something Freightliner engine and drivetrain into a 54 Mack fire truck for the Last Alarm Foundation. That truck is beyond beautiful. One of his personal trucks is a Dodge M-37 powered by either a Nissan or Isuzu diesel (don't remember- I haven't seen it in several years). And, I think, the majority of Scorpions get built with the 4bt.

I'm going off topic in a thread I started .

[lobie]

Out of curiosity, is anyone familiar with a shop (I'm in the southeast) that can install a 4bt/6bt/ or the Isuzu diesel? I've spent many hours looking at all the builds on here. I'm often impressed with some of the stuff you guys can do. I know I don't have the tools and I doubt I have the skills to do it so....

There's a guy in the Charlotte area that does cummins swaps (mostly fummins, ford to cummins swaps). I bought my 6bt from him. I am out of town but I will see if my wife can get his number tomorrow.

[ReevesDiesel]

No market for it I dont understand how this could be true. Everybody is clamoring for better MPGs and saving money so how can that statement be close to accurate? I'd hedge my bet that its got something to do with OPEC or some self serving group interest. Sounds a bit conspiracy theorist, but it is what it is.

This is a subject that I find very interesting. I am determined to learn more about the inner workings of our system. As a country we often sabotage ourselves and our opportunity for growth and innovation. for reasons I don't fully understand.

My wife and I travel abroad quite often, after returning from a trip to Belize and seeing that every singe vehicle was operated on diesel fuel. I returned home with some expected frustrations with our choices in the US market.

Being a life Long diesel mechanic my mind began to wonder what I can do to change this situation. My only answers were to start doing diesel conversions to help facilitate the few while I research and learn the short falls in our system that prevent the masses from excepting the gift of higher fuel mileage, lower fuel bills, longer engine life and yes, more power. Diesel can be very fun to drive and reliable!

[joe]

I agree with you but good luck on what you can do about it. Dsl has big obstacles and no it's not OPEC or the gas companies. The big ones are C.A.R.B.and the EPA. CARB hates the D word and has a lot of political power. One of the biggest reasons gas/dsl is so expensive is not supply/demand or the price of crude but lack of refineries. We could be floating in crude oil and the price of the finished product won't change. We haven't build a new refinery since 1973 and the ones we've got are old, maint intensive and already producing at max capacity 24/7/365. EPA needs to regroup and get real at least for a bit till we get some plants built.The last few decades have done a lot to dispel the old GM flop fear of dsl days. These years of dsl powered pickups has done much to show people yeah dsl works well for the average guy. There IS a market here for dsl cars that many companies would love to be part of but getting a dsl car past DOT/EPA certification for exporting is crazy expensive. Study up on what the greenies are always saying and help dispell those lies. Yeah the see an old dsl bus blowing black smoke and scream pollution. Yup they pollute too but with less harmfull effects than gaso exhaust. Dsl smoke is visible because it carries particulate matter like smoke from your wood stove but that junk settles unlike invisible gasoline exhaust gases that rise into the ozone and cause harm.
For normal folks it's all about what's it gonna cost me. If we can get past the DOT/EPA hoops so they can export cars w/o adding that cost to the cars a reasonable cost dsl cars will sell. Add to that a reasonable cost and steady supply of finished product(refined fuel not crude) and lotsa folks would switch. (dsl is cheaper to refine than gaso too, it comes off the line sooner)
Good luck with your quest, you've got a lot of believers but it's an uphill battle for sure.

[dukeraul84]

Completely agree with the fuel nonsense, if everything on the road and every military ran diesel, it might get kinda pricey, government my think it's best to protect the private sector here.

Anyhoo, I have been planning a build for a 1st gen dodge I originally bought as a donor, but then bought p pumped block anyway. I've been thinking and collecting parts for about 5 years, and over the past year I haven't been able to get the grand wagoneer idea out of my head.

So does anyone think a 6bt, zf6/np271, dodge frame (cut of course), hp dana 60 front, and dana 70u rear would fit? I had planned on coils up front in the truck, and would like to do that with a waggy as well, 4 link it. I roughly measured for length, and if the motor moved forward, it looked doable, but I lot tougher/tighter than putting it under a truck. 35's and 3.55's would put me just over 1700rpm's @ 70.

[tgreening]

I agree with you but good luck on what you can do about it. Dsl has big obstacles and no it's not OPEC or the gas companies. The big ones are C.A.R.B.and the EPA. CARB hates the D word and has a lot of political power.

The EPA for sure can be a pain in the arse at times, but has anyone here ever been to someplace where diesel is the primary fuel, sans any real EPA type regulations?

Spend some time someplace like Mumbai India and I guarantee you will come away with a new appreciation for pollution regulations. That place makes the worst California smog day seem like a breath of spring time country air. One of the most horrible places I've ever set foot.

[Mikel]

The EPA for sure can be a pain in the arse at times, but has anyone here ever been to someplace where diesel is the primary fuel, sans any real EPA type regulations?

Spend some time someplace like Mumbai India and I guarantee you will come away with a new appreciation for pollution regulations. That place makes the worst California smog day seem like a breath of spring time country air. One of the most horrible places I've ever set foot.

Environmentalism is a hobby of rich people. When your choice is walking to work 15 miles away or riding a smoke-belching 50cc moped, clean air takes a back seat.