Going Diesel Need Opinions

[PlasticBoob]

Seeing as how wagoneerlover isn't around right now, may I ask why you'd pick the 6.5L over a 4bt based on his requirements?

Well honestly I know squat about diesel conversions, but I do plan on swapping in a 4BT in the future. IIRC When I was doing my diesel swap research, the 6.2/6.5 was the best way to go with the least amount of trouble. I could be wrong though, that was over a year ago. Seems that the 6.5 meets Wagoneerlover's requirements for being:

1) Something you can get your hands on. Out here in So. Cal., I see lots of 6.2/6.5s for sale but rarely a proper 4BT or even the Step Van they came in for sale. The GM diesels were cheaper too. Again, my info is a little dated so this may have changed recently.

2) Something realistic. Supposedly even the 4BT weighs so much that you may need different springs, etc. Supposedly the 6.2/6.5 are much lighter and if it does bolt right up to the 4L80E then that cuts out some expense.

3) Actually I have no idea if the 6.5 operates independently of the trans.

Don't crucify me if my info is wrong, my memory is a little fuzzy on this since I won't be doing my diesel swap for at least a few more years and one more 401.

Personally I will be going with a 4BT no matter what the costs/headache, but I did give serious thought to the GM diesels too.

[KyooMac]

I didn't read every post, but I think some people here didn't see the OP's requirements. Normally I'd suggest a Cummins 4 or 6BT, but based on what he stated, I voted GM diesel, specifically the 6.5L - spend some time on the Hummer forums and you'll see it's not nearly as bad as the 6.2.

I worked on HMMWV's in the Corps and the 6.2 Liter diesel was a POS, but GM worked the kinks out of the 6.5L and he already has a 4L80E. I love diesel and the 4BT and 6BT are great motors. But I think the weight issue is being overlooked. If we're going to go with what we would really want then I vote a Continental V-12 750 hp air-cooled, twin-turbocharged diesel engine, that came in the M60 tanks I also worked on in the Corps. A couple of AAL's and he'll be OK.

[gotmike]

i believe he can get a standalone computer setup for the 4l80E... and then he can mate it to anything he wants... i know that cummins will fit up there... i've got one in mine... and it's an awesome setup... i also know that the 6.5 rev's much higher and can be built to run like a freight train... but i'd still go with the cummins if i could... the only downfall is the height of the motor... he can set it very high in the engine bay to keep his ride height down but he will have to put a dana 60 up front with much heavier springs and at least a dana 60 in the rear as well... i'd vote for a dana 70 hd or a 14 bolt... but then again i'd also trade that auto for an NV4500 or a NV 5600 6-speed... both can be found mated to a cummins from the factory so they're easy to setup...

[Wagoneerlover]

The 4bt sounds like it might be a winner. Jeepingpete, I will send you a pm perhaps there is an adapter around for the isuzu engine. (Although the rig that I am eying is probably going to be a 90, (The rig that it would go in) If I can wrestle it away from the shop that it has been sitting at for like two years (All of a sudden right when I want it though there are customers who have been eyeing it and he wants top dollar for it) it is in great shape though but I hate when shops/people do that!


Gotmike, yes I could purchase a stand alone controller for the 4l80e but I refuse to do so when I know how to make a controller for the 4l80e myself.

[JeepinPete]

My Isuzu has an adapter already for a SBC patterned transmission. Your 4L80E will bolt right up. I had it installed with a Chevy NV3500, drove it around the yard a bit, but never finished it up enough to take it on the road.

[iroc86]

This thread over on 4btswaps.com highlights a lot of transmission options for the Isuzu 4BD engines. It's geared towards manual transmissions, but there's a lot of good info there.

[Carleysjeep]

I love the Cummins 6BT, I have one that I would like to put in my wag, but they weigh 1200 lbs and that can't be ignored.

[Wagoneerlover]

I love the Cummins 6BT, I have one that I would like to put in my wag, but they weigh 1200 lbs and that can't be ignored.

I think an engine like that would be more suited to a chevy suburban or a Ford Bronco or something like that. Big vehicles you know? The wag simply is too small a rig for a 1200 pound engine. (I know it can be done but really like stated I feel that the 6bt is too big and heavy and more suited to larger SUV's and pickups.

[Salt O'daniels]

I was pretty scared of the 6BT in my wagoneer with the weight and all, but it actually handles really well and is well balanced. It has excellent road manors. the previous owner did however install 2" drop shackles in the front since that is how much the engine dropped the ride height.

[DAHoyle]

4bt or 6bt Cummins Turbo inline motor powerfull most reliable engines out there Powerchoke would be a nightmare to swap in there most 4BT come with a chevy bolt pattern for your trans

Minor correction here.
Most Cummins 4BT do not come with a GM bolt pattern.
The Cummins uses a Bellhousing adapter which goes between the engine and bellhousing, and there are many many versions available.

GM
Ford small block pattern
at least 2 Dodge Patterns
SAE2
and SAE3.

Of all of those, I would say that the GM and Ford pattern are the least common.

There are plenty of GM adapters out there, for a Automatic, but the flywheel for a manual is rare as hens teeth.
Given the number of Cummins powered Dodges out there, I would have to say that the most common bellhousing adapters are 'you guessed it, Dodge. There are many many times more Dodges sporting the Cummins than there are Bread vans.

Which is most common is pretty much irrelevant, since on any given day, a search on one of the forums or craigslist, or Ebay, will generally find you which one you desire, with the exception of the SAE versions. You can find them at truck salvage yards and such, but you have to know what you are looking for. All the newer bread vans and delivery trucks are running the SAE adapters, generally the SAE3.

[BGW]

Pardon my asking, but how come practically no one here seems to like Ford diesels? Do they not fit well, or do the people here just really hate Ford?

Why not Detroit? That would be my dream combo. I think weight is a huge deal there, though. I don't think they make many smaller diesels. The wonderful diesel scream those fuel pinchers let out make the other issues with that series seem less important. Those are my favorite diesels, sound-wise.

[COLOFIREMAN]

Pardon my asking, but how come practically no one here seems to like Ford diesels?

From what I've seen most fords, except the 6.9, have a lot of running problems. And all fo them are very under powered for the size, plus all of them eat glow plugs and relays for lunch. The 7.3 IDI tow truck we have here is always down for one reason of another.... This is the main reason why people with Powerstokes are "destokeing" them.... www.destroked.com

Why not Detroit? That would be my dream combo. I think weight is a huge deal there, though. I don't think they make many smaller diesels. The wonderful diesel scream those fuel pinchers let out make the other issues with that series seem less important. Those are my favorite diesels, sound-wise.

Yes but to make a Detriot work one must rap it up where as a Cummins, Isuzu, or John Deere, all gte there torque at the low end. I agree a good running Detriot sound great climbing a hill..
VIDEO 1

[BGW]

Thanks for clearing things up for me! That is a sweet truck. I have personally had good experiences with the Ford diesels, that's why I was wondering.


Another Detroit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7qgDauSjhk

[1-tonmudder]

From what I've seen most fords, except the 6.9, have a lot of running problems. And all fo them are very under powered for the size, plus all of them eat glow plugs and relays for lunch. The 7.3 IDI tow truck we have here is always down for one reason of another.... This is the main reason why people with Powerstokes are "destokeing" them.... www.destroked.com

The 6.9's and the non powerstroke 7.3's are pretty weak but not as bad as a GM 6.2 or 6.5.One of the main reasons everybody is "destroking" is that the cummins engines are cheaper and easier to find when it comes time for an engine.Dodge cant build a truck that will last as long as the engine does.A 150K mile cummins around here can be had for $1000-$1200 and a equal miled psd will be $1800-$2200 or more

For conversons the cummins 4&6BT's are the way to go hands down due to their simplicity.I see people making jokes about the powerstrokes but mine has 370K on it and has been a very good engine.They just have more electronics on them which makes a conversion usin them almost impossible.

I wouldnt waste my time or money trying to use a 6.2 or 6.5 GM diesel.

Disclaimer-I am not talking about the newer 6.0's and 6.4's Power strokes as they have lot's of problems.I am only talking about the 7.3 Power Strokes.

[BGW]

Dodge cant build a truck that will last as long as the engine does.

Yay! Someone here shares my opinion!