GM TBI unit size, airflow, and fuel pressure showdown

[AlsChopShop]

Da-hoyle, you are the most arrogant dumbasss i've ever met online. you were proven the point that the TBI system cannot utilize high pressure, and also pointed out that the factory book has a misprint.

don't try calling me out and saying i know nothing about TBI systems. my fleet has 3 tbi motors, its most of what i've known since i was into cars because i like the TBI system so much. i even double checked my facts with a guy who runs a 88-98 truck specific junkyard and he verified your completely off base and i was correct.

you know big words and theory on fuel injection, but you're still wrong on telling the original poster to go with a 454 tb, high pressure pump, and all that garbage you keep spewing to make yourself look like a know-it-all. you won't ever admit you're wrong, but we don't need you to. everyone can see it, as PlasticBoob printed more facts than you did. what was it, because you don't feel the need? come on, a 3 year old can find a better excuse. keep your theory's to yourself unless you are asked about them. and i'm pretty sure i'm not the only one who is tired of your attitude and garbage.

Going to throw in my 2 cents, and that is about all it's worth.

you misspoke. i think i'm going to print out your posts and wipe my butt with it. that should add some value to what you write.

Al

[DAHoyle]

Da-hoyle, you are the most arrogant dumbasss i've ever met online. you were proven the point that the TBI system cannot utilize high pressure, and also pointed out that the factory book has a misprint.

don't try calling me out and saying i know nothing about TBI systems. my fleet has 3 tbi motors, its most of what i've known since i was into cars because i like the TBI system so much. i even double checked my facts with a guy who runs a 88-98 truck specific junkyard and he verified your completely off base and i was correct.

you know big words and theory on fuel injection, but you're still wrong on telling the original poster to go with a 454 tb, high pressure pump, and all that garbage you keep spewing to make yourself look like a know-it-all. you won't ever admit you're wrong, but we don't need you to. everyone can see it, as PlasticBoob printed more facts than you did. what was it, because you don't feel the need? come on, a 3 year old can find a better excuse. keep your theory's to yourself unless you are asked about them. and i'm pretty sure i'm not the only one who is tired of your attitude and garbage.


you misspoke. i think i'm going to print out your posts and wipe my butt with it. that should add some value to what you write.

Al

First, your reading comprehension is pretty much abysmal.

I never said to go with a 454 system, and run a high pressure pump. I said the problem that most people have with the 454 throttle body was over fueling, and I stated that it could be tuned to run, by using smaller injectors, not higher pressures. I'll re-post it for the reading impaired.

Going to throw in my 2 cents, and that is about all it's worth.

By all means, toss in 454 throttle body. There is nothing wrong with it, and fuel flow is adjustable. I probably wouldn't run the injectors that came with it, and would step down to lower flow units. Chances are, you won't need all the fuel they provide, and there is no reason to try to tune around it. On the other hand, it can't hurt anything to have the airflow capability to upgrade, if you decide later to build a fire breather.

In any case, any given injectors flow rating, is at a specific pressure. Alter the pressure, and you alter the flow rating. Obviously, you can reduce the pressure to the 454 injectors to flow less, but IMHO, a smaller injector at a higher pressure, is better than the opposite.

Second, You have proven absolutely nothing, because you haven't come up with a single refernece. What the hell did you prove?

Really, can't use hight pressure? that is wrong. GM did, and It is pretty much established fact. A whole host of hotrodders and tinkerers have done so as well. I know for a fact that they did, and have pointed out references, and then PlasticBoob found the reference to the 30PSI run on the BBC system, from the factory. My personal rig is set to 15PSI, and aside from needing some tuning of the open loop table at idle, it works fine. The factory program handles it just fine everywhere except there. My intent is to go with smaller injecors, and crank it up even higher. I have proven it, and yet, you keep going back to the same thing. It never happened. Well, you need to change your tune, because you were wrong.


The comments I made on higher pressure, were directed towards a final tune, and I made mention of it because it is in fact tunable, as long as the fuel requirements of the engine are taken into account, and the computer tune matches the injectors, and the pressure chosen. If you don't get that, then, well, I don't know what to say. There is not much you can do with a closed mind, and I'm not interested in changing yours.

I don't care how many stock systems you have in your fleet, and I don't care how long you have been doing tuneups on stock systems. You are way behind the power curve on this, and whatever you and your salvage yard buddy think you know, you are mistaken. You wanted to make it personal by calling me out, on something I know for a fact, and all you have to go on is "this other guy told me". Well, great. All, I can say is, check your sources. I did. I actually have quate a large number of them, both from guys who have gone way overboard in tuning these systems, as well as the folks who have created many of the products which make it possible. I can find as many references as I want, and it won't influence you, or your lousy attitude,, so I won't bother. The facts are pretty much established, and the OP, and everyone else is free to make up their own mind. I'm thru with the subject, because I really could care less what you think. My intent was to provide facts, and provide options to those who may be interested. You aren't interested, so you don't need to accept them, but on the other hand, there was no reason for you to try to call me out on it, other than to make it personal. You wanted references, and they were provided, and PlasticBoob expanded on them as well. Rather than comment on the facts, you want to call me out again. Well, no dice. Come up with something to back your claim, other than "I never heard of it".

For evryone else, I am certainly not an expert, and have only my own experimentation and results to offer, but if you wish to know that, contact me by PM, and if I don't have an answer, I can certainly point you to someone who does. There are many more posibilities to the system, in both a performance standpoint, and to a lesser degree, an economy standpoint, than some around here would have you believe. The TBI system will support pretty much anything from mild to wild, depending on your desires, and the extent you wish to persue them. Multiple throttle bodies, forced induction, and any number of other possibilities exist for those wishing for them. Of course, a semi stock tune is easily obtainable as well from a couple of vendors, but a few data logs will get you a custom tune tailored specifically to your vehicle and driving style, for only a few dollars more.

[billyj7175]

Where's Hankrod when you need him?





Too soon?

[AlsChopShop]

First, your reading comprehension is pretty much abysmal.

i have no problem comprehending that you're way off base.

I never said to go with a 454 system, and run a high pressure pump. I said the problem that most people have with the 454 throttle body was over fueling, and I stated that it could be tuned to run, by using smaller injectors, not higher pressures. I'll re-post it for the reading impaired.

yes, you said go with a 454 but don't run its injectors.

Second, You have proven absolutely nothing, because you haven't come up with a single refernece. What the hell did you prove?

i didn't need to because plasticboob already got to it. i don't sit online all day waiting to inject online controversy like you do. i actually have stuff to do all day long that has importance.

Really, can't use hight pressure? that is wrong. GM did, and It is pretty much established fact. A whole host of hotrodders and tinkerers have done so as well. I know for a fact that they did, and have pointed out references, and then PlasticBoob found the reference to the 30PSI run on the BBC system, from the factory. bla bla bla....

did you not read what plasticboob posted? he clearly quoted that the factory manual had a misprint, probably because GM was writing the manuals for the vortec system which used hi-pressure.

The comments I made on higher pressure, were directed towards a final tune, and I made mention of it because it is in fact tunable, as long as the fuel requirements of the engine are taken into account, and the computer tune matches the injectors, and the pressure chosen. If you don't get that, then, well, I don't know what to say. There is not much you can do with a closed mind, and I'm not interested in changing yours.

did you even read the original post? the guy just wants to find a junkyard tbi system for his 360. he wasn't building a race car, was he? nope. so why even both mentioning a 454, or any of this other garbage that is wrong or does not apply at all? see, this is where you frequently barge in and spew a bunch of verbal vomit thinking you are coming across like an expert and trying to run everyone over with over-information. it doesn't work.

I don't care how many stock systems you have in your fleet, and I don't care how long you have been doing tuneups on stock systems. You are way behind the power curve on this, and whatever you and your salvage yard buddy think you know, you are mistaken. You wanted to make it personal by calling me out, on something I know for a fact, and all you have to go on is "this other guy told me". Well, great. All, I can say is, check your sources. I did.

who said i had only stock vehicles in my fleet? bit ASSumption on your part. nice try though. believe me when i tell you that you nor any of your friends can hold a candle to this specialist on this era of vehicles. i didn't make it personal, i simply asked for proof that your claims held any truth, and all you could come back with was "i don't really feel like i should have to". again, points were already sourced against what you said from multiple sources, and multiple users.

I actually have quate a large number of them, both from guys who have gone way overboard in tuning these systems, as well as the folks who have created many of the products which make it possible. I can find as many references as I want, and it won't influence you, or your lousy attitude,, so I won't bother.

who on this forum thinks i have a lousy attitude? only you. who thinks you have a lousy attitude? most everyone here, you've almost received the ban-hammer many times for garbage like this on other threads.

The facts are pretty much established, and the OP, and everyone else is free to make up their own mind. I'm thru with the subject, because I really could care less what you think. My intent was to provide facts, and provide options to those who may be interested. You aren't interested, so you don't need to accept them, but on the other hand, there was no reason for you to try to call me out on it, other than to make it personal. You wanted references, and they were provided, and PlasticBoob expanded on them as well. Rather than comment on the facts, you want to call me out again. Well, no dice. Come up with something to back your claim, other than "I never heard of it".

just as i predicted earlier, you won't ever admit your wrong. that's ok, we don't need you to, everyone else knows that your point was proven wrong. we have a special term used for people like yourself but i don't think i can post it here....

For evryone else, I am certainly not an expert, and have only my own experimentation and results to offer, but if you wish to know that, contact me by PM, and if I don't have an answer, I can certainly point you to someone who does. There are many more posibilities to the system, in both a performance standpoint, and to a lesser degree, an economy standpoint, than some around here would have you believe. The TBI system will support pretty much anything from mild to wild, depending on your desires, and the extent you wish to persue them. Multiple throttle bodies, forced induction, and any number of other possibilities exist for those wishing for them. Of course, a semi stock tune is easily obtainable as well from a couple of vendors, but a few data logs will get you a custom tune tailored specifically to your vehicle and driving style, for only a few dollars more.

yep, you aren't, so stop acting like one and stop spreading misinformation. you are way off base, walk away.

Al

[DAHoyle]

Forget it.

I posted a response, but it really doesn't matter. Pretty much everyone here can read, except you, apparently, so they can read what I said, and what others have said, and nowhere in there will they find your MIS Interpretations. You want to keep making a fool of yourself, it's fine by me. Feel free to misquote, misrepresent, or just outright lie, to make your point, if it makes you feel superior. It's gotten so bad that you are misquoting yourself to make a point, and I simply can't top that.

Seriously, You win.

On the other hand, as I said earlier, if anyone (other than Al)wants to discuss the subject in an intelligent manner, feel free to PM me.

[AlsChopShop]

"This message is hidden because DAHoyle is on your ignore list."

hey, this thread just got about a million times better.

Al

[Rance]

^ funny read. Judge Judy better watch out!

[PlasticBoob]

Something else I think I should add - I think the 454 throttle body is flowing just a little too much air to give me a nice low idle, even with the throttle plates fully closed. I have a slightly high idle in park (850-900 RPM) and gear, but I have no vacuum leaks and the mixture is set correctly. I'm not 100% certain that the 454 unit is the cause of my high idle, but it makes sense, especially since I have a nice low idle when it's cold. I think as it warms up, the butterfly gaps expand just enough to let in more air. It's not a big deal and the idle isn't so high that it's annoying. Or maybe I have the infamous TBI butterfly bushing wear? One more thing to get to on the list...