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First off I want to state that I have received a lot of help over at FSJN and thank everyone of you that has attempted to help with this but I seemed to have hit a wall and I need to resolve this soon. This is two threads blended together to tell the story so please bear with me and ask for any clarification you need I will give all the info I can.
During my 20'ish mile to work drive to work the Jeep GW 86 GW AMC 360 stock drove fine for the first 6 or so miles then for about 4 miles it spit, sputtered and generally acted like the ignition/ coil or something was junk. Drove to a little town pulled over in a lighted parking lot, popped hood, looked for obvious issues saw nine shut hood, drove the other 8-10 miles to work with no issues. Any ideas?
I recently replaced the battery and fuel pump nothing else has changed. Also it was raining this AM the whole way to work and I hit no puddles on the way to work.
Jaber- I have had puddles do nasty things to the distributer. Being on the front, the fan likes to through water at it.
Really leaning toward coil breaking down, same distance today, no rain, similar problem.
tgreese- How long have you owned this car? Have you replaced the ignition wires?
This is a typical scenario for old ignition wires in rainy weather.
One of the main advantages of the TFI upgrade is the conversion to and availability of inexpensive high-quality plug wires with the newer style push-on distributor terminals. These terminals are much more weather resistant than the old 'cup' terminals used on the cheaper cap.
I have had it since March or so.
I have no idea what TFI is but I know now it has MSD wires on a ford distributor with a coil on the York pump and a ford ignition box (it was replaced before i got it) on drivers inner fender.
Coil
Module
Dizzy
I am replacing cap, rotor, plugs, wires, and likely the coil this week. (At this point everything but the wires are new)
Serehill- Replace the ignition box first. It's hghly doubtful it's any of the other stuff. My money is on fuel delivery. Ignition box would be a distant second. Usually the wires & cap & rotor are consisttent once it starts it doesn't go away. The box could be intermittent.
Jaber- http://fsjeep.homestead.com/TFI_Upgade.html
Its an add on to your existing dizzy. The best advise on the ignition module is to make sure its either a Motorcraft or Napa brand. The others dont seem to last as long. There is also a way to replace it with a standard GM 4 pin module, if thats something you want to do.
Define fuel delivery, it just got a new pump two weeks
Jaber- If the hoses at the top of the tank were rotten, it would suck more air then fuel. My eagle had a tight bend in the hose from the tank and as it would warm up, it would pinch closed and limit fuel.
I have seen the ign. boxes shut down when heated to engine temps...
Serehill- New pump doesn't mean a lot. Assuming something is perfect is the mother of all puzzles. it could be anything from trash in the tank to a bad sock to a bad filter OR Gas lines like jaber said to filters to still a bad pump. So you recently put a new pump on there means this has been going on a while.
As symptoms were stated earlier usually the box dies it doesn't cool off while driving & get better. Wires crack carbon tracks are usually consistent & don't come & go. Fuel does. It may be something else. indicators say fuel.
I haven't had what i consider fuel issues while owning it had ran and drove fine, new pump made it not take so long in the AM to fill the carb to fire.
I'll update you guys next week with my findings or a for sale post.
So with this info in hand I start down the fuel delivery path...
Some background info seems appropriate here, on top of these problems my fan clutch was bad and causing it to run hot thus boiling the fuel so I replaced the fan clutch and the overheating problem is gone
Alright guys I posted I had a weird problem on the way to work one morning and it has now done it enough I am confident it is (as some of you said a fuel system issue). I'm going to give the details I know and I will answer questions that I have info for but I am stumped.
The system as I understand it is a stock tank and fuel line (delivery and return), 1973 pump (new about a month ago), steel fuel line into rubber with a "T" that goes to another piece of rubber line to a fuel pressure gauge to rubber line to holley carb. Now back to the "T" the other side of it has a fuel pressure regulator set at 4 psi and it feeds the return line (I turned it up to 5.5 psi yesterday)
I believe the system to be vapor locking, I pulled the bowl sight plug out yesterday and couldn't see fuel at all and filter (only and in and an out, no return line) was also empty. I have since reworked the system to take out the "T" so the pump feed goes straight to the pressure gauge them to carb, have not had the starvation issue since.
Any ideas? Do I need a return line?
Footnote I replaced the fan clutch today because it was bad and the temps would climb as I was stopped, heater running kept it somewhat cool and moving it was 220 'ish, now it is about 200 all the time.
Serehill- Take the regulator out & throw it as far as you can. Why do you have a regulator on a stock pump. Vented or not there is no way you getting enough pressure. Read the instructions very carefully on how to operate the regulator. They not only regulate pressure they restrict flow. It may not be all the problem you have but it's a beginning. Replace all rubber lines. the return line does help regulate pressure & maintain proper ventilation in the tank if you do not have a vented cap.
I didn't put it on the PO did.
So can I put a stock filter with the return line port on it? While running my fuel filter is now completely full
Serehill- Yes you can the filter will stay full if the regulator is restricting it. it really doesn't matter who put it on.
Just so we're on the same page the regulator wasn't in the main fuel line, it was in the return line that ran from the "T". I'll see if I can find a pic.
You can see it in the background here...
This is where it was, the line running left is the carb line the one with the regulator running right is the return line.
Serehill- That's is too weird. No wonder it has no delivery.
Two months later the problem is back...
Jaber. I am interested in hearing about the GM replacement module mod for this TFI system.
haminawag- Hmmmm.....no way you coulda gotten some water in the fuel?
Nope this thread is older, it was thought to be a vapor lock issue caused by it overheating. However it has done a few other things similar to this the last three days. I still think it's an ignition issue.
Jaber- Here you go. Some guys even gut their old MC unit and mount the GM in it as a heat sink...
Carnuck- After driving around for awhile, hit the ignition module with a rubber mallet and see if it stalls. That was the dealer test.
OK so I think that there may be two different issues going on or maybe the issue is causing both of these gremlins. Not only does it do that sputtering stuttering thing mentioned above but now on occasion it's like someone shuts the key off. It fires right back up everytime but sometimes it just shuts off while driving it... random not just when hitting a bump or anything else. Like this morning I drove it about 5 feet and it just shut off. Anyone have an idea?
Jaber- I have found this issue in the ignition switch under the dash. drop the 2 nuts holding the steering column to the dash and the switch is on top of the column. Also check the condition of the wires where they go into the plugs.
Carnuck- module headed south or a huge wad of keys swinging back and forth.
Not the keys, I have three on my key chain, house, charger and GW.
Jaber- Keys would effect the lock cyl, not the electrical switch. Age takes it out.
Ok so the switch and the ign module are the suspects. Got it I'll replace them both.
I'm gonna post a video to YouTube and link it here so you guys can hear what my jeep is doing, the new ignition module did not fix the problem.
I have not yet installed the ignition switch.
Video here
OK so you guys have a heads up it does it as I am turning left at the start and then after the second stop sign as I'm going up the hill it doesn't do it again after the red barn on the right. I know it's hard to hear but it is audible (I'm 39 as a reference to me being able to hear it)
During my 20'ish mile to work drive to work the Jeep GW 86 GW AMC 360 stock drove fine for the first 6 or so miles then for about 4 miles it spit, sputtered and generally acted like the ignition/ coil or something was junk. Drove to a little town pulled over in a lighted parking lot, popped hood, looked for obvious issues saw nine shut hood, drove the other 8-10 miles to work with no issues. Any ideas?
I recently replaced the battery and fuel pump nothing else has changed. Also it was raining this AM the whole way to work and I hit no puddles on the way to work.
Jaber- I have had puddles do nasty things to the distributer. Being on the front, the fan likes to through water at it.
Really leaning toward coil breaking down, same distance today, no rain, similar problem.
tgreese- How long have you owned this car? Have you replaced the ignition wires?
This is a typical scenario for old ignition wires in rainy weather.
One of the main advantages of the TFI upgrade is the conversion to and availability of inexpensive high-quality plug wires with the newer style push-on distributor terminals. These terminals are much more weather resistant than the old 'cup' terminals used on the cheaper cap.
I have had it since March or so.
I have no idea what TFI is but I know now it has MSD wires on a ford distributor with a coil on the York pump and a ford ignition box (it was replaced before i got it) on drivers inner fender.
Coil
Module
Dizzy
I am replacing cap, rotor, plugs, wires, and likely the coil this week. (At this point everything but the wires are new)
Serehill- Replace the ignition box first. It's hghly doubtful it's any of the other stuff. My money is on fuel delivery. Ignition box would be a distant second. Usually the wires & cap & rotor are consisttent once it starts it doesn't go away. The box could be intermittent.
Jaber- http://fsjeep.homestead.com/TFI_Upgade.html
Its an add on to your existing dizzy. The best advise on the ignition module is to make sure its either a Motorcraft or Napa brand. The others dont seem to last as long. There is also a way to replace it with a standard GM 4 pin module, if thats something you want to do.
Originally posted by serehill
Jaber- If the hoses at the top of the tank were rotten, it would suck more air then fuel. My eagle had a tight bend in the hose from the tank and as it would warm up, it would pinch closed and limit fuel.
I have seen the ign. boxes shut down when heated to engine temps...
Serehill- New pump doesn't mean a lot. Assuming something is perfect is the mother of all puzzles. it could be anything from trash in the tank to a bad sock to a bad filter OR Gas lines like jaber said to filters to still a bad pump. So you recently put a new pump on there means this has been going on a while.
As symptoms were stated earlier usually the box dies it doesn't cool off while driving & get better. Wires crack carbon tracks are usually consistent & don't come & go. Fuel does. It may be something else. indicators say fuel.
I haven't had what i consider fuel issues while owning it had ran and drove fine, new pump made it not take so long in the AM to fill the carb to fire.
I'll update you guys next week with my findings or a for sale post.
So with this info in hand I start down the fuel delivery path...
Some background info seems appropriate here, on top of these problems my fan clutch was bad and causing it to run hot thus boiling the fuel so I replaced the fan clutch and the overheating problem is gone
Alright guys I posted I had a weird problem on the way to work one morning and it has now done it enough I am confident it is (as some of you said a fuel system issue). I'm going to give the details I know and I will answer questions that I have info for but I am stumped.
The system as I understand it is a stock tank and fuel line (delivery and return), 1973 pump (new about a month ago), steel fuel line into rubber with a "T" that goes to another piece of rubber line to a fuel pressure gauge to rubber line to holley carb. Now back to the "T" the other side of it has a fuel pressure regulator set at 4 psi and it feeds the return line (I turned it up to 5.5 psi yesterday)
I believe the system to be vapor locking, I pulled the bowl sight plug out yesterday and couldn't see fuel at all and filter (only and in and an out, no return line) was also empty. I have since reworked the system to take out the "T" so the pump feed goes straight to the pressure gauge them to carb, have not had the starvation issue since.
Any ideas? Do I need a return line?
Footnote I replaced the fan clutch today because it was bad and the temps would climb as I was stopped, heater running kept it somewhat cool and moving it was 220 'ish, now it is about 200 all the time.
Serehill- Take the regulator out & throw it as far as you can. Why do you have a regulator on a stock pump. Vented or not there is no way you getting enough pressure. Read the instructions very carefully on how to operate the regulator. They not only regulate pressure they restrict flow. It may not be all the problem you have but it's a beginning. Replace all rubber lines. the return line does help regulate pressure & maintain proper ventilation in the tank if you do not have a vented cap.
I didn't put it on the PO did.
So can I put a stock filter with the return line port on it? While running my fuel filter is now completely full
Serehill- Yes you can the filter will stay full if the regulator is restricting it. it really doesn't matter who put it on.
Just so we're on the same page the regulator wasn't in the main fuel line, it was in the return line that ran from the "T". I'll see if I can find a pic.
You can see it in the background here...
This is where it was, the line running left is the carb line the one with the regulator running right is the return line.
Serehill- That's is too weird. No wonder it has no delivery.
Two months later the problem is back...
Jaber. I am interested in hearing about the GM replacement module mod for this TFI system.
haminawag- Hmmmm.....no way you coulda gotten some water in the fuel?
Nope this thread is older, it was thought to be a vapor lock issue caused by it overheating. However it has done a few other things similar to this the last three days. I still think it's an ignition issue.
Jaber- Here you go. Some guys even gut their old MC unit and mount the GM in it as a heat sink...
Carnuck- After driving around for awhile, hit the ignition module with a rubber mallet and see if it stalls. That was the dealer test.
OK so I think that there may be two different issues going on or maybe the issue is causing both of these gremlins. Not only does it do that sputtering stuttering thing mentioned above but now on occasion it's like someone shuts the key off. It fires right back up everytime but sometimes it just shuts off while driving it... random not just when hitting a bump or anything else. Like this morning I drove it about 5 feet and it just shut off. Anyone have an idea?
Jaber- I have found this issue in the ignition switch under the dash. drop the 2 nuts holding the steering column to the dash and the switch is on top of the column. Also check the condition of the wires where they go into the plugs.
Carnuck- module headed south or a huge wad of keys swinging back and forth.
Not the keys, I have three on my key chain, house, charger and GW.
Jaber- Keys would effect the lock cyl, not the electrical switch. Age takes it out.
Ok so the switch and the ign module are the suspects. Got it I'll replace them both.
I'm gonna post a video to YouTube and link it here so you guys can hear what my jeep is doing, the new ignition module did not fix the problem.
I have not yet installed the ignition switch.
Video here
OK so you guys have a heads up it does it as I am turning left at the start and then after the second stop sign as I'm going up the hill it doesn't do it again after the red barn on the right. I know it's hard to hear but it is audible (I'm 39 as a reference to me being able to hear it)
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