D60FF vs 14FF worth swapping?

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  • blazer3664
    350 Buick
    • Mar 08, 2009
    • 974

    D60FF vs 14FF worth swapping?

    What I am wondering is, if I already got the 60 is there enough difference (strength) between the D60FF and 14FF to make it worth the trouble to find someone to work a trade or sell the 60 to buy a 14?

    Lookin to pick up a parts truck ('79 F250) this weekend, and soon join the "I got a 60 up front" club. Its got D60's front and rear, and a 205 so I will have almost all the major parts (got my 203) for my doubler. Can't pass it up for $800, keep axles and T-case, part the rest, and might break even. If that happens I'll order the kit and be set except for shafts, and I can cut the furd shafts on a buddies lathe and lengthen/shorten as needed for now.

    Not too worried about gears, they will need changed anyway, lowest Ford used from what I can find is 4.10's.
    + for the 14
    The 14 is actually fairly common with 4.56's like I want, and I could always weld it and run it.

    + for the 60
    more lockers, I'll already have it (as long as this deal goes thru)

    Opinions ?????

    Thanks,
    Jim
    modified flares, removable top, OBA w/200psi tank,
    LQ4, 4L80e,NWF doubler w/upside down 203
    SOA w/ D44s F+R for now
    H1 wheels+tires (cut), hydroboost brakes
    custom shackle flip
    W/F150 springs
    -----Coming Soon-----
    snorkels,
    OX'd D60/14B-FF
  • jeeping1974
    360 AMC
    • Jun 17, 2007
    • 3066

    #2
    What size tires and how hard are you going to be running it?
    03 GMC 2500HD - DD/toy hauler
    06 Street Glide - Cruiser

    Comment

    • blazer3664
      350 Buick
      • Mar 08, 2009
      • 974

      #3
      38-40" tires and it will get wheeled pretty hard, but I dont have big rocks local (2.5 hr drive), so major crawling will only be occasional.
      Trails, logs, hills, mud, sand, and smallish rocks, sometimes all mixed in one and a little jumping, but no big air. Going to a 203/205 doubler too. Kinda leaning towards the 14, since I can probably find one with 4.56s already in it.

      Jim
      modified flares, removable top, OBA w/200psi tank,
      LQ4, 4L80e,NWF doubler w/upside down 203
      SOA w/ D44s F+R for now
      H1 wheels+tires (cut), hydroboost brakes
      custom shackle flip
      W/F150 springs
      -----Coming Soon-----
      snorkels,
      OX'd D60/14B-FF

      Comment

      • Twinpinion
        258 I6
        • Sep 03, 2003
        • 270

        #4
        Unfortunately, yes. The 14-bolt is significantly stronger. Your full-floating Dana 60 rearend likely has 1.31-inch 30-spline shafts, essentially the same size as a Dana 44 (although there is a rare version with 35-splines). It's true that the floater makes them a little more durable, but the 14-Bolt has larger shafts that are more comparable (and stronger) than a typical stock 35-spline 1.5-inch shaft. And as far as the ring and pinion go, the 14-bolt is massive. Huge increase in strength here.

        Overall it sounds like it will be a less expensive route for you to go with the 14-bolt, that is if you can accept the decreased ground clearance.

        Another option is to look into a Dana 70 HD. The 70s are a little more difficult to work with because there are several versions. But the HD has 35-spline 1.5-inch diameter shafts and a hefty ring gear in a package that's pretty much the same size as a Dana 60. They both use the same diff cover. But again, just not as common or as adaptable as the 14-bolt.

        I hate the 14-bolt because it's a boat anchor but it's really hard to beat it's low-cost strength.
        Last edited by Twinpinion; 02-26-2011, 05:16 AM.
        I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.

        Comment

        • blazer3664
          350 Buick
          • Mar 08, 2009
          • 974

          #5
          Your full-floating Dana 60 rearend likely has 1.31-inch 30-spline shafts, essentially the same size as a Dana 44 (although there is a rare version with 35-splines).
          Thanks, that part I didn't know. I am going to be looking for a 14, it will save me regearing one axle anyway.
          I already planned on shaving the shtuff## out of it if I went with a 14. A buddy of mine got his to 1/4 less hang than a 44, but its cut and got 1/4" plate on the bottom, dont think I'll get that crazy, but you never know.

          Jim
          Last edited by blazer3664; 02-26-2011, 05:28 AM.
          modified flares, removable top, OBA w/200psi tank,
          LQ4, 4L80e,NWF doubler w/upside down 203
          SOA w/ D44s F+R for now
          H1 wheels+tires (cut), hydroboost brakes
          custom shackle flip
          W/F150 springs
          -----Coming Soon-----
          snorkels,
          OX'd D60/14B-FF

          Comment

          • Tad
            • Nov 30, 2001
            • 17618

            #6
            I was able to get my 14-bolt darn close to a D60 by removing almost 7/8" and still kept the lower bolt hole.


            I dumped a few FSJ D60's along the way to a 14-Bolt, not so much for cost (they were already mine) or strength (I don't wheel that hard) but mainly for replaceability. If I break or bend something 300 miles from home all I really need is a town with 3-5K people and I'm sure I can find another or the parts I need.
            2000 Infinity QX4, 3.3L, MPFI, 4 speed auto, 2 speed Nissan tcase, Unibody, IFS front, 4 link rear solid axle with 255-70/16s

            IFSJA WMS PROJECT
            EARLY WAG LIFT SEARCH

            ...Pay no attention to these heathen barbarians with their cutting torches and 8" lift kits!...
            Self Inflicted Flesh Wound

            Comment

            • Sambo
              AMC 4 OH! 1
              • Sep 25, 2001
              • 3585

              #7
              nod 14 bolt has alot more easy "findable" parts if something should break.i just got thru beating mine up this morning in the rocks and made it home just fine.i literally mean beat it on the rocks.everyone asked if i was driving by brail!and i havent done anything except disc breaks and 5.13's!
              77 chero DEAD.
              84wag,360,tf727,???! possiblities are d300 flipped and a ford d44 hp with coils

              Comment

              • bearfacedkiller
                232 I6
                • Dec 21, 2003
                • 184

                #8
                the 14 bolt has a pinion support bearing which makes it much stronger. It is one of the only axles with it. That said, the 60 does have more clearance and weighs less and can run 1.5 inch 35 spline shafts with a carrier swap. I believe the 35 spline 60s came in fords so you might want to check yours if it is a special model like a camper special or snow fighter. Not a ford guy so don't know for sure. If you are going lower than 4.10 you will need a new carrier anyway. I went for the 14 bolt because I got one from a cucv with 4.56 and a detroit for cheap.

                14 bolt is cheap and strong!
                1985 GW: stock springs, SOA/SF, 3 inch body lift, d60 w/spool, 14ff w/detroit, 4.56 gears, 360/465/205 w/twin sticks and 40's.

                I really am going to get this thing done soon so I can drive it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                Comment

                • ClovisMan
                  327 Rambler
                  • Jan 05, 2009
                  • 678

                  #9
                  Also, a 14bolts are a dime a dozen and can be had for less than a hundred dollars with 4.10 gears already installed!!!
                  1988 Grand Wagoneer currently in pieces across the shop.

                  Comment

                  • Twinpinion
                    258 I6
                    • Sep 03, 2003
                    • 270

                    #10
                    Originally posted by bearfacedkiller
                    the 14 bolt has a pinion support bearing which makes it much stronger. It is one of the only axles with it. That said, the 60 does have more clearance and weighs less and can run 1.5 inch 35 spline shafts with a carrier swap. I believe the 35 spline 60s came in fords so you might want to check yours if it is a special model like a camper special or snow fighter. Not a ford guy so don't know for sure. If you are going lower than 4.10 you will need a new carrier anyway. I went for the 14 bolt because I got one from a cucv with 4.56 and a detroit for cheap.

                    14 bolt is cheap and strong!
                    It's stronger because it has a pinion support bearing? Come on man. The 14-bolt is stronger for a lot more notable reasons than just that. Huge 10.5-inch ring gear, heavy housing, giant 1.69-inch full-floating shafts...

                    The Dana 60 it's being compared to has a much smaller 9.75-inch ring gear and typically 1.31-inch shafts. Saying the 14-bolt is stronger because of the extra nose bearing is like saying the NASA space shuttle is more advanced than the Apple iPod because it has tires.

                    The reason it has a pinion nose bearing is because the separation between the two main pinion bearings is less than ideal. The 14-bolt needs that nose bearing to properly support the pinion gear and keep it from deflecting under load. Dana 60s, 70s, and 80s don't have or need that nose bearing because the separation of the pinion bearings is a greater distance. I mean yeah the nose bearing is a great design and all but that's not what makes the 14-bolt strong. In a way it's a band aid for not enough pinion bearing separation. And arguably that design is not really needed for most Jeeps. It's built that way to control deflection during extremely high torque loads like towing. Sure a lifted Jeep with big tires sees some torque loading but nothing like that. Ultimately the 14-bolt is stronger because of much more notable reasons than the extra pinion bearing. All of it's parts are freaking big and made with a lot of steel.
                    Last edited by Twinpinion; 02-27-2011, 05:32 AM.
                    I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.

                    Comment

                    • El Jefe
                      350 Buick
                      • Feb 04, 2005
                      • 1325

                      #11
                      In my opinion too 14 bolts are so much easier to work on then Danas.
                      Alex

                      76 Cherokee Chief
                      350/th400/d20
                      d44/14b
                      4" lift, 35 inch retreads

                      Comment

                      • Hippie Metal
                        327 Rambler
                        • Apr 11, 2009
                        • 612

                        #12
                        14bff all day
                        1984 GW T18/205

                        Originally posted by TheDude
                        Garrett called me maybe 30 minutes ago with a blown tire, but knowing PBR is on the line not much can stop us

                        Comment

                        • Blake
                          304 AMC
                          • Dec 22, 2005
                          • 2123

                          #13
                          I'm running a 14bolt with 5.38's and a detroit in the truggy. Can't seem to break it.

                          D60's FF rears are good too. I just picked one up from an 82 dodge with 4:09's
                          Please come on over to http://fsjnetwork.com/forum and have a look.

                          Comment

                          • blazer3664
                            350 Buick
                            • Mar 08, 2009
                            • 974

                            #14
                            First off, thanks for the opinions guys. I am goiing 14b for sure.

                            The turd deal fell thru anyway. Asked 3 times on 3 seperate phone calls, "yep its a 60" "yep kingpin 60". So,$100 in fuel and 3 hours later I get there and NOPE, 44 I told him I was not happy, cause I asked 3 times if he was sure. His answer,"I checked the rear and it a 60. I thought they would be the same." My quiet response "So I guess if you had a 3/4T chevy it would have had the ever elusive 14 bolt front hm" I had to leave in a hurry, I was getting madder with everything he said. I did tell him the other one he had listed as 44front 9" rear should note the front is TTB not straight. Then drove 3 hrs back.

                            End rant, sorry. Still kinda pissed

                            Good outcome, I found a set of gm 1 tons for the same moneys. May pick them up Saturday.

                            We'll see.

                            Jim
                            modified flares, removable top, OBA w/200psi tank,
                            LQ4, 4L80e,NWF doubler w/upside down 203
                            SOA w/ D44s F+R for now
                            H1 wheels+tires (cut), hydroboost brakes
                            custom shackle flip
                            W/F150 springs
                            -----Coming Soon-----
                            snorkels,
                            OX'd D60/14B-FF

                            Comment

                            • jeeping1974
                              360 AMC
                              • Jun 17, 2007
                              • 3066

                              #15
                              Originally posted by bearfacedkiller
                              the 14 bolt has a pinion support bearing which makes it much stronger. It is one of the only axles with it. I went for the 14 bolt because I got one from a cucv with 4.56 and a detroit for cheap.

                              14 bolt is cheap and strong!
                              The pinion support is a huge bonus in my eyes. Plus the fact that you don't need to measure spindles to see if there is enough material to bore them out for 35 spline shafts. Setting up gears in a 14B is much easier than a D60 as well. If you want to shave it, you can just take a sawzall to the lower chunk and gain some clearance that way. Ballistic also makes a kit where you can shave even more off and they will even turn a R+P set for you.
                              03 GMC 2500HD - DD/toy hauler
                              06 Street Glide - Cruiser

                              Comment

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