Lifting early FSJs

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  • jode
    JB Welder
    • Apr 08, 2002
    • 6376

    Lifting early FSJs

    Hey all - just cruising through the Rancho catalogue, and noticed that Rancho is claiming to sell 3" front lift springs for '63-'73 wags (PN RS24043)

    I thought nobody made lifts for early wags?

    Also, Rancho's catalogue shows that their RS44044s fit Wags from '74 and up....

    I thought '74 and '75 wags were post mount (making it so the 44044s wouldn't fit...)

    Can somebody clear me up on all this?

    TIA
    No FSJs for the time being - "I'm working on it, I'm working on it" (think Mike Meyers' SNL skit about the gut)
  • Tad
    • Nov 30, 2001
    • 17618

    #2
    Hmm, not sure but I'll be draging out the tape again this weekend it looks like. I was under the impression that the fronts were the same across the years and only the rears gave us trouble (talking wags and chero's here not trucks).
    We'll see, got several here that can be measured.
    2000 Infinity QX4, 3.3L, MPFI, 4 speed auto, 2 speed Nissan tcase, Unibody, IFS front, 4 link rear solid axle with 255-70/16s

    IFSJA WMS PROJECT
    EARLY WAG LIFT SEARCH

    ...Pay no attention to these heathen barbarians with their cutting torches and 8" lift kits!...
    Self Inflicted Flesh Wound

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    • jode
      JB Welder
      • Apr 08, 2002
      • 6376

      #3
      Well - that xplains it - if the fronts are the same, then that would mean that they could make a spring lift for the front end, and that the 44044s would fit the 74-75 years.

      So now my question is, why don't you early jeep guys just buy the front lift springs and throw some blocks under the rear? Sounds like a lift to me, and I had always been told there was no lift for the early rigs...
      No FSJs for the time being - "I'm working on it, I'm working on it" (think Mike Meyers' SNL skit about the gut)

      Comment

      • testuser
        Administrator
        • Apr 09, 2000
        • 3736

        #4
        didn't we have this arguement before jode

        I've tried to stay away from blocks personally. I've heard too many horror storys about them on the trail.

        Comment

        • jode
          JB Welder
          • Apr 08, 2002
          • 6376

          #5
          Originally posted by LRRH:
          didn't we have this arguement before jode
          LOL

          Didn't know we were arguing....
          I think that you have taught me previously that all pre-76 FSJs are post mount. That is why I was surprised to find that there were lift springs available for early wags...now Tadsal is saying that the front of early wags is not post mount (if I am interpreting what he wrote right)...
          I am very confused about the whole thing and just trying to figure out what is really going on...not trying to argue with anyone...so if you have some info, I'd like to know about it.

          PS - The whole thing about blocks is blown WAY out of proportion. Yes, they are not the "optimum" way to get lift, but thousands of people (including myself) have run them for years with NO ill effects. Is there a better way to lift? Yes, but blocks are cheap, allow you to retain stock ride quality, and are easy to install. IMHO, blocks have earned a bad rep on this board only due to a certain member who is constantly preaching against them for the promotion of his own product. They aren't THAT bad. Just my $.02
          No FSJs for the time being - "I'm working on it, I'm working on it" (think Mike Meyers' SNL skit about the gut)

          Comment

          • 4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado
            350 Buick
            • Oct 29, 2003
            • 757

            #6
            Many, many factory p/u's have blocks on the rear up to 4 inches thick on them....Go look at any late model Dodge for instance....My mid 80's Ranger had em too....

            If you use blocks all that you are losing is some control of the axle....So maybe under acceleration up a dirt hill that is rough, You may have a little wheel hop with blocks, prolly wouldnt have as severe of wheel hop with springs...

            The spring will twist more with blocks because you are creating more leverage against the spring...So if your not drag racing or doing major 4x4'n you will not notice a real big difference between blocks or springs....I wouldnt use blocks over 4in thick..

            Just please dont use blocks on the front..

            I know the early front springs are several inches shorter than the late ones...So they dont interchange...
            80 Cherokee S W/T 360/727/208 Daily Driver to Work Everyday driver. Really nice original Interior. My own Cool black paint job, with an AMC theme. Custom manual rear window. Painted Razor grille. 4 inch BJ's lift with Rancho shocks, custom fabbed bumpers, steel Levi rally wheels with 32 BFG at's. TFI upgrade, '98 S10 Blazer power steering box.

            Comment

            • jode
              JB Welder
              • Apr 08, 2002
              • 6376

              #7
              Originally posted by 4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado:
              I know the early front springs are several inches shorter than the late ones...So they dont interchange...
              Yes - that explains why there is a different part number for the 63-73 wags and for the 74-91 wags.
              No FSJs for the time being - "I'm working on it, I'm working on it" (think Mike Meyers' SNL skit about the gut)

              Comment

              • 89grand
                Resident ***hole
                • Feb 23, 2003
                • 5667

                #8
                Yeah, I mean, I'm getting the 4" lift from BJ's with all 4 springs but I think the block problem has been blown way out of proportion. I was going to bring up the factory blocks in Dodge, among others too not to mention the tools driving the Superduty's with like 8" blocks. I'm not saying blocks are it especially the dumbass 8" ones under Ford SD's but I think with a 4" lift, which would probably come with only 3" rear blocks, under most circumstances no one would even know they were running blocks if you didn't tell them. Now on the front, well they would be lowering blocks unless you've got SOA. I think blocks of 4" or less are pretty reasonable. I'm not going with them but only because I want 4 new springs and the additional cost doesn't bother me, if I was on a budget I'd get blocks.

                [ February 13, 2004, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: 89grand ]
                Steve

                1989 Black Grand Wagoneer, BJ's 4" lift, ProComp ES3000's
                31x10.5x15 BFG AT KO's,MSD 6A,TFI upgrade,360,727,229,2.72 gears.
                2006 Dodge Magnum R/T
                2000 Jeep Wrangler
                1988 Cadillac Brougham
                1966 Dodge Monaco 500 383
                1965 Pontiac Tempest 326

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                • jode
                  JB Welder
                  • Apr 08, 2002
                  • 6376

                  #9
                  Sorry - I hijacked my own post with the whole block thing....I am still interested in finding out what the deal is...if anybody can explain the whole thing to me (if these springs actually are a lift for early wags), I would appreciate it.
                  TIA
                  No FSJs for the time being - "I'm working on it, I'm working on it" (think Mike Meyers' SNL skit about the gut)

                  Comment

                  • Elliott
                    Cowboy Up
                    • Jun 22, 2002
                    • 12704

                    #10
                    Originally posted by jode:
                    Sorry - I hijacked my own post with the whole block thing....I am still interested in finding out what the deal is...if anybody can explain the whole thing to me (if these springs actually are a lift for early wags), I would appreciate it.
                    TIA
                    IIRC, the wagon front springs came in 44" & 47"... neither were post mount in the front.
                    The early JTrucks do use the post mount front springs and they were also 44" (post mount) or 47" (spring under frame).
                    At the back of the Rancho catalog you can check the part # you have for the early wagon and it gives you all the specs for that spring. The RS 24043 should fit the '66-'73 wagon front and give ~3" of lift.
                    Hope that helps.
                    *** I am collecting pics and info on any factory Jeep Dually trucks from the J-Series at the new Jeep Dually Registry.
                    ***I can set you up with hydroboost for your brakes: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=106056

                    Comment

                    • jode
                      JB Welder
                      • Apr 08, 2002
                      • 6376

                      #11
                      Elliott - awesome info.

                      So there is a lift for early wags (besides Bjs)
                      Crazy - it's just that I had always been told that nobody made lifts for those early FSJs...now it is starting to look like the wags are supported from 63 on and that it is only the trucks that you cant get a lift for until 76.

                      Thanks for getting out the specs Elliott
                      No FSJs for the time being - "I'm working on it, I'm working on it" (think Mike Meyers' SNL skit about the gut)

                      Comment

                      • Tad
                        • Nov 30, 2001
                        • 17618

                        #12
                        Yep, those numbers check out the same here.
                        Interesting is that on the older 44" springs the center pin ia at 22" forward from the rear eye.
                        On the newer 47" springs the center pin is at 23" forward from the rear eye.

                        This is something Kenall brought up in a post I had about a year ago that I didn't understand then.
                        Guess I'm going to knock the rear hangers off and relocate them so I can use the newer springs.
                        2000 Infinity QX4, 3.3L, MPFI, 4 speed auto, 2 speed Nissan tcase, Unibody, IFS front, 4 link rear solid axle with 255-70/16s

                        IFSJA WMS PROJECT
                        EARLY WAG LIFT SEARCH

                        ...Pay no attention to these heathen barbarians with their cutting torches and 8" lift kits!...
                        Self Inflicted Flesh Wound

                        Comment

                        • Kaiserjeeps
                          360 AMC
                          • Oct 02, 2002
                          • 2791

                          #13
                          I ran the rancho 24043 springs for about 500 miles before I parked it for a ground up. SAVE YOUR MONEY!!! They ride like a pogo stick and are complete junk. I only got maybe 2.5 inches of lift and the ride quality sucked so bad it actually made me angry I spent that much money for them. I've driven 4x4's all my driving life and I do know what a lifted rig should ride like. When the cosmetics are done (lots of really shiney chrome and stainless!!!) I plan on a BJ's lift. So in a nutshell, the rancho springs really suck big time. Save you're money and buy something that works....
                          Melford1972 says...
                          I’d say I feel sorry for you, but I really don’t, Mr. “I-stumble-into-X-models-the-way-most-people-stumble-into-Toyota-Carollas.” 🤣
                          -----------------------
                          I make wag parts
                          1969 CJ-5 41 years owned
                          1969 1414X Wag in avocado mist
                          1970 1414X Wag in avocado mist
                          1968 M715 restomod
                          2001 Dodge 3500
                          2002 Toyota Tundra
                          2006 Toyota 4runner was Liz's, parked



                          Building a m715 over at the m715zone
                          Beloved wife Elizabeth Ann Temple Murdered by covid on Oct 19th 2021
                          Keep a small violin, There is always a worse story than your own

                          Comment

                          • billyrb
                            BJ's Off-Road
                            • Aug 15, 2001
                            • 10032

                            #14
                            Ok,maybe I can shed some light. 1974-1975 rigs were shackle mount in the front, post mount in the rear. 1976-1991 rigs were shackle mount all around. 1963-1973 were post mount all the way around. Rancho 44044's are sold for the fronts of the older rigs. Most folks use them for SERIOUS off-road rigs. They allow much more droop than other springs, including ours. But, the on-road qualities is, as I understand, not as good as normal springs. I can't attest to the longevity of their height.

                            Blocks: bad idea. I know many folks will disagree with this opinion, but they aren't the best option. They are an inexpensive way to have a lift, but compromise your suspension. When you have major flex, articulation, or a "surprise" load, they can fail. This is NOT to say that they WILL fail, but many people each year experience failure (ie: your spring & vehicle weight shift, the block works free or breaks). If you can afford a lift with blocks, you should SERIOUSLY consider being patient for a little while longer and buying a full spring kit. You and your rig are worth the small price difference (look at it over the coarse of a few months, and the amount isn't all that big).

                            I also know that lots of folks are fully capable of forming their own opinions, and will still go the block route. That is a personal choice. When people call or email me, I express my thoughts, and sometimes even lose a sale. I'm okay with that.
                            BJ's Off-Road
                            [email protected]
                            Your source for '63-'91 FSJ Parts

                            Comment

                            • Tad
                              • Nov 30, 2001
                              • 17618

                              #15
                              Originally posted by billyrb:
                              ...1963-1973 were post mount all the way around...
                              NO
                              Wags and cheros are all shackle mounted up front, only the Jtrucks have front post mounts in the early years.
                              You got you numbers backwards too.


                              [ February 14, 2004, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: tadsal ]
                              2000 Infinity QX4, 3.3L, MPFI, 4 speed auto, 2 speed Nissan tcase, Unibody, IFS front, 4 link rear solid axle with 255-70/16s

                              IFSJA WMS PROJECT
                              EARLY WAG LIFT SEARCH

                              ...Pay no attention to these heathen barbarians with their cutting torches and 8" lift kits!...
                              Self Inflicted Flesh Wound

                              Comment

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