Going Diesel Need Opinions

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  • addicted
    Big Meanie
    • Dec 11, 2004
    • 4876

    #16
    Originally posted by krek
    Not to hijack the thread, but what is a good diesel for a 2wd application where mpg and QUIET are the priorities?
    Probably a Mercedes or Isuzu
    Originally posted by Ristow
    i bet it was Simon....
    he's such big meanie that way...
    please don't tell him i said that....

    Comment

    • thechier86
      327 Rambler
      • Mar 16, 2009
      • 649

      #17
      Originally posted by addicted
      Probably a Mercedes or Isuzu
      x2.
      buckle up, i wanna try somethin...

      Comment

      • bigun
        • Feb 10, 2003
        • 20092

        #18
        Originally posted by iroc86
        I guess I'll be the first one to vote for "Other/Foreign."

        I'm not much for hardware made outside of the United States, but I've been smitten by the Isuzu 4BD-series engines. It's powerful, quiet, and doesn't shake your brain apart like a Cummins. They can be a little tricky to bolt up to a transmission, but if you find the correct adapter, it's pretty easy. One company makes an Isuzu-to-Chevy adapter, and there are a few industrial Isuzu-to-SAE adapters floating around.

        The 4BD1T engines did not have a computer. Late-model 4BD2T engines used a very simple controller to operate the glow plugs and the transmission, but you can ditch that entirely. They always had mechanical injection pumps.

        Check out the link in my signature -- I'm swapping a 4BD2T into my '95 YJ and doing a lot of suspension work in the process. It's far from complete, but I'm getting there. The engine is bolted to an SM465/NP205 combo using an industrial Isuzu-to-Chevy cast adapter. I also machined my own adapter, but came across the casting and couldn't pass it up.

        These engines were used in Izuzu NPR and certain GM box trucks. I bought my '94 GMC W4 tilt-cab truck for $2000 on Craigslist, drove it five hours home, and pulled the motor for my swap. They're relatively inexpensive if you can buy the whole truck.

        Take a look at the Isuzu 4BD1T/2T section over at 4btswaps.com. There's a lot of interesting stuff going on there, including a few people running compound turbos and really pushing these little four-cylinders to the limit. They're every bit as strong and reliable as a Cummins, in my opinion.

        JeepinPete had a 4BD1T in his Cherokee, but I believe he abandoned the project. Maybe he'll chime in.
        am still waiting on you to finish your build
        charlie
        KB0HXA
        "Crom" 76/75 Cherokee/J20 Hybred,

        Originally posted by Gambler68
        congrats...that's the first post on here I have absolutely no effing clue how to comment on.
        How you behave toward cats here below determines your status in Heaven.
        Robert A. Heinlein
        The birth of CROM is recorded here
        http://www.alaska4x4network.com/showthread.php?t=7778

        Comment

        • iroc86
          258 I6
          • Oct 24, 2003
          • 268

          #19
          Originally posted by bigun
          am still waiting on you to finish your build
          Yeah, I guess I've been slacking a bit. Gotta prep a classic car for a big show next month, but after that it should be smooth sailing.

          Comment

          • KyooMac
            258 I6
            • Oct 26, 2006
            • 464

            #20
            Isn't the 4L80E a GM transmission that requires a tcm? And the 4L80E mates to the GM 6.5 liter perfectly, no adapter. So wouldn't the 6.5 non turbo be the best option for less headaches?

            Comment

            • COLOFIREMAN
              Gone,But not Forgotten.
              • Apr 09, 2005
              • 2567

              #21
              Originally posted by KyooMac
              Isn't the 4L80E a GM transmission that requires a tcm? And the 4L80E mates to the GM 6.5 liter perfectly, no adapter. So wouldn't the 6.5 non turbo be the best option for less headaches?

              Yes but with the lack of power, predestination to melt piston heads, injection pump problems, the cost to just rebuild, poor MPG for the end result, and this is just to list a few.

              For the initial cost of finding a good running GM, one could find a 6BT non after-coooled version and gain tons. As far as using the tranny, all you have to do is get a motor plate off of the back of a P30 chassis that had a 4BT in it. This will have a TH475, HD version of the TH400, and presto you can bolt it up with nothing custom.


              I still vote for the 4BT for these main but not only reasons......weight (4BT)875lbs verses (6BT)1250lbs, MPG, and overall size, which aids in the ease of installing one. <<---- Of course this from one that still has not completed theirs after 2 years......
              Last edited by COLOFIREMAN; 08-01-2009, 08:51 AM.
              Jason in the Mountains
              1978 J10 LB,OE 4-speed,4:10's,4BBl,and just 85K(daily driver)
              1988 Grand Waggy 8" lift 35" A/T's (under construction)
              1984 CJ7 12" lift 39" Iroks 1 tons
              1979 Cherokee Super Chief (under construction )
              1974 J-10 LB Buick 455 BB 4" lift 33" BFG tires
              1973 J-4800 LB plow truck 7" lift 255/85/16 LT Truxs MT's

              Comment

              • babywag
                out of order
                • Jun 08, 2005
                • 10284

                #22
                6bt is cheapest, can pick up a good donor for ~2k with high mileage.

                4bt adapters are frickin' expensive!! Maybe they're cheap/easy to come by in your area, but they want $600+ for an adapter flexplate set-up around here.
                Cheapest I've seen a running 4bt donor in this part of the woods is $3k
                I searched forever, and never found anything I considered buying.

                Found my 6.5/4L80E/NV242 from an H1 Hummer with 88k on the clock.
                My cost was just under $1k, and it came with all accessories, wiring & TCM.
                PO paid $30k for a Duramax upgrade, wish I had that kind of $$$

                I would personally love to install a 4BT, they just get too much money for them around here IMHO.
                Tony
                88 GW, 67 J3000, 07 Magnum SRT8

                Comment

                • KyooMac
                  258 I6
                  • Oct 26, 2006
                  • 464

                  #23
                  Doesn't the 6BT weigh a lot more than the 6.5?

                  Comment

                  • mattmopar440
                    AMC 4 OH! 1
                    • May 17, 2007
                    • 4092

                    #24
                    -AMC V8 540
                    -Chevy 6.5L Diesel V8 644
                    -Cummins "12-Valve" 745
                    I beleive these are Block weight only
                    87' Grand Wagoneer
                    401/727/229, Currently:RUNNING
                    84 J10/20 hybrid 258/727/208 Daily Driver
                    80' J10 4BT/AX-15/208
                    74' J10 Go Grabber Green Sold
                    Originally posted by Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81
                    Inferior Chevy

                    Comment

                    • Eugene 1
                      304 AMC
                      • Feb 04, 2006
                      • 1783

                      #25
                      1100-1300 lbs dressed!
                      JEEP
                      2005 Ram 1500 HemI

                      Comment

                      • COLOFIREMAN
                        Gone,But not Forgotten.
                        • Apr 09, 2005
                        • 2567

                        #26
                        Originally posted by babywag
                        6bt is cheapest, can pick up a good donor for ~2k with high mileage.

                        4bt adapters are frickin' expensive!! Maybe they're cheap/easy to come by in your area, but they want $600+ for an adapter flexplate set-up around here.
                        Cheapest I've seen a running 4bt donor in this part of the woods is $3k
                        I searched forever, and never found anything I considered buying.

                        Found my 6.5/4L80E/NV242 from an H1 Hummer with 88k on the clock.
                        My cost was just under $1k, and it came with all accessories, wiring & TCM.
                        PO paid $30k for a Duramax upgrade, wish I had that kind of $$$

                        I would personally love to install a 4BT, they just get too much money for them around here IMHO.
                        I agree, a 6.5 non turbo can be had for around you found one for but with all the problems that came from the 6.2 that I had to work on in the Army, makes it just like eating lemons to me..

                        For the money and the peace of mind, I sell the 4L80E, go with a 6BT non after-cooled, and a Dodge tranny.
                        Last edited by COLOFIREMAN; 08-01-2009, 05:09 PM.
                        Jason in the Mountains
                        1978 J10 LB,OE 4-speed,4:10's,4BBl,and just 85K(daily driver)
                        1988 Grand Waggy 8" lift 35" A/T's (under construction)
                        1984 CJ7 12" lift 39" Iroks 1 tons
                        1979 Cherokee Super Chief (under construction )
                        1974 J-10 LB Buick 455 BB 4" lift 33" BFG tires
                        1973 J-4800 LB plow truck 7" lift 255/85/16 LT Truxs MT's

                        Comment

                        • jMedia
                          350 Buick
                          • May 27, 2009
                          • 846

                          #27
                          I don't know about anyone else but polls like this make me even more indecisive then when i first started
                          Joshua
                          1988 Grand Wagoneer "Elwood"(thanks krek)
                          Constantly changing, never done

                          Comment

                          • PlasticBoob
                            All Makes Combined
                            • Jun 30, 2003
                            • 4007

                            #28
                            I didn't read every post, but I think some people here didn't see the OP's requirements. Normally I'd suggest a Cummins 4 or 6BT, but based on what he stated, I voted GM diesel, specifically the 6.5L - spend some time on the Hummer forums and you'll see it's not nearly as bad as the 6.2.
                            Rob
                            1974 Cherokee S, fuel injected 401, Trans-am Red, Aussie locker 'out back'
                            Click for video

                            Comment

                            • jMedia
                              350 Buick
                              • May 27, 2009
                              • 846

                              #29
                              Originally posted by PlasticBoob
                              I didn't read every post, but I think some people here didn't see the OP's requirements. Normally I'd suggest a Cummins 4 or 6BT, but based on what he stated, I voted GM diesel, specifically the 6.5L - spend some time on the Hummer forums and you'll see it's not nearly as bad as the 6.2.
                              Seeing as how wagoneerlover isn't around right now, may I ask why you'd pick the 6.5L over a 4bt based on his requirements?
                              Joshua
                              1988 Grand Wagoneer "Elwood"(thanks krek)
                              Constantly changing, never done

                              Comment

                              • JeepinPete
                                304 AMC
                                • Dec 09, 2003
                                • 2190

                                #30
                                I was swapping an Isuzu 4BD in my Cherokee. Unfortunately I ran out of time, money, and desire, in no particular order.

                                To me an Isuzu 4BD and a Cummins 4BT are interchangable as far as power, economy, and durability are concerned. The Isuzu 4BD series were installed in the NPR box trucks, GVW up to 15k lbs or so. So they have plenty of power to move around a FSJ. My choice between the two would come done to which I found for a good price.

                                If you are going to do this swap in a '79 or earlier FSJ, the Isuzu would be a cleaner swap. The exhaust and starter are opposite of the front driveshaft. You will have use hydraboost. '80 and later, the Cummins would be the cleaner swap for the same reasons.

                                Wagoneerlover, I've got the complete drivetrain waiting to go in someone's FSJ
                                Pete

                                '55 Willys Wagon, the original FSJ
                                Sitting on a '77 Cherokee frame, Dodge D60's
                                Isuzu 6BD1, NV4500, NP241

                                Comment

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