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-   -   York compressor failure.. Brand freaking new unit! (http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=184110)

SJTD 12-28-2017 10:05 AM

I have read in forums on the web that the new systems don't have sight glasses because a 134a system will still have bubbles when properly charged.

Being the cynical fellow that I am I wonder if they were eliminated to keep people from maintaining the level on a system with a slow leak.

I guess I'll find out if I ever get my Wag running with a Vintage Air system. The drier has a sight glass and I intend to keep the stock one on the fender. VA's instructions say to charge it with humptyump pounds.

A do wonder about this since they have no idea what it's going into and how long the lines will be.

FSJunkie 12-29-2017 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJTD
I have read in forums on the web that the new systems don't have sight glasses because a 134a system will still have bubbles when properly charged.

That's weird based on my experience. I've converted all my systems to R134a and the only time they have bubbles in the sight glass was if they were low on charge or had air in the system from either not being evacuated correctly or if the charge hoses were not purged of air before being connected.

SJTD 12-29-2017 10:29 AM

Didn't make sense to me either. One of the fucfuncfunctions of the receiver/drier is an accumulator that should be partially full of liquid. The pickup is at the bottom so there is liquid leaving it.

Only thing I could come up with was maaaaaybe the density of the gas was so close to that of the liquid that it didn't separate well. Never got around to looking into that possibility yet.

ProTouring442 12-31-2017 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJTD
I have read in forums on the web that the new systems don't have sight glasses because a 134a system will still have bubbles when properly charged.

Being the cynical fellow that I am I wonder if they were eliminated to keep people from maintaining the level on a system with a slow leak.

I guess I'll find out if I ever get my Wag running with a Vintage Air system. The drier has a sight glass and I intend to keep the stock one on the fender. VA's instructions say to charge it with humptyump pounds.

A do wonder about this since they have no idea what it's going into and how long the lines will be.


It's actually true. My wife's 300ZX has a sight glass, and with the system properly evacuated and refilled to 70% of what it held with R12 (or whatever it actually is, I forget), there are still bubbles. It has to do with 134A rate of expansion when heated, if I recall correctly. In any case, top the system off to a clear sight glass and it will over pressure and blow the relief valve.

And, of course, it isn't actually air, it's refrigerant in its gaseous state.

As to the Vintage Air instructions, you'll have to play around with the charge until you get it just right, but their estimate will be very close.

Beach_Dude 06-10-2019 11:19 PM

So, I really don't know how many times I've rebuilt this damn system. It's just ridiculous.

This time I went to a highly reputable AC shop that builds custom ac setups for classics, etc. He told me that I should just rebuild it all again, new condenser and driyer since he believed it was clogged.

After everything was back together, vacuumed it, let it sit over night and sealed. When taking it in, he verified vacuum, ran again then charged. He found a minor leak in the compressor, but said it might take a year or two till 8 notice it.

He did mention that the compressor was weak since the suction side was showing 40 psi.

All in all, $240 of r12 and $200 in labor, I accept it.

But then he was showing me a few things under the hood and I asked if the frost formung on the suction service valve is/was acceptable. He quickly rushed to the temp switch and turned it down half way saying that I shouldn't go lower than that since it would cause flowback of freon.

Ok, I got it.

A day later the system starts acting intermittently AGAIN!!!! FML!!!!

So, the only thing I'm coming up with is that every expansion valve I've bought and used is from the same retailer. Same brand, etc. I have the bulb/coil crimped on the low side of the evaporator and taped off with insulation tape.

I've got the feeling that the expansion valves are not only allowing too much freaon to flow through, higher PSI on suction but also that the freezing service valve is a sign that liquid freon is slowly killing my compressors.

Intermittent flow shows a complete shut off of the valve, the freon liquid sits in the sight glass, no flow, etc.

Murray from O'Riellys. I know.. I know. 4 seasons is better, carid is better, blah blah blah... They're all made in the same plant.

I've got the feeling that these are all junk.

Also, when the system is cycling normally, I notice that the freon flows a little backward in the sight glass. Can this be a sign that the compressor's valves aren't prevently backflow during cycle?

Does anyone have ANY IDEAS?!?!?!

I've spent way too much time 9n this and I've concluded that I'm just going to buy a tank and recovery machine since I've spent three times that already with ac shops.

Help!!!!

FSJunkie 06-11-2019 02:36 AM

The expansion valve is flowing far too much refrigerant. It thinks the evaporator outlet line is hot so it's metering lots of refrigerant into the evaporator. This often happens when the thermal sensing bulb of the expansion valve is not properly installed. It needs to be fastened tightly directly to the metal outlet tube of the evaporator and wrapped with insulation. The expansion valve itself must be mounted to the inlet of the evaporator and refrigerant must flow through it in the proper direction.

Otherwise it's a bad expansion valve, which is very rare. There is no such thing as an R12 or an R134a expansion valve. They work the same and are calibrated the same. Most of my cars are running their original 40+ year old expansion valves that still work fine. If your current expansion valve is installed correctly and continues to malfunction, get another one or get your original one back on.

In any case, it's going to rapidly explode your compressor if you keep running it like this.

Remember how I told you about exploding my own compressor? It was because the thermal bulb had come disconnected from the suction line. The expansion valve locked itself fully open in response.

The whole, "R12 systems converted to R134a require only 80% charge of R134a" thing stands for C.C.O.T. systems, AKA orifice tube. This is not that kind of system. Expansion valve systems don't care much about their charge level so long as there is enough liquid refrigerant inside the receiver/dryer to keep the pickup tube sumberged.

babywag 06-11-2019 08:31 AM

Sadly likely due to the crap parts they sell us.
When I redid mine a defective new expansion valve killed my compressor.
$200+ in more parts and my labor and it worked until the brand new compressor took a dump.
Exchanged it for a replacement and it worked flawlessly for over a decade.

Sorry not much help but just because the stuff is new means little these days.
Same deal on my Caprice, brand new compressor crap right out if box. Had to replace it 2nd time. Brand new ACDelco condenser had wrong line size and the orifice tube wouldn't fit. Returned for made in China that fit horribly but got job done @ least.

New parts are a roll of the dice these days:mad:

Beach_Dude 06-11-2019 08:44 AM

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...Q3eVZZR2pkZktR

The bulb is connection to the suction side of the evaperator, which should be closing the expansion valve is freezing is detected, but seems it isn't.

Also, is there supposed to be backflow of refrigerant when the AC cycle is off?

Beach_Dude 06-12-2019 05:56 PM

Well, I'm doing another compressor and expansion valve.

Going with 4 Seasons on the Expansion valve since I can't seem to find a motorcraft it ac delco cross match part unless someone knows the original manuafacturer?

Unfortunately I'm still gonna use the Murray compressor since I can get it warrantied out.

I ordered a RobinAir RG3: https://www.amazon.com/Robinair-RG3-.../dp/B00NMOYPVG

Also got a tank for $75.

All in all costing about $500 after tax. Basically, I've spend a small fortune on ac shops just for recovery and charging.

Spoke to a commercial HVAC buddy and he mentioned that I can simply switch the lines around and charge, opposite of recovery.

I'm going to connect it all up after switch, open all the valves, then run a vacuum on the whole system from the opposite port. I can use the second service valve to then close the vacuum then charge the system.

Chime in anyone... I'm rebuilding for like the fifth time next week.

Good to go?

bkilby 06-13-2019 07:54 AM

Wow. You sure have had a lot of problems with your AC. Kinda scares me as I'm getting ready to install AC in mine. Lol.


I can't help much on charging your AC but I know a thing or two about York compressors. Question for you. Is the York standing up or laying down? If laying down, is the suction port on top? The compressors come both ways, just making sure you're putting the correct one in.

Beach_Dude 06-13-2019 08:07 AM

Suction's going the right way.

As for the top, I believe it's the top port, but I'd have to look to see.

FSJunkie 06-14-2019 01:42 AM

Does your expansion valve have two capillary tubes coming off it? One is a temperature sensing tube and the other is a pressure sensing tube. Both connect to the evaporator outlet line. The temperature tube just clamps to the outlet line but the pressure tube actually connects to it with an SAE flare fitting. Not all expansion valves have the pressure sensing tube, but the ones that have it require it to be hooked up.

Beach_Dude 06-15-2019 05:47 PM

Yes, it's the factory air setup, so there's both on mine.

Wouldn't there be some massive leak that would empty the system in a matter of seconds or wouldn't even accept a charge if a hose wasn't connected? LOL

FSJunkie 06-16-2019 11:42 PM

Not if it was plugged off and bypassed, which is a seriously common theme on old cars. "I don't understand this, so I'm going to bypass it."

Not that you'd do that, of course. I make no accusation towards you. I just run the bases of things possibly done to your vehicle over the years by people other than yourself.

Beach_Dude 06-19-2019 04:29 AM

Holy :o:o:o:oing hell!!!! I just woke up and just realised what it might be.

One simple item that is not in a single document, post or anything, that has ever been brought up is the equalization flared fitting.

So, the equalization line is designed to open up the expansion valve on the suction side if pressure is too low, allowing additional freon. Makes sense...

All modern evaporator cores come with a shrader valve built in them, probably for universal systems, regardless of being model specific and that some models that use this coil might not have an equalization tube.

If a valve is installed on the suction side of the evap coil, once a low pressure or vacuum has accumulated, it will always detect a vacuum and excessively open the expansion valve, right?!?!

OMG, did I just figure this out?!?!

Remove the God damn valve from the suction line of the evaporator coil?

SJTD 06-19-2019 08:55 AM

Got pichers of what you're referring to?

Seems I've read of a shrader valve installed on evaporators that's supposed to be removed. I seem to remember it was there so they could pump it up with nitrogen for shipping/storage and it had to be removed or it wouldn't funcfuncfunction.

Beach_Dude 06-19-2019 10:19 PM


Before


After

SJTD 06-19-2019 10:39 PM

Demit. I can't see the pichers. Nothing there but space. I'll have to bypass the firewall in the morning or maybe use my phone.

Where are you hosting them? I gotta talk to my son about if he can allow some exceptions. I do see the pic in your first post.

Cranky uses cubeupload.com and I can't see his.

bkilby 06-20-2019 07:11 AM

I couldn't see them at first either. I had to right click and "reload" to see them.

Beach_Dude 06-20-2019 09:46 AM





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