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-   -   the 401 (http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=44467)

GRUNT 11-30-2003 12:42 AM

I know that the 401 is a sought after engine for jeeps. My daily driver is a 75 J-20. If I were to install a 401 would it still be a daily driver? How does the gas miles differ from a 360? I get about 14 mpg with my 360 what would the 401 be? Anyone out there have a 401 for a daily driver? Any info would be appreciated.

Crazy_Jeepman 11-30-2003 01:03 AM

the differances are minimal if at all noticeable as far as MPG. Not so sure the performance is all that noticeable over the 360 either if both are stock.

Elliott 11-30-2003 01:24 AM

Mileage is about the same. I've had a worn out 401 that would stomp a reman 360.

stepsidedan 11-30-2003 01:29 AM

401's the best, believe me... i got one in my CJ7 with all edelbrock; man ... that thing is a bomb.... i can compete with the big ones out here; like the Jaguars or even the bigger Mercedes's... nice, and unexpected... if you've got one available, just do it...

Crazy_Jeepman 11-30-2003 01:30 AM

LOL the HP and Torque specs do not show that big of a spread. I have had several 401's and they are strong, but what I like the best about them is that they sell better tnan any other AMC motor. ;) I would not advise someone that they are going to see a differance of night and day between a 401 and a 360. Hardly think that is the case at all.

jeepsr4ever 11-30-2003 02:37 AM

depepnding on what your 360 has in it you may see a HUGE performance increase.

I can build a 360 mean but i really prefer the 401 and i never see over 10ml per gallon...but i can pull wheelies with my 401 cj

Crazy_Jeepman 11-30-2003 02:45 AM

I had a CJ with a 304 that would pull wheelies, put a 360 in it and that was also rather HYPERACTIVE. I think the question would be, a stock 360 VS stock 401. Lets see now 41 Cubes more, same heads, cam, and carburation = Neck breaking, earth shattering torque? :rolleyes: LMAO UH HUH :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

GRUNT 11-30-2003 03:57 AM

My 360 is a crate motor. not even 10 mpg? that is depressing. I'm sure the power is nice though. Wouldn't be a practical daily driver if this is the case.

joe 11-30-2003 04:24 AM

FWIW The 401(all came w/4v's) is rated at 20 HP more than a 4v carbed 360. Torque rating is 25 ft-lb higher at 100 RPM lower.

PlasticBoob 11-30-2003 07:41 AM

The difference between a 4v 401 and a 2v 360 is like night and day.

Elliott 11-30-2003 07:58 AM

I don't care much about what the ratings say and being a smog era the 401 was produced in AMC may have had reason to rate the 401 lower, don't know, don't really care either 'cause I know what I feel when I drive 'em. ;)
The flogged 401 I ran in my '75 Cherokee Chief had an Offy manifold and 4bbl and it would stomp the '81 Cherokee Laredo with the reman 360 Edelbrock manifold and same 4bbl carb. Same size tires, 31x10.50 only other variable is the auto tranny. I've had other 360s, they have markedly less power, in fact you'd hardly know them from a Chevy. :D

Crazy_Jeepman 11-30-2003 10:30 AM

Still though 41 Cubes differance.....even at a Horse a Cube. :rolleyes: If the 401 was rated being overly conservative then why not the 360 of the same year? At any rate, .085 larger bore and .24 in stroke does not equate to big power gains in my book, since everything else is the same on these motors in the stock form, there is no secret power elsewhere. Seat of the pants horse power and actual real horse power sometimes are two very different things, and hard to tell apart. To be safe I am going 140 cubes over the 360 so I do not get fooled. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

jeepsr4ever 11-30-2003 11:46 AM

well when you look at a 401's internals vs othe rAMC V8's or chebby's the 401 is a real BAD A## setup but who is talking stock numbers here not too many stock 401's left

Crazy_Jeepman 11-30-2003 11:56 AM

OH Granted the 401 has a forged crank and rods........ anything else? :confused: That makes it Kill a 360 in tearing down the street performance? [img]tongue.gif[/img] Sorry I do not buy it. :rolleyes:

Elliott 11-30-2003 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crazy_Jeepman:
OH Granted the 401 has a forged crank and rods........ anything else? :confused: That makes it Kill a 360 in tearing down the street performance? [img]tongue.gif[/img] Sorry I do not buy it. :rolleyes:
I'm not reading where anybody is saying the difference is "killing a 360 in tearing down the street performance". It's probably closer to the difference between a stock 401 and a Buick 455.
With my flogged 401, when I nailed that 4bbl it got on it a whole lot harder then my reman 360 with the equivilent intake set up. I'm not talking 3 seconds off a 1/4 mile, I'm just saying my well worn 401 would beat "stomp" a new 360.... that shouldn't be such big news really, considering how much better a 401 will wear over extended mileage.
Maybe you want to attribute that more to the TH400? It probably has something do with it.

Bobbo 11-30-2003 12:36 PM

Well, I have no idea what these things were rated for at the factory, but my 401 cherokee (stock) kills my bored and 4 barrel 360 wagoneer, so if you ask me use a 401 if you have one! My dad had a built 360 in a cherokee that was bad ass when I was a kid. It was fun when I first got my licence. Of course I wrecked it! Dang kids!

Crazy_Jeepman 11-30-2003 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elliott:
I've had a worn out 401 that would stomp a reman 360 = that shouldn't be such big news really, considering how much better a 401 will wear over extended mileage.
Maybe you want to attribute that more to the TH400? It probably has something do with it.

How in the heck did I miss these facts? Instead of buying or rebuilding 360's we all should replace em with wore out 401's. The TH400 I really did miss that! Dam Thanks for getting this sorted out for me!! ;)

Elliott 11-30-2003 12:42 PM

I honestly don't know why you would rebuild a 360 at standard, I've only had the one.... docile comes to mind.

Elliott 11-30-2003 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bobbo:
Well, I have no idea what these things were rated for at the factory, but my 401 cherokee (stock) kills my bored and 4 barrel 360 wagoneer, so if you ask me use a 401 if you have one!
Can I get a witness ;)

jeepsr4ever 11-30-2003 02:41 PM

Are you guys SERIOUSLY doubting the power of a 401 without owning one?

mark j 11-30-2003 07:49 PM

The 360 in my '72 has 10k on the rebuild- it has MSD 6A, Summit cam, 10.5 comp pistons ( I asked for 9.5 ?@#$!%%)- otw all stock. The 401 in my '76 is all stock with 140K. I'd give the edge to the 401 between the two- not a huge difference, but definately noticeable.

jeepsr4ever 12-01-2003 02:43 AM

Mark thats unreal!!

Retro93 12-01-2003 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jeepsr4ever:
Mark thats unreal!!
:confused:

jeepsr4ever 12-01-2003 04:13 AM

LOL I meant yeah thats about right!

but 10.5's to one and cammed, whoa thats a decent 360

GRUNT 12-01-2003 05:30 AM

Well I guess I hit some nerves. I guess I'm keeping my 401! My crate 360 in my J-20 is fine. I guess I'll put the 401 in my wife's 88 mint wag! I'll make the woody a sleeper! The 360 in hers is gonna let go one of these days!

Elliott 12-01-2003 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mark jones:
The 360 in my '72 has 10k on the rebuild- it has MSD 6A, Summit cam, 10.5 comp pistons ( I asked for 9.5 ?@#$!%%)- otw all stock. The 401 in my '76 is all stock with 140K. I'd give the edge to the 401 between the two- not a huge difference, but definately noticeable.
Thank you mark.

Elliott 12-01-2003 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BIGBEARJ20:
Well I guess I hit some nerves. I guess I'm keeping my 401! My crate 360 in my J-20 is fine. I guess I'll put the 401 in my wife's 88 mint wag! I'll make the woody a sleeper! The 360 in hers is gonna let go one of these days!
It happens every time 401 comes up, not your fault. People try to trust the specs and trip all the time, probably more often with Jeeps. I didn't know that 401s came with 2bbl in CA, almost no one knew that the pickup could be had with dual front shocks, many didn't know the dually one ton existed and most didn't think a Kaiser Thriftside came with both the short and long wheelbase. I don't think the specs are correct on the 360/401... for what ever reason and if you look at the specs on the car versions of the 360/401 in the same time period you see a different set of numbers that can't all be explained by cam/manifold and dual exhaust variances.
Over here you can read a little more on the history and check specs at the bottom... you see a police 401 making 315hp (net) with the same compression ratio and the IH 401 crankin 225hp with a 2bbl so why should the Jeep 401 with a 4bbl come in at 215? I doubt it's all cam.:
http://home.att.net/~farna/amtech/engines.html#V-8

1971, 330 hp @ 5000 rpm, 430 ft/lb @ 3400 rpm, 4V, 9.5:1 (gross figure)

1972-75, 255 hp @ 4600 rpm, 335 ft/lb @ 3200 rpm, 4V, 8.5:1 police only in 1975
(THESE TWO ARE PROBABLY REVERSED)
1972-75, 315 hp @ 3100 rpm, 280 ft/lb @ 1500 rpm, 2V, 8.5:1 w/dual exhaust, police only in 1975

1973-74, 225 hp @ 4600 rpm, 330 ft/lb @ 2600 rpm, 2V, 8.5:1 International Pickup and Travelall only, rpm and torque estimated

[ December 01, 2003, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: Elliott ]

jeepsr4ever 12-01-2003 03:44 PM

exaclty, we had a t-code 401 that grossed 500hp

fulsizjeep 12-02-2003 04:38 AM

Quote:

jeepsr4ever: Are you guys SERIOUSLY doubting the power of a 401 without owning one?

I love that statement! We have 2 401 powered rigs and they have much more grunt than any 360 I have had.

One is built to .030 over and RV cam with about 40K on it in a 76 Cherokee. It will go fast enough to shake the body (mucho rust) and that is scarey. Gets about 10mpg. This motor is going in Wally.

Krista's 77 Wag has original 73K on it with a lifter tick and 3.07 gears and gets 15-16 mpg on the highway. It will flat walk away from my 88GW with 225K 360 and 3.73 gears getting 10 mpg. I should be stabbing that other 401 in Wally this winter... YEAH

[ December 02, 2003, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: Flint ]

243 12-02-2003 05:07 AM

OK, I haven't driven a Waggie with a 360 but my 79 with 2.73's and a 401 limping along on 7 cylinders felt strong, stronger than the stock 350 4bbl in my 81 C10 with 3.08's.

IMO, 10hp by the seat of the pants is hard to discern, 20hp is noticeable. Torque on the other hand, is noticeable :D

If power alone was what I wanted, I would have kept the 401 instead of the "planned" SBC 350 swap.

jeepsr4ever 12-02-2003 09:33 AM

401 [img]smile.gif[/img]

ColeTrickle 12-02-2003 10:50 AM

:rolleyes:

klank 12-02-2003 11:08 AM

Quote:

401
I agree. 401. When I bought my 87 and drove it home from up north in Washington I totally noticed the difference between it's 360 and my 401 in the 89.

Now if I were only able to drive the 87 with the 401 swapped into it. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Elliott 12-02-2003 12:59 PM

Klank, what can we do to help?

KivaKid 12-02-2003 01:13 PM

My stock '76 360/4V Wag has a good bit more *oomph* than my dad's stock '77 401/4V Wag. Mileage is not severely different, and they are the same gearing. Mine does have bigger 31" tires, which should slow it down just a bit off the line, right? I think there are so many variables involved in each individual FSJ from back then until now, that it's really hard to tell. Depends on the previous drivers, the care, etc. All these can have their effects.....

jeepsr4ever 12-02-2003 01:47 PM

Come on now

Elliott 12-03-2003 02:14 PM

http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/ultimatebb....c;f=3;t=018444

imported_horsepuller 12-03-2003 03:05 PM

But doesn't the above link sort of attest to the point that KivaKid is sort of making: Both the 360 and 401 can be built to be impressive engines. And yes, all things being equal, the 40

imported_horsepuller 12-03-2003 03:08 PM

. . . the 401 is a better engine. Not much debate about that. Given a choice between a 401 and a 360, who wouldn't want a 401? But I'd take a built 360 over a stock 401, too.

Bobbo 12-03-2003 03:24 PM

401 401 401 401 401 401 401 401 401 !!!!!!!!!!! I was gonna swap in a BBC, but after tuning up my 401 in the cherokee I bought for 175.00 NO WAY! 401 all the way! I can't wait to build it. Any motor can be built, but all things equal, the 401 trumps the 360 ANY day.


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