Ignition,charging,electrical nightmares...Help Me...Please

[Michael]

I am ready to throw in the towel.....gurrrrr

Okay yesterday I was having charging problems...or what I thought were charging problems. It was running fine last night except when I turned the lights on it would only charge about 8 volts. Went out this morning and my battery was dead again. Tried to jump start her and nothing....
So I went ahead and put a new alternator on tonight. Still nothing.

So it must be ignition...related huh???? I am getting juice to the coil. I am getting spark from the coil, but that is as far as I got. I do know there is no spark from the dist. to the engine. No fire on #1 wire. Yet fire on the coil. I am at a loss. Also something is draining my battery. Could the ign module do this????????????

Any help is greatly appreciated. redface.gif :(

[JeepFreak]

Which rig is having the trouble?

Also did you have the alternator tested to make sure it was indeed bad? Have you had the battery tested to make sure it doesn't have a dead cell?

[ April 02, 2002: Message edited by: JeepFreak ]</p>

[reddog]

Possibly the ignition box but other culprets come to mind. You have juice to the coil and spark from the coil, but spark when? When you turn it over via the key then you have spark from the coil or are you manually making the coil fire? If the coil fires manually but not when turning the engine over via the key then the ignition box OR the trigger is suspect assuming that the distributor rotor and cap are ok. BUT the problem is that does not explain the low voltage.

Going out on a shadetree limb here my first suspect would be the ignition switch. A bad ignition switch has the potential to explain both (all three) problems. You can try swapping in a known good ignition box (a spare in not a bad idea anyway) but if it ran fine last night except the low charge then it is possible that voltage is not being suppling to the alternator thus causing the low charge, short causing the battery to drain, short causing it not to start with good battery. A bad ignition switch has the potential to cause all of these things. JMHO

Kerry

BTW Hang in there - you have one sharp Wag. Let the joys of ownership triumph over the "dark side" of its curring PITA status. This too shall pass...

[reddog]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by JeepFreak:
Which rig is having the trouble?

Also did you have the alternator tested to make sure it was indeed bad? Have you had the battery tested to make sure it doesn't have a dead cell?

[ April 02, 2002: Message edited by: JeepFreak ]<hr></blockquote>

OH YA!! The basics first. Good battery and connections... Just my bad habit of over complicating things sometimes...

Kerry

[jeepbob]

First off an ign system will not cause your problem unless the ign switch is on or bad. I would check your fan belt to the alt first, if you can turn the fan on the alt without turning the motor then the belt is your culprit. Also have the battery load tested as it may just have given up the ghost. If these are good then try turning the key switch back a little by hand and see if the alt kicks in.

[Michael]

It is my '87 Jeepfreak.

When I am trying to turn it over it just turns. I hooked up a timing light to see if the coil was hitting and it is. I then put the timing light on #1 and then nothing. I am not getting spark past the distributor.

One thing tha is funny or weird about the ignitionn switch. When I am a turning the engine over and then stop. When I turn the key back to the off position the engine kicks back....like it is getting a jolt of energy. I do not know if it means anything but maybe.

The battery is not being drained anymore. The battery tested fine. And the alt was not. So the charging problem should be fixed but cannot tell for sure until I get this thing started.

The belts are in top shape. Cannot turn them at all.

I will probably replace all the battery cables,ground cables and go from there. But there must be something else I am missing. Could be as simple as the battery cables. But I am still at a loss. I will check the power to the dist tonight and to the ign module also.

I took apart the wiring harness to make sure no wires were melted together. They all checked out fine.

The funny thing is this all happened after I pulled the exhaust manifold off the passenger side.....that is weird to me.

Thanks for all the help guys. I am sure I will need a lot more help with this!!!!!!!!

[JeepFreak]

Sounds 100% like an ignition switch. Here is an example of what my bad ignition switch does. When I get it started and get to cruising down the road all of the sudden it will shut itself off. No juice at all. Get pulled of to the side of the road and she will fire back up. Sometimes I can crank it and it won't start then when I let off the key she will fire. So maybe it could be a worn ignition switch or the key switch itself not making good contact.

Now I might add that I am one lazy dude so my switch is sitting in the front seat yet to be installed!

[ April 03, 2002: Message edited by: JeepFreak ]</p>

[Michael]

I have not pulled mine but I do not understand why that would be. How does the wiring work???? The engine will always turn over or does the wiring run two diffrent directions, meaning power to the coil and then power to the dist seperately??? Hopefully I am making some sense... :confused: ;)

[JeepFreak]

The starter circuit is separate from the ignition circuit.

[derf]

I have some spare battery cables I can bring over. I'm going to take the afternoon off so I can run some errands and getting the wag inspected. Give me a call and let me know when you want me to drop by and help.

[Michael]

Okay that is true. So when you say the starting circuit....what are you describing. What would that include. Would that control juice to the distributor????

[Michael]

Derf I am single father for the rest of the week. My wife is off playing executive....
So if you want I would love the help. I will not be home until 6:30 I have to pick my son up. And then I will have to keep him busy while we play on it.....That is if you do not mind.

[JeepFreak]

Ok the only thing that will make the starter circuit fail would be the neutral safety switch and the starter solenoid. It is a separate circuit from the ignition circuit. So you say that you have voltage to the coil then from the coil to the dizzy but once it hits the dizzy it goes no where correct? Ok then that would mean that you would need to get out the trusty multi meter and test the sensor assembly to be sure it is not defective. If you have the Chilton manual it is described on page 2-19. If you don't have it let me know and I will write down the procedure for you and email it to you. If the control unit doesn't get a signal from the ignition switch though it can not power the sensor assembly so the trigger wheel never gets to give a reference point for where the rotor is located.

[Michael]

Gothcha...now that makes sense.

I do not have the Chiltons...could you email me the instructions. That would be great.

Michael.Hayes@perigonmed.com...

Thanks again Rick....

[JeepFreak]

Sure thing bud. Should have them in five.

[JeepFreak]

I figured I would post this incase someone later has same problem.


As described in the Chilton's manual.

Control Unit And Sensor Test

1. With the ignition ON, remove the coil high tension wire from the distributor cap and hold ½ in. from ground with insulated pliers. Disconnect the 4 wire connector at the control unit. If a spark occurs (normal), go to Step 2. If not go to Step 5.

2. Connect an ohmmeter to D2 and D3. If the resistance is 400-800 ohms (normal), go to Step 6. If not go to Step 3.

3. Disconnect and reconnect the 3-wire connector at the distributor. If the reading is now 400-800 ohms, go to Step 6. If not, disconnect the 3-wire connector and go to Step 4.

4. Connect the ohmmeter across B2 and B3. If 300-800 ohms, repair the harness between the 3-wire and 4-wire connectors. If not, replace the sensor.

5. Connect the ohmmeter between D1 and the battery negative terminal. If the reading is 0 (0.002 or less), go to Step 2. If above 0.002 ohms, there is a bad ground in the cable or at the distributor. Repair the ground and retest.

6. Connect a multitester across D2 and D3. Crank the engine. If the needle fluctuates, the system is okay. If not, either the trigger wheel is defective, or the distributor is not turning. Repair or replace as required.

[Michael]

Thanks Rick...I will check it out.

[BOONIERAT]

Michael,
Odie was doing the same thing. I used a jump wire from the + side of the solinoid to the first terminal on top of same. started right up. Pulled the wires out of the chaffing tape and found the big yellow wire had broken. Used a electrical conector, put it back together and it has worked every since.
I really don't know why it was broken, but if you were working on the pass side of the engine and moved the harrness around you might check the wires in the harrness.

[Michael]

Thanks boon. I allready inspected the harness, It checks out good as gold. I will check it again though on Saturday when I have some light. I must have wiggled something loose, I did not have any problems prior to pulling the manifold.
Thanks again :D