The proper use of "SJ"

[KaiserMan]

Isn't this designation correct only for the Chrysler made FSJ's? As in it's something Mopar came up with after they bought Jeep?

I've never seen a full size (J-Series) Jeep referred to as an SJ in any AMC (certainly not Kaiser-Willy's/Kaiser) brochures.

Just wondering 'cause it seems to be becoming a generic term for any FSJ around here. I know I've NEVER owned any SJ's.....

Not aimed at anyone that currenly has SJ in their thread title...your thread just reminded me I've been meaning to ask this question Janie:)

[gwinn]

You may be correct about the "proper" use of SJ. With AMC gone, Kaiser no longer involved with Jeep and Chysler having washed it's hands of the FSJ, the authority on our rigs today is the IFSJA. The readers and posters on the ifsja forums have allowed "SJ" to become a general term for our FSJ's. If you go to wikipedia and search "Jeep SJ" you'll see that it brings you to a page that refers to all "FSJ's" as "SJ's"...."According to the International Full Size Jeep Association".

[gunnerwoody]

When I researched the VIN 0n my 82 waggy, it stated SJ from Toledo. I believe it was, as you said, a generic designation.

SJ - The full-size Cherokee ('74-'83), Wagoneer ('63-'83), Grand Wagoneer ('84-'91), and J-truck ('63-'87). In 1984, Jeep introduced the down-sized XJ and started calling them Cherokees and Wagoneers, leaving only the Grand Wagoneer in the SJ lineup until its demise in '91.

Kind of like the MK.

MK - The Patriot is a compact, 4-door, crossover SUV introduced in 2007. It's bigger than the Compass, the Compass is a compact, 4-door, crossover SUV introduced in 2007. It's smaller than the Patriot, but slightly larger than the Liberty.

OK time for it...:banghead:

[KaiserMan]

It's always bugged me. It's just more incorrect information floating around on the web. People all ready have to many misconceptions about FSJ's.

Still, when did they stop being J-Series and become SJ's?
Late AMC, early Chrysler?

[KaiserMan]

You may be correct about the "proper" use of SJ. With AMC gone, Kaiser no longer involved with Jeep and Chysler having washed it's hands of the FSJ, the authority on our rigs today is the IFSJA. The readers and posters on the ifsja forums have allowed "SJ" to become a general term for our FSJ's. If you go to wikipedia and search "Jeep SJ" you'll see that it brings you to a page that refers to all "FSJ's" as "SJ's"...."According to the International Full Size Jeep Association".

We may be a collective authority on FSJ's, but we can't just decide that all FSJ's are part of the "Senior Jeep" series just because most people here call them that.

Wikipedia has so much wrong info on it that it's a joke.

I would not beleive half of what is posted on there. I started wrting a bit for the FSJ section coving all models up through 73, but it was turning into a 10 plus pager...

[BURT]

I wonder about that also, the super (S) was a wide track cherokee model 17 , as I think of it when they refer to fsj it would mean Full Size Jeep as not a camanche, or a cj? so SJ is super jeep?

[ricbee]

The Cherokee 's' is NOT always a model 17 or wide track,I have a'77 narrow track with the 's' on it,and I parted a 4 door cherokee(I think it was a'78)that had the 's' on it.I believe the 's' orginally stood for'sport'

[Lindel]

Wikipedia (the dictionary of misinformation) might think that "SJ" means "FSJ", but use a real search engine and it doesn't even get a hit.

That said, I think there are a few members that either worked for, or had parents/family that worked for AMC at the Toledo plant that might be able to answer that question.

A peek into some of the owners or shop manuals might shed some light also.

Failing to find out from them, then Chrysler would be the next step, considering they own all the rights to Jeep, at least till someone buys them up...

[KaiserMan]

I wonder about that also, the super (S) was a wide track cherokee model 17 , as I think of it when they refer to fsj it would mean Full Size Jeep as not a camanche, or a cj? so SJ is super jeep?

The "S" in the Cherokee "S" package stands for Special, not super.

SJ stands for Senior Jeep, I have always heard it anyway.

Also, when did Wagoneers stop being part of the J100 series? After AMC took over?

[Tornado230]

J-series are the trucks, J-10,20,200,300,2000,3000,4000.
Wagoneers are models 1314 and 1414.
Cherokees and Wagoneers are models 15, 16, 17, and 18.
No mention of full size. This came about when downsized models introduced in 1984.
SJ, YJ, TJ, came about after Chrysler acquisition.
No mention of FSJ in the TSM.

[TexTJ209]

To add a bit of confusion to the mix..

Every pre-2000 Jeep I've ever seen had the two letter designation on the taillights really small. My TJ said TJ, YJs said YJ, CJs say CJ, XJs say XJ, etc.

My J10 had AJ. :confused:

[KaiserMan]

To add a bit of confusion to the mix..

Every pre-2000 Jeep I've ever seen had the two letter designation on the taillights really small. My TJ said TJ, YJs said YJ, CJs say CJ, XJs say XJ, etc.

My J10 had AJ. :confused:

That's weird. Makes me want to go look at my taillamp lenses.

[KaiserMan]

J-series are the trucks

Wagoneers and Panel Delivery are also part of the J-Series, under the name J100.

[suzq044]

MK - The Patriot is a compact, 4-door, crossover SUV introduced in 2007. It's bigger than the Compass, the Compass is a compact, 4-door, crossover SUV introduced in 2007. It's smaller than the Patriot, but slightly larger than the Liberty.

OK time for it...:banghead:
Not quite right there. The only true difference between the Compass, Patriot and Caliber is ride-height and body-design; which determined how much space they had inside; Patriot, being the most up-right design had the largest interior space, followed by Compass, then Caliber. Otherwise, they're all essentially the same vehicle. The Compass is in no way-shape-or-form, larger than the Liberty - that's for sure. Check the Jeep website for proof of that.

Commander>GrandCherokee>Liberty>MK [which is all 3 of them]

On-subject:
I have a co-worker that used to be a technician for AMC back when there were like 5 local dealerships here. I could ask him if you like?

[frank_c]

i sent my dad an email. i'll let you know what he says.

[beloth]

The Cherokee 's' is NOT always a model 17 or wide track,I have a'77 narrow track with the 's' on it,and I parted a 4 door cherokee(I think it was a'78)that had the 's' on it.I believe the 's' orginally stood for'sport'

my old title on my 66 jeep wagoneer said sport wagon for the model

sport jeep wagon....SJ wagon ?

[mudjammer]

mY 77 j10 said PU for the model and my 88 GW said SW for the model. I thought those stood for pick-up and station wagon. As far as the tail lights, I look at mine and the J10 says AJ and the wagon says S.

[incommando]

Wikipedia is a total joke. And ALLpar has misinformation in it as well.

The "common knowledge" about the term SJ that I have always heard was that it began with the downsized cherokee ( XJ) to give the full-sized line a two letter model designation in line with the other products. But I have never seen anything official about it.

The Liberty is bigger in every dimension than an XJ, let alone the Caliber, er, patriot. They also weigh over 4,000 3's. Porkers. :D

[gwinn]

This is not a thread regarding the inaccuracy of Wikipedia. I'm certain that the SJ designation came along when Chrysler took over the line. All I'm saying is that when referring to our Jeeps, I have no problem with the SJ being used for all years and manufacturers. It's just a reference for discussion etc purposes and not an official/legal term.

[mudjammer]

I talked to a freind of mine who used to work for AMC back in the 70's about the terms FSJ and SJ. He told me when he worked for them here was neither term. I personally use the term FSJ because anybody I have ever Talked to knows the FSJ term, but looks at me really funny if I say SJ.

[fulsizjeep]

I dunno...
For so many years I thought FSJ was for Fuel Sucking Jeep...

[janie]

I personally use the term FSJ because anybody I have ever Talked to knows the FSJ term, but looks at me really funny if I say SJ.


Ain't that the truth? Although if I mention it's a fluid pukin money pit, someone will say "oh you must own a fullsize jeep"

[BURT]

Model # 25 = J-10 shortbed 119"
Model # 45 = J-10 longbed 131"
Model # 46 = J-20 longbed 131"
In 1979 I bought my first FSJ ,1977 Model 17 Cherokee Cheif S , the dealerships in that era refered to it as Super as did the service & parts people , almost all model 17 ( widetrack 2 door Cherokee) came with S , It was refered to as Super Cheif. before the cherokee name came into being some top end wagoneers sported the S (Super Wagoneer) , I have seen lots of S badges on Ebay & on jeeps that people have put on themselfs.
Hence FSJ = Full Size Jeep , this is jeep slang as far as I know but gets the point across. this stuff is from memory so if its wrong dont shoot me Im old
SJ should mean Senior Jeep , but that would incompass all old jeeps including cj & the like. they used to call my old cheif "Super Size Jeep" when wheeling with the cj's. loa , but that was along time ago. I have no use for sj as I only have trucks. did the GW (grand wagoneer) come into play when cherokee was gone (thank Chysler)

[frank_c]

dad says "they were always called SJ from 1962 to the end in 1991" and that SJ was Senior Jeep. there were model numbers like 1400, 1500 but he can't remember those.

[incommando]

Why would they be called Senior Jeep when the line just started?

[deadironrat]

Probably for the same reason we call other Jeep models "baby Jeeps". The size difference kind of makes ours seem like they should be the dad or senior Jeep.

[KaiserMan]

No offense to your father, but SJ NEVER appers in any Willy's or Kasier lit. It's always J-Series. In adds, service manual, parts manuals etc.

Is there any factory paperwork (as in facts) that show when SJ came into use? AFAIK Senior refers to size, not age so it would only refer to J-Series vehicles.

It would make sense that either AMC (later years) or Chrylser (what I have always heard) coined it to seperate the full size jeeps from the downsized XJ's. As the XJ used a several names formerly used on J-Series vehicles (Cherokee, Cherokee Chief, Wagoneer, Wagoneer Limited, Pioneer).

[Kali]

paged through all my 82 literature and cant find SJ anywhere. Nor FSJ.

[tgreese]

Yes, it seems to me that "SJ" and "FSJ" are a modern invention - during the AMC era, no such designation existed.

[frank_c]

i dunno. i asked about the plant, not about literature.

here's the email i sent him:

were the full size Jeeps ever referred to as SJ body codes at the plant?

and the reply:

yes always senior jeeps

and then i asked:

and was that before Chrysler bought AMC or after?

reply:

they were always called sj from 1962 to the end in 1991
they each had a model no like 1400 1500 can't remember models

so maybe at the plant and not for literature and dealership stuff?


No offense to your father, but SJ NEVER appers in any Willy's or Kasier lit. It's always J-Series. In adds, service manual, parts manuals etc.

Is there any factory paperwork (as in facts) that show when SJ came into use? AFAIK Senior refers to size, not age so it would only refer to J-Series vehicles.

It would make sense that either AMC (later years) or Chrylser (what I have always heard) coined it to seperate the full size jeeps from the downsized XJ's. As the XJ used a several names formerly used on J-Series vehicles (Cherokee, Cherokee Chief, Wagoneer, Wagoneer Limited, Pioneer).

[frank_c]

in "Jeep" by Jim Allen, there's a caption to a pic on page 116 that says "In 1974 the two door SJ returned as the Cherokee..." but i didn't see any reference to it as an SJ before that.

same book, page 122..."The SJ Cherokee line made its debut in 1974 as a variation of the big Jeep theme and a lower cost alternative to the increasingly full-boat Wagoneer." there's also an XJ pic with the caption "When the XJ Cherokee made its debut, the SJ Cherokee died."

the book's glossary has SJ as "the Wagoneer SUV or Gladiator (J-Series) pickup, a.k.a. the "Senior" line, or as "Big Jeeps." no mention of when SJ was first used.

i also found a 1981 Service Specifications book but it doesn't have them listed as SJ's, it does have the model numbers.

[cincyjeeprs]

SJ is the body style - Cherokees and Wagoneers
J-Series are the trucks.

Simple, huh?

I have no idea when those became official Jeep nomenclature. I have a 1990 FSM that covers the whole line, but by then that had only the SJ, XJ and YJ.
(and yes, those are the official body designations. Chrysler obviously.) I think they dropped the truck line because they couldn't think of a two-letter designation for them. LOL.

FSJ is something we all made up. It has never been an official Jeep or Chrysler designation. (That's my belief, FWIW).

When the XJ came out things got confusing, and everyone, including the parts catalogs started calling them "Full Size" cherokees and wagoneers, in contrast to the "Compact" cherokees and wagoneers.

Nobody uses these designations except us rabid cognicenti. They don't show up in any marketing materials. Just FSMs and Parts Lists. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

One more question: the Compact Cherokee came out in 1984. Was it called an XJ then, or not until 1987?

[710 Burner]

http://www.ifsja.org/tech/figures/jeepcode.html
So we are disputing the information that has been posted in the tech library longer than I have been a member here, correct?

[cincyjeeprs]

http://www.ifsja.org/tech/figures/jeepcode.html
So we are disputing the information that has been posted in the tech library longer than I have been a member here, correct?
Correct:thumbsup:

[skeletor]

i talked to a guy that worked for willys/ jeep back in the late 50s and he said that they referred to the utility wagons and trucks as the senior line.

[PlasticBoob]

For those of you who talk crap on Wikipedia: if you come across something that is incorrect, get off of your lazy butt and FIX IT! That's the whole point of the site, we don't all know everything. :rolleyes:

[KaiserMan]

http://www.ifsja.org/tech/figures/jeepcode.html
So we are disputing the information that has been posted in the tech library longer than I have been a member here, correct?

Yep. The tech library isn't 100% correct.

So it sounds like Chrysler renamed the J-series vehicles SJ, and people just started using it to the point that it has become a false fact that all J-Series vehicles where designated as the SJ series from the factory?

SJ is the body style - Cherokees and Wagoneers
J-Series are the trucks.

Simple, huh?


No because at least during the Willy/Kaiser years Wagoneers and Panel Deliveries where apart of the J-Series line up. They where designated the J100 models, as the trucks where J200 and J300 (when they first debuted). This is fact and is referenced in all of the early TSM's, tech bulletens and pretty much anything made of paper that was not a published add. They contined to use J100 after the trucks became the J2000 and J3000/J4000 series. I guess nice the Wagoneers/Deliveries never got a badge saying Jxxx (unlike the Gladiators) Jeep never bothered to update the extra 0 along with the trucks.

I haven't seen any mention of J100 after 1973, so AMC may have dropped that designation. But SJ never appears anywhere until Chrylser, so I doubt they became the SJ series after 1973. Well, the Wagoneer anyway. The Deliverys last year was what, 68?

[ob1jeeper]

Do not mean to add fuel to the fire, but thought I'd share my personal recollections and experiences...

I do not doubt that published literature on which much of the discussed research is primarily based, has rarely or perhaps NEVER used or picked up on the daily jargon used in the plants and engineering offices. I suspect it instead relys upon, and refers to vehicle nomenclature used in published sales literature.

That said... There is absolutely NO question that the gent whose father worked in the plant is 100% correct, in stating that SJ was used to designate the various variants of the Wagons & Trucks as "Senior Jeep".

During the 70's, when I worked with and around the folks in the plant & engineering offices (from the old timers who were there during the war days, right up to recent hires...), I soon learned that if I were to understand which model any conversation or activity involved, I would need to understand that all the folks with whom I came into contact, referred to the Wagons & Trucks as the "Senior Series", and referred to the smaller Jeeps (the CJ and all it's variants, including the C-101 & 104 "Commandos") as either a "Utility" or "Junior Series".

PS: The dealer parts manuals published in the 70's, also list the Wagon's & Cherokees (prior to the XJ), as well as all J-series trucks, as SJ's...

Have some accessory manuals from the 50's & 60's in storage that I'll have to go dig out some day, to see what they show...;)

[KaiserMan]

PS: The dealer parts manuals published in the 70's, also list the Wagon's & Cherokees (prior to the XJ), as well as all J-series trucks, as SJ's...

Now that is interesting. Any chance of a scan of that and a date on the manuals?

[mdill]

Hate to burst your bubble, but most all Cherokee's came with the "S" package, as it was the one trim level above the base stripper version.
The only "Super" Cherokees that iI am aware of were a dealer invention from one dealer, that took new top of the line Wagoneer's added J-truck fenders and WT Cherokee axles, winch, and rear flairs. Only seen a few poor pictures of one, never seen one turn up on the board.

Most of the time I my Jeep's get refered to as that F***ing Jeep, therefore since it seems no one can agree, on FSJ, SJ .... I would vote that we call them FJ's but Toyota got there first :(


Mike D.



Model # 25 = J-10 shortbed 119"
Model # 45 = J-10 longbed 131"
Model # 46 = J-20 longbed 131"
In 1979 I bought my first FSJ ,1977 Model 17 Cherokee Cheif S , the dealerships in that era refered to it as Super as did the service & parts people , almost all model 17 ( widetrack 2 door Cherokee) came with S , It was refered to as Super Cheif. before the cherokee name came into being some top end wagoneers sported the S (Super Wagoneer) , I have seen lots of S badges on Ebay & on jeeps that people have put on themselfs.
Hence FSJ = Full Size Jeep , this is jeep slang as far as I know but gets the point across. this stuff is from memory so if its wrong dont shoot me Im old
SJ should mean Senior Jeep , but that would incompass all old jeeps including cj & the like. they used to call my old cheif "Super Size Jeep" when wheeling with the cj's. loa , but that was along time ago. I have no use for sj as I only have trucks. did the GW (grand wagoneer) come into play when cherokee was gone (thank Chysler)

[skeletor]

I would vote that we call them FJ's but Toyota got there first

well technically jeep did when they created the fleetvan, its designation was fj. but no one cares about those....:D

[KaiserMan]

well technically jeep did when they created the fleetvan, its designation was fj. but no one cares about those....:D

I'd daily drive a second version Fleet Van if I had one. Think wall to wall shag..oh yeah!

[ob1jeeper]

Now that is interesting. Any chance of a scan of that and a date on the manuals?
Most of the paper manuals I have are boxed up and in storage while I'm having drywall & paint re-work done, but will try to remember to dig them out when the job is finished...

I do have the '74-'77 Dealer paper manual here (Issue Date April 1977), and it shows the following model designations on page Ge - 12 & Ge 13, of the General Information section. It does not reference "SJ" anywhere in a cursory scan.

Wagoneer - Cherokee (10) Series
1974
XX14 - Wagoneer Standard
XX15 - Wagoneer Custom
XX16 - Cherokee Standard
XX17 - Cherokee Custom

1975-1976
XX14 - Wagoneer (4-door station wagon)
XX15 - Wagoneer (Custom 4-door station wagon)
XX16 - Cherokee (2-door station wagon)
XX17 - Cherokee 'S' (Custom 2-door station wagon)

1977
7715 - Wagoneer (Custom 4-door station wagon)
7716 - Cherokee (2-door station wagon)
7717 - Cherokee 'S' (Custom 2-door station wagon)
7718 - Cherokee (4-door station wagon)


Truck (20) Series - 119" WB
1974
7425 - GVW "C", "W"
7426 - GVW "X" - Export Only

1975-1977
XX25 - J-10 (GVW "M")
XX26 - J20 (Export Only)

Truck (40) Series - 131" WB
1974
7445 - GVW "C", "W"
7446 - GVW "K", "M", "Z"

1975-1977
XX45 - J-10 (GVW "M")
XX46 - J20 (GVW "N", "R", "X")

Universal (80) Series (CJ5 - CJ6)
1974-1977
XX83 - 84WB (CJ5)
XX84 - 104WB (CJ6)

Universal (90) Series (CJ7)
1976-1977
XX93 - 94WB (CJ7)

XX - last two digits of year (74, 75, 76, 77)


Also, have an adobe file copy of the Jeep Dealer parts manual for '81-'86, that I use most of the time because it's handier... It references "SJ" for Wag, Chero & Truck on many of the illustration pages... Copyright date & source are unknown to me...

Hmmm... Tried loading it, but seem's it's too large to load here...:(

PM me you e-mail, and I'll drop you a copy...;)

[frank_c]

Also, have an adobe file copy of the Jeep Dealer parts manual for '81-'86, that I use most of the time because it's handier... It references "SJ" for Wag, Chero & Truck on many of the illustration pages... Copyright date & source are unknown to me...
i have the 1987 parts catalog and it didn't say SJ anywhere in it. it's the Mopar one, from January of '88.

and funny to see Universal, my mom still calls little Jeeps (including my Wrangler) Universals...

[shiner2001]

Dang. It seems as though we are really no closer to an agreement on what is "right."

Here's my opinion. Somewhere along the way, FSJ got started. Pretty simple, Full Size Jeep. Makes sense. I'll allow it.

It sounds like SJ was a "shop term" used in the factory and by engineers, but not necessarily in sales literature. I also think it was expanded retroactively when Chrysler started the XJ, YJ, ZJ, TJ naming convention. Which probably arose from CJ which actually meant "civilian Jeep" from what I have heard. After that, I think they probably just stuck with the "something-J" naming convention.

I just wanna know what to put on a decal, SJ or FSJ. I kind of like sticking with the 2 letter "something J" convention, even if it is retroactive from Chrysler's takeover (again, not counting the CJ, as at that point it was just one model, not a naming convention). Now that I write out "something J", maybe that's what SJ stands for, ha. What is a bit awkward is that all the CJ, YJ, XJ, etc's refer to a specific body. We, on the other hand, use both SJ and FSJ to refer to everything from trucks to two door Cherokees to four door GW's. Not a very model specific nomenclature.

Man, I think all I have done is confused myself even more. I'm sure I probably drug a few of you down with me though, so I don't feel alone in "I don't really know and I'm not sure if anyone else does either" land.

Carry on!

[frank_c]

i am not entirely convinced that the term/body code "XJ" was started by Chrysler.

[shiner2001]

i am not entirely convinced that the term/body code "XJ" was started by Chrysler.

I could be persuaded to agree with that. If it wasn't started by them, they certainly followed the path that it (and CJ) started.

[ob1jeeper]

i am not entirely convinced that the term/body code "XJ" was started by Chrysler.
The XJ, MJ series was in production, and coded as same long before the Chrysler takeover.

[KaiserMan]

The XJ, MJ series was in production, and coded as same long before the Chrysler takeover.

That is what I have always heard.

At least we are getting somewhere.

Looks like AMC *might* have coined the SJ designation.

Now I'd wondering though, are they AMC manuals, or period Mopar reprints/updated or something like that?

Doesn't seem that we will ever get a right answer. But a possible ocnclusion is:

The term SJ has been floating around since the J-series went into production (though not on paper or officially) and at some point around or shortly after the introduction of the XJ/MJ it became used as an official printed series name.

Sound right to you guys?

[ob1jeeper]

Anyone here know what an F-body GM car or an A-Body Chrysler vehicle are?

ALL manufacturers, including Jeep, use similar model or body code alpha, numeric, or alpha-numberic designations long before the marketing folks get around to tagging some catchy name of that body style.

Shoot, I remember as a little kid entering into a mail-in contest to name the new Econoline for Ford... BTW my entry did not win... and NO, I dcon't recall what I submitted... Just remember entering and that some other 4th or 5th grade kid won that honor...

In some cases, the coding is catchier than, or for whatever reasons, become mainstream and make it into our "car-nut" vocabularies, some do not... simple as that...:p

[frank_c]

The XJ, MJ series was in production, and coded as same long before the Chrysler takeover.

i've read the first-gen ZJ was already in development before Chrysler arrived. it was supposed to be the XJ's replacement.

[frank_c]

hate to bring up an old thread...but i was going through some stuff and found this book

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t296/fccdmc/cover2.jpg

and in the "AMC years" section, describing the introduction of Quadra-Trac in '73, it says "It was at this point that the J-series trucks and Wagoneer became known as the Jeep senior line. The CJ-series and Commandos were considered to be the "junior" line."

[joe]

J-series are the trucks, J-10,20,200,300,2000,3000,4000.
Wagoneers are models 1314 and 1414.
Cherokees and Wagoneers are models 15, 16, 17, and 18.
No mention of full size. This came about when downsized models introduced in 1984.
SJ, YJ, TJ, came about after Chrysler acquisition.
No mention of FSJ in the TSM.
The Kaiser era Wags were also under the J series group. J-100's.

[joe]

That is what I have always heard.


Now I'd wondering though, are they AMC manuals, or period Mopar reprints/updated or something like that?
That would be my guess. Later Chrysler reprint of the AMC books. I have most of the TSM's and PM's from 62 up and nowhere in any Kaiser or AMC publication have I run across "SJ" The latest AMC PM I have is also the 81-86 published May 87 by AMC. First i've seen the term SJ in print is the 88 TSM published by Chrysler. Same SJ reference up through into the 91 TSM.

[suzq044]

...

MK - The Patriot is a compact, 4-door, crossover SUV introduced in 2007. It's bigger than the Compass, the Compass is a compact, 4-door, crossover SUV introduced in 2007. It's smaller than the Patriot, but slightly larger than the Liberty.

OK time for it...:banghead:
It is not bigger than the Compass or Caliber, it's about the same size, the only dimension that is bigger is the rear end, because it's more square, versus the "aerodynamic treatment" of the Caliber and Compass. In fact, if you went to a dealership, you could go sit in all three, and you'll find out they are quite identical except for the roof shape. Even the ride-height is about the same between the three. Which are all on the MK platform.

It is not larger than the Liberty by any means; the Liberty and Nitro are the same vehicle, with different brand identities (ie, same platform). The Compass is a CUV (Compact Utility Vehicle). The Liberty is mid-sized and the Commander is a full-size by todays standards; however the JK Wrangler (4 door) seems to be the most similar, size-wise to the FSJ's here.

http://www.automedia.com/NewCarBuyersGuide2008/photos/2008/Dodge/Caliber/Wagon/2008_Dodge_Caliber_ext_1.jpg http://www.car.com/images/2007/Jeep/Compass_Staff/400/07_Jeep_Compass_25.jpg http://www.automedia.com/NewCarBuyersGuide2008/photos/2008/Jeep/Patriot/SUV/2008_Jeep_Patriot_ext_1.jpg http://www.automobilesreview.com/uploads/2009/03/2009-jeep-liberty-rocky-mountain-edition-jeep-grand-cherokee-rocky-mountain-edition-and-jeep-patriot-rocky-mountain-edition.jpg



I've probably posted this elsewhere on this thread. But I felt compelled to correct the error posted; with my boyfriend owning a Patriot.