Quick engine swap question

[pb]

I have a stock 75 wagoneer - 360, TH400, QT, Dana 44's. Am I correct that if I wanted to put in a SBC 350, I would need an adapter plate for the tranny? The botton of the tranny pan has a GM logo on it, but I read on here the bolt pattern is different? Is that all I would need? I'm thinking that I will either rebuild or change in the future.

[Lindel]

If you use the stock tranny, then yes, you'll need an adapter. An easier route would be to get a Chevy case for your tranny and have the innards swapped. That way you get to keep the necessary bits, and makes for an easier swap.

[Cecil14]

What Lindel said. If you're doing a motor swap might as well have the tranny rebuilt anyway. Get a SBC TH400 and use the parts needed for the Q/T in that one. That way you have an AMC/SBC hybrid TH400. :D

Anthony

[shag]

aggreed if you make the swap its best to have a rebuilt gm tranny enstead of adapting to the stock one but also I would just use a np 208 or np205 t-case too the year jeep you have is passenger drop so you could even just pull an entire drivetrain out of a rusted out cheb thats what I am trying to do is find one of the 4 door 1 ton chebs to pull motor tranny t case and axles all at once I want the 1 ton axles is why but you may be happy with what you have

[4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado]

A jeep turbo 400 is a BOP case. ( Buick, Olds, Pontiac ) You can get an adapter or you can get a Chevy Tranny Case.

[jeepguzzi]

Originally posted by 4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado:
A jeep turbo 400 is a BOP case. ( Buick, Olds, Pontiac ) You can get an adapter or you can get a Chevy Tranny Case.Sorry, but only the very early tranny behind the Buick engined models is the BOP pattern. All of the rest are AMC patterned TH400's.

[Bobbo]

This is always a touchy topic-LOL

[4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado]

Hey Guzzi, We are both right. I had a 72 or 73 waggo, that had an a factory adapter and a BOP case. But your right an latter 400's had AMC dedicated. It is possible PB could have either. Heres a link better explaining it.
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/th400.htm

[Rande]

Jeep NEVER used a BOPC pattern tranny. The tranny behind the Buick engines used an adapter also. That early T400 tranny had the old Buick "Nailhead" pattern. Nailhead being the nickname of the earlier Buick engines. Buick switched to the corporate mandated BOPC (Buick, Olds, Pontiac, Cadillac) pattern some time in the late 60s (probably '68).

Its wierd but Jeep had to use an adapter to fit a Buick tranny to a Buick engine. When AMC bought Jeep, they used up the remaining Buick engines and had to use an adapter for the AMC engines until all the old Nailhead trannies were used up and then had GM make the T400 with the AMC pattern.

You may find a pile of old trannies at a junkyard and can see the difference between BOPC and Chevy patterns. Maybe there would be an early Nailhead pattern one and maybe an AMC pattern one. Easy to see the differences that way. I'll try to get some good photos and post them in the tech archives for this. There has been lots of confusion about thses patterns. I certainly was confused at first but after several weeks of asking questions on many different forums, I found the answers.

[ November 14, 2003, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: Rande ]

[jeepguzzi]

Yeah, what Rande said!!!

[Rande]

Da*n I'm good! ;)

[4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado]

Guys, believe it or not I had a 72 waggo 360 with an adapter factory. It had a BOP case to a dana 20. When I pulled the tranny and took it to the shop to have it rebuilt. The trans shop told me I had the wrong tranny. I actually took the tranny guy to my house to show him I had a AMC 360.

All the 4x I've ever owned except for a Ford Ranger I had, and even after having that for a couple years I put the body on a 74 wago frame, 401,t400,dana 20.

Just when you think youve figured out FSJ's they throw you for a loop. I have learned over the years FSJ's are a grey area when it comes to who made what and what goes where. I just thooght PB may want to just make sur he really knows what he has, before moving onward. Thanks Guys, This is a cool site, with a lot of cool rigs.

[4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado]

oops gettin late for me....I meant to say All I have ever owned is FSJ's except a ford ranger.

[Rande]

Once again, that is NOT a BOP tranny. Thats the Nailhead tranny.

I had the same set-up in my '72 J4000. That's when I went in search of the truth about that odd-ball pattern.

The BOPC pattern has two large bumps on the top of the bellhousing, looks like cat's ears. Once you see it, you'll recognize it easily. The Nailhead pattern bellhousing is smooth and round.

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/files/Technical/bop.bmp

The tranny on the left has the Chevy pattern, the one on the right has the universal GM pattern the fits the BOPC engines and the Chevy engines. The universal has the BOPC pattern so you can see the two "cat's ears" I'm talking about.

[ November 14, 2003, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: Rande ]

[gsmikie]

i could of changed cases by now ,,,,get a chev case and transfer the guts from your trans into the chev ......i know a guy that has a video........

[Rick@battlement]

Something tells me this Rande can make the swap without the Video.

[Elliott]

Originally posted by 4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado:
[QB]Guys, believe it or not I had a 72 waggo 360 with an adapter factory. It had a BOP case to a dana 20. QB]Correct term, as Rande stated, is "Nailhead".
The Nailhead TH400 was used in vehicles other then Jeeps, like the Jaguar, with a 2" adaptor ring that allowed it to fit various engines. In the FSJ it was first used with the 327 which had it's own adaptor ring, then an adaptor ring was used to allow installation of the Buick 350 and later, up until AMC got their own pattern TH400s there was an adaptor ring to the AMC 360/401 pattern. '73 was probably a carry over year to use up the last of the Nailheads while bringing in the new TH400 AMC pattern trannies.
So, you can figure the range of use was probably between 1965 and early 1973 with the different adaptors being available for a different range of years depending on the engine used.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

http://www.crazy-jeepman.com/images/ADAPTERS.jpg