where do i find small joint 44 stubshafts?

[scotty]

im about to start building a hybrid axle for the front of me little cherokee using cj inner kuckles,so i can use cj 30 orpossibly 44 outer knuckles,rotors,etc.

im not real fond of the cj 5 on 5.5 pattern,nor the external lockouts. id rather make it 6 lug. prollem with using fjs 44 outers is attaching the stub to the inner axle since the fsj takes a 297x,the small jeep the 260x. i know i can get inner shafts from an abs rig that would use 297x joints,but i want to keep my disco axle,and i dont thik they use the disco in an abs rig. :mad:

now to the question,if i got the stub from an older 44 that used the 260x joint,how does this stub compare to the newer 44 stub,lenght and splinewise? would i be able to use it with the newer rotor/hub,or would i be stuck using the older hub with an external lockout that it would come with?

finally,anyone got clues what years would use the small joint?

i realize they make a lockout kit for the xj that uses the same small 5 lug pattern,but im not hip on that cause i a) dont want to spend $700, b) even if i was willing to spend it,i dont like how the spindle bolts on with only 3 bolts :eek: c) i dont like the goofy ford lockouts that the kit comes with d) seems like a fun project to cut off inner knuckles and make a custom axle,and e)i dont care bout the small 5 lug pattern. if i convert to 6 lug i can use a 44 or m20 frm a fsj in the rear :D

thanx in advace...

ur thots? smile.gif

[ January 02, 2003, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: scotty ]

[Stuka]

See...this is what happens when you ask questions scotty....you get some weird technical questions that everybody goes "uhhh..." about :D

As for what years used the little joint I am not sure. Never messed with baby jeeps much. But I will check around smile.gif

EDIT: What about older D44 front axles from J-trucks in the 60's and early 70's? Wasnt this the older style 5 lug D44 that was a 19 spline inner? (no clue what outer is) And maybe it used smaller joints as well??

[ September 20, 2002, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: Stuka ]

[Josh D]

D30 stub outers are 27 spline, same as D44, right? The only difference is the yoke and u-joint are bigger on the D44. Why can't you just use the D30 stub axles with the D44 outer knuckle?

[Josh D]

I just re-read your post. Now from what I understand is that you want to bolt a D44 style outer knuckle to a newer D30 unit bearing style housing? It can't be done, unless you remove and replace the inner knuckle with a D44 or CJ D30 style inner knuckle. Am I missing something here?

[Crazy_Jeepman]

I know I am confused :confused: :confused: LOL Happens a lot though :D

[Stuka]

yes...I think scottie needs to rephrase the question in the form of a question tongue.gif :D

[GruntDoc]

ummm ok let me see if i read it right...
yes you can use dana30 knuckles on 44 and vise versa (i think) cause you can put dana 30 knuckles on 44 (you do it to scout axels as the scout knuckles are not good)
they both use a 6 stud mount last time i checked
you "should" be able to mix and match from a bunch of makers to get the joint size and bolt pattern you need

[Josh D]

I think he wants to bolt D44/CJ D30 type knuckles onto a XJ/YJ/TJ style D30 housing (I think?). Its not a bolt up.

[scotty]

silly rascals. no,the d44 or cj d30 outers will ot bolt to the xj d30 inners. i will be grinding off the xj inner and replacing it with the cj inner,as this will let me run the d44 outer or cj d30 outer and related components. im pretty sure it will go together as planned,and i should definately be able to use the d30 outer,spindle,etc.,but i dont like the 5 on 5.5 pattern or the external lockout.

id like to use 6 lug d44 stuff,but,the newer internal mount d44 stub takes the 297x u joint. here is wherein the prollem lies. :eek: one option is of course,to see if 4wd hardware or somewhere offers beefed up inners that would take the 297x joint for the disco axle,but yall know me,i like to use factory parts whenever possible.

the d44 stub is 19 spline outer,the cj d30 is 27,so to keep with the factory part theme, i need a stub with the 260x u joint,19 sline outer,and the correct length to use the newer style d44 internal mount hub/rotor. im pretty sure a disco axle was never available withthe 297x joint,so using factory parts will require staying with the 260x inner axles.

6 lug wheels/internal lockouts may not be possible with factory parts. i may need to stay with 5 on 5.5,or i may need a cj "internal converison hub" or the beefed up inners with the 297x joint. well see how it goes,and what kind of factory stubs i can come up with. im open for sugestions smile.gif

so the questions are as follows:

a)what years/models do i look for the 260x in a d44? like stuka said,it will be late 60s,early 70s,maybe j trucks?

b)how will this stub compare to the newer 44 stub? my guess is that its gonna be shorter and different splines,being from a drum brake,external lockout,and possibly close knuckle.

sorry for the confusion. clear as mud now? smile.gif

[ September 21, 2002, 04:58 AM: Message edited by: scotty ]

[Panther]

Scotty,
I think I understand what you're getting at....
You have to take the yokes off a D44 and CJ D30 and put them on the tubes of your XJ axle right?
Personally I think the 260 joint is a weaker link than the 6 bolt hubs so I would try and get 297s in there. But maybe you can do both, can you get a D44 inner shaft shortened and resplined from 30 to 27? This would give you both the 297 joint and D44 outer.
Also, didnt some XJs or late YJs have some 297 joints?
If you get those inner shafts, again you can used whatever outers.
In case you need the 27 spline outer shaft and 297 joint, the scout outer shaft would work.
Lee

[scotty]

in a nutshell,yes. :D take the inner knuckles(yokes) from the cj 30 and put them on the xj 30s tubes. both use the same skinny tube,so thats why ill hafta use the cj piece rather than the d44 piece. the spacing,etc. is the same so i could use the d44 kuckle on the d30 inner. this lets me bolt on everyting from the 44,except the axlesahfts.

yes,the 260 joint is certainly weaker. however,keep in mind were talking d30 here ;) so there will be plenty of other week links(pinion,ring gear,the puny housing,small diff) a truss is planed for this hybrid axle,tho ill hafta live with the rest of it. also,this is my daily driver,ill only be wheeling it ocasionally,and then pretty mildy,so the strnegth issue of the 260 vs 297 isnt real a big deal to me. id rather use the smaller joint and use factory parts. for what i want to use it for,the 260x will suffice,and i can repalce stuff when it breaks for cheap if its a combo of factory stuff. custom inners cost lotsa $$ :eek: im pretty could get warn high stregth inners for round $200 pass side,$170 driver side,for my disco axle.

yes,the xj/yj with abs had 297x joints from the factory,but that brings us to the prollem that also prohibits the simple cutting down and resplining of 44 shafts: i want to keep my disconnect axle,and i sont think a disco axle ever had 297 joints. thats maybe not a bad option for the driver side,but the outer part of the 2 piece pass side is not really a part that can be cut down or made from someting else.

either way,i dont think its real smart to spend $400+ on custom shafts for a d30,as its still gonna be a d30 when im done smile.gif that much $$ would be better invested in a custom front 44 housing,or simply coverting the coils to leafs,and then just bolt in whatever i want up there

if i do it with factory stuff,i could do it pretty much for the cost of seals and the time it takes me(since ive got a complete cj 30 to use,as well as a couple of cpmplete spare xj d30s to cut up). if i have to have a custom inner to use the d44 stuff,it will prolly just stay 5 on 5.5 since the cj 30 stub should work fine with the xj 30 inners.parts are readily available for the 72-86 cj d30,so it can all be done cheap and without fear of breaking a custom shaft. that would suck.i dont dislike the 5 on 5.5 enuff that id spend a buncha $$ to get rid of it,its definately not that big a deal.

ok,maybe theres alittle more to it than simply wanting to use a 6 lug rear,or even the fact that i dont like the 5 o 5.5 pattern. theres an underlying reason id like to figure out how to make it work with the 44 internal hub/rotor: it is in the back of my mind that if i could use 6 lug 44 stuff,and got a hair up my @$$ someday and wanted to put a 60 in the rear(of my daily driver :rolleyes: sheesh whay cant i ever just leave stuff alone?)i could convert my front to an 8 lug,coil sprung d30 with factory 3/4 ton conversion parts. :D not the epitomy of strength,but would be an eye catcher,and kinda neet,none-the-less tongue.gif

ur thots? smile.gif

[ September 21, 2002, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: scotty ]

[Josh D]

Scotty,
My '95 4 banger YJ is non abs, and has D30 w/297X joints and disconnect. Yes, they do exist.

[scotty]

Originally posted by Josh D:
Scotty,
My '95 4 banger YJ is non abs, and has D30 w/297X joints and disconnect. Yes, they do exist.REALLY! :eek: sweet! thanx for the info,josh. sounds like i could get those inners and make it all work. i didnt think the disco axle ever got the big joints.

now all i gotta do is find some. where didja say you live,again? ;) tongue.gif you dont park your yj in a garage,right :D

[Josh D]

Well, if you come all the way from Ohio to Colorado to steal my axles, at least have the common curteousy to do a trail with me first before you start partin' out my trail rig!!

I bought my YJ new in April, '95, at a high volume Jeep dealer in Phoenix, so I imagine the build date to be Feb-March '95. The '95's were sold well into '96 before the TJ went on sale as a '97. So, the theory of only '95 1/2 YJ's with abs (six cyl only) with the big u-joint D30 doesn't hold up. Unless, of course, my Jeep is a freak of Jeep nature. So, look at ANY '95, 4 or 6, for the D30 with big joints.

[scotty]

josh,no prollem,id be happy to see some of your trails before stealing your big joint shafts "hey! look! is that elvis?!" tongue.gif id hafta get the procedure down alittle better,tho if im gonna do it quick. i swapped out my front axles over the weekend for some spares that id repalced the joints in,and getting the friggin hub assembly of there is a minor PITA.

thanx again for the info. i forget where id heard that only abs rigs came with the big joint. ive got my spare xj axle torn down,so ill be cutting off the knuckles soon and retrieveing the cj30 from storage.

is the whole shaft bigger,or just beefier ears for the bigger joint? ever had any prollems with yours? my xj friends really havent had much prollem with their front ends at all,other than bending housings.

ill hafta keep my eyeballs peeled for some those inners somewhere...

[ September 23, 2002, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: scotty ]

[Josh D]

I believe the shafts are the same dia. but with larger u-joint yokes, but the yokes themselves are beefy. I've ran a front locker, 4.56's, and 33" for about 6 years and done some very notorious trails in Moab, Arizona, and Colorado without a single failure. I have no plans to upgrade my front axle further. The only mod I'd consider (might do this after the original joints where out) is machine the yokes for full circle clips.

[scotty]

full circle clips are a worthwhile mod,IMO. the 1 axle u joint ive broken in the GW i am pretty sure let go cause the clip popped out,and the cap walked out. ive got full circle clips in both the GW and my little jeep,its easy to clearance the yokes,and i found clips at the local NAPA that fit both the 260 and 297 joints.

[Gary Holmes]

We did a small tack weld from the yoke to the u-joint cap on my new 760's in the Camo Cow This will keep the cap from backing out and I can just grind or file the weld to remove them when it is necessary.

[Bob Barry]

Scotty; just came across the following page:

http://www.rightcoastcrawler.com/billaVista/Hybrid_Axle/HybridAxle.htm

I don't know if that would be any help to you.

[scotty]

ya,thats pretty much what im doing. i cant use the d30 yokes(inner knuckles) due to my stubborness of wanting to keep my stock length inner axles. ive got some tubing to space out my 44 inner kuckles,but it doesnt fit the ID.need to get the inner knuckles opened up alittle to fit over the tubing. production has come to a halt till i can figure out a good way to do it,or get tired of waiting and take em to a machine shop. ;) that route will cost some $$ casue theyll have to build a fixture to hold them due to the odd shape.

thanx for the link,bob

[ November 22, 2002, 06:59 AM: Message edited by: scotty ]