i think the 10 bolt is stronger

[scotty]

im thinking of putting a 10 bolt under the front of my jeep,since a friend of mine has a 4.10 10 bolt gearset hell fix me up with,and more 10 bolt parts than you can shake a stick at.

couple other reasons to swap:
-10 bolt stuff is real easy to find. you can use car gears and some car carriers in the front 10 bolt,so there are plenty of used ones on Ebay and local sale papers. as i mentioned,my frined has several extra sets of shafts,a couple of 4.10 gearsets,and a 4.56 gearset.he is currently running a posi from a rear car 10 bolt in his frontend.
-the 20 bolt carrier break is at 3.08. everything numerically higher than that is on the high carrier.again,tis just adds to the simplicity of finding used parts. you dont often see the 4.10 and up 44 carrier and gears for cheap.
-will be an easy swap.i can use my same knuckles,spindles,hubs,etc. all ill hafta do is make spring mounts under the axle and get some tubing to make my tie rod and drag link alittle longer.
-10 bolt/14 bolt is the combo ill be swapping into my burb.will be cool for tow rig and trail rig to be able to share spare axleshafts tongue.gif
-hes got enuff stuff i can put together a 4.10 or 4.56 geared 10 bolt,and upgrade for next to nothing,since i currently have both of those gears in stock for my 14 bolt. :D

sooooooooo,i picked up one of the several 10 bolt housings that are laying around and brought it home to inspect the PITA factor of springing it under to install in my rig.

now i know that the 10 bolt and 44 are regarded as being comparable in strength. however the 10 bolt pinion is quite a bit bigger. i compared the pinion for a 3.54 44 gearset(13 teeth) and one for a 3.42 10 bolt gearset(12 teeth). the 10 bolt has a noticeably bigger shaft and bearings,and the gear part of the pinion is much bigger. the splined part for the yoke,as well as the threads for the nut are bigger as well. sorry i dont have actual numbers,all i have to measure with is a pretty inefficient tape measure

so i now conclude the 10 bolt is alittle stronger than a 44. at least as much stronger as an m20 is over a 44.

anyway,i figured it was about time for another heated debate,and to "stir the pot" just alittle ;)

anyone else looked at these pinions next to one another?

ur thots on the strength issue smile.gif

[ January 06, 2003, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: scotty ]

[Bob Barry]

Heck, run it!

You're just going to break it soon anyway, so it might as well be a cheap-to-replace 10-bolt. :D

[Stuka]

the gear part is going to be bigger for a higher gear set. The lower the gears the smaller the pinion gets. But at least with the front you dont need to worry about c-clips. I will NEVER run a c-clip axle in the back of any jeep I ever own.

[BigChief]

What you stated is correct that the 8.5 Gm 10blt is stronger than a d44 for the reason of biggwer ring gear and larger pinion shaft.. The supposed weak link on the 10blt is the knuckles from what I am told. But again parts are so plentyfull, Gm used the front axles from 76-91 1/2 and 3/4 tons.

[tuck]

Originally posted by BigChief:
What you stated is correct that the 8.5 Gm 10blt is stronger than a d44 for the reason of biggwer ring gear and larger pinion shaft.. The supposed weak link on the 10blt is the knuckles from what I am told. But again parts are so plentyfull, Gm used the front axles from 76-91 1/2 and 3/4 tons.the knuckles are the same as the dana 44, right? well Scotty, i've got your back on this one, since I'm going to be running a 4.10 gear'd 10/14 bolt combo. I'm still debating whether or not to weld that front... I'm not sure how well it's going to hold up. I'm going full hydro too. :D Pics and updates coming soon.

[dnixon]

man we are getting some pretty interesting jeeps now a days.. swapping in big axles.. hydro steering... 3/4 eliptical suspension (the project that I wanna see the most of)... we getting to be a regular pirate4x4 here.. excpet without all the jerks...

[scotty]

ya,everyting is the same from the knuckle out,and the knuckles are interchangeable. ill be usig my same knuckles,etc. since theyre allready reamed out for my heim joint steering.ill also be setting up some kind of hydro assist.

if i do it,i will weld the front,cause i dont have another true trac that will fit it :( and after having it and a welded diff up front,i dont want to have an open diff up front anymore.

[rockjeep44]

I know it's a big money issue but bottom line is if you're locked up running bigger than 35s a 10 bolt or 44 frontend is going to be nothing but trouble. I've wheeled with enough guys that run this setup and it may last one ride or so but they always break at the worst time. And yes you may be able to carry a ton of the spare parts for them but how many times has a frontend trail repair been anything but a PITA? I know if you guys are talking 14 bolt rear ends and all that good stuff you must be running some tough trails. The 1/2 ton stuff just can't hack it.
-Andrew

[FSJeeper]

ROTFLMAO!

I'm not biten. Scotty must be bored today and wants to stir up a little excitement!

[scotty]

who me? stir up excitement? tongue.gif

the whole point is i can put it together pretty much for free and jump form 3.73s to 4.10s or 4.56s

i wont disagree on the 10 bolt/44 vs 60 issue. the comparo,here,tho is the 10 bolt vs the 44

it just kinda surprised me how much bigger the pinion was with a comparable ratio

[FSJeeper]

Scotty, take the time you would use swapping in the wimpy 10 bolt and put that bad boy Dana 70 in and forget about it.

You can spend more time wheeling and less time wrenching!

[scotty]

i need 4.88 gears for my 14 bolt,or 4.10 or 4.56 gears for the 70 before thats an option :

also i have to have a locker for it(no way ill go back to an open front diff),and id really like to swap the inner shafts for some high strength,no neck down units before i install it.then i will atleast have my stock inners for spares-right now i dont have any spare 70 stuff at all,and that makes me nervous,no matter how tough it is smile.gif

thats all gonna be a nice chunk of change. unfortunately all i have right now is time :(

[Hump]

Scotty, can you please explain to me how knuckles are swappable??? Last time I looked mine are welded the the axle housing.

[jeepsr4ever]

the 10 bolt uses lots of the same parts as the 44 yes same u joint axles and outers ect but the tubes are thin and the pumpkin is prone to cracking under heavy load, it isnt a bad axle though, and i would swap it if thats what you have and can get a good deal on it

[scotty]

Originally posted by Hump:
Scotty, can you please explain to me how knuckles are swappable??? Last time I looked mine are welded the the axle housing.i was referring to the outer knuckles-the 10 bolt takes the same ball joints,and the spread of the inner yokes(that are welded to the housing) is the same,so you can take the outer knuckle,spindle,hub,etc. off of a 44 and put it on a 10 bolt.

jeepsr4ever,are you sayingthe pumpkin is more prone to cracking than a 44? ive not heard that one before...

[jeepsr4ever]

yeah scotty this sure is stirring the pot though..LOl i think the 10 bolt definatley has some advantages but my opinion is that the 44 is stronger

[scotty]

Originally posted by jeepsr4ever:
yeah scotty this sure is stirring the pot though..LOl i think the 10 bolt definatley has some advantages but my opinion is that the 44 is strongerplease elaborate. smile.gif same size ring gears,compareable shafts,same from knuckle out,10 bolt pinion slightly larger.

are you basing this on housing strength?