What are tire limits of 6 lug axles?

[AMC_FAN]

I've been planning a Grand Waggy build up for a while now and have a question. I had always heard 35"s were the limit for Dana 44s. Maybe Swamper Qs (which are an actual 35.5" tire), but that's it. I've been planning on going with the Qs, but I see someone selling 37x12.5x15s on 6 lug rims. So, looking at some other pics on the site, I see other 6 luggers with even bigger tires mounted up. When I do this, I'm planning on wheeling it quite a bit and don't want to be snapping axles. I may be running a Model 20 out back instead of a Dana 44, too.

Soooo... What's the limit for the 6 lug axles? What are people running for big(ger) tires on 6 lug axles and what experiences have you had? Should I stay at the 35.5" and under or is larger OK? Those 37"s look pretty good...

I'm sooooo confused...

[thomastenn]

its not the wheel lugs that determine axle strength it is material, diameter, and spline. you can get upto a 35 spline dana 44 locker from arb, 33 spline arb, ox, or detroit locker 4340 axles are bout the best u can get i wouldnt go over 37s with any dana 44 the pinion and ring gear can only hold so much anything bigger go dana 60

[AMC_FAN]

I know it's not the number of lugs the axle has, but I know that 6 lug Dana 44s and Model 20s are not as strong as 8 lug Dana 60s and even probably the 8 lug J truck Dana 44s, so that's why I was asking about the 6 lug axles. I was just using that as a reference instead of saying "the weaker or stronger Dana 44 or Dana 60", etc. I'm talking stock 6 lug Dana 44s or Model 20.

Do (or have) you run big(ger) tires on 6 lug axles? Why 37"s and not 36"s or 38"s or something? Why do I see guys with 38"+ tires on J10s with 6 lug axles?

Still somewhat confused...

[grand_wag_85]

The 6 lug axles are 1/2 ton axles and the 8 lugs are 3/4 ton axles. On FSJ's anyway, unless you find M715 axles but that's a different story.

Figure the bigger the tire the more you will beat on them:)

[phatmax95]

Why do I see guys with 38"+ tires on J10s with 6 lug axles?

Still somewhat confused...


You can run whatever size you want it just depends how hard you beat on it. They may be breaking or they may not even wheel it. The consensus around here is like around 35's max. I do believe its related a lot to weight which is why the small jeep guys can run a little larger.

[pineymike]

:cool: I've run big tires{35"-42"],on many jeeps for many years,I've "got away"with it or not?I've broken axles{in side&out}Wore out a detriot locker,I agree with the weight thing my CJ has the original D25 in front with 35" tires hase'nt given any trouble in years of abuse.It's all in your rite foot newer vehicle have auto traction control FSJ's have manul trac control.I think 37" tires wouldn't hurt a d44 under "normal" use?{whats that?} Good luck have fun:thumbsup:

[Casey]

I definately agree with the 'weight thing'. My Jeep weighs a couple of thousand pounds more than most any CJ. Engine power is a factor as well.

I went to one tons so I could run a tire bigger than 36" without much worry.

I'd say the consesus is max 36" Swampers...depending of course on how you drive.

[AMC_FAN]

OK, pretty much what I thought. Thanks guys!

[misfittom138]

I'm running 36x13.50 bias Iroks on mine. So far my 6 lugs are holding up fine. And I'm locked in the rear and welded up front.

[Dmntxn77]

Everyone says 35"s but there is no absolute answer.

Run what ever tire size you want to run, and go from there. Carry a spare shaft or two with you on the trails just in case. There are plenty sources on this board when and if you need axle parts.

If you find that braking axles is a big problem for you, then go up in axle size from there.

[youngjeeper]

Another factor to bring in is if your axles are locked or re-geared. I ran 33's with the d44's, stock gears 3.31, locked rear; Broke one shaft. Same setup when I went to 36's. Then I added 4.88 axle gears with the 36's (more torque) as well as welding the diffs front and rear and I break a rear shaft just about every time I go out and do some heavy wheeling. Now, people will tell you a lot of it has to do with my driving style..Since I got higher gears, I toned down a good bit on the aggressive driving, and I still manage to break the shafts.

Now, in my Dad's Choptop..He has 36's, 3.31 gears, welded rear, lock-right front. We have romped that thing HARD, jumping it over things, full throttle bouncing, etc. and have only broke a front axle joint.

So I see it as depending on a few more factors besides tire size alone. If you run 36's w/ higher gears, and lockers..you're more likely to break shafts.

[Gearhead 1990]

I'll just say I drive pretty hard...

I ran 35" SXs on D44s and broke a u joint in the front and spiders in rear

Also ran 38'' TSLs on 3/4 ton (still D44 front) and never had any problems

Then I ran 36'' TSL Radials on D60 front and broke an axle....

Its all it how you drive.....

[mdill]

I think Isuzu used a 12 bolt rear that was a six luger, that would out tough a 44.

If you run hard in the lower gears on surfaces that will un-load the wheels shifting the torque to only on end or one axle that is where you will snap shafts and such, you can do that with 31" tires, it is just much easier to do with 35"+ tires.

[Desert Beast]

i ran 38's on d44's for a while. you just have to be smart. no full throttle stuff, and watch any binds.

[bushwood44]

i ran 38's on d44's for a while. you just have to be smart. no full throttle stuff, and watch any binds.

Was that on a FSJ or the buggy?

[daddywinz]

..........and watch any binds.

just like falling,...it's the sudden stop that hurts. you just don't wanna have your foot still in it when the tire(s) come back into contact with earth. (reminds me of when i jumped a ramcharger 40+ feet and 15' in the air)http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/images/smilies/cheer.gif

CHOOSE. are you gonna behave? if not, go small on tires and/or big on axles. http://forums.off-road.com/images/smilies/codger.gif

i swear, some of you guys seem to like replacing axles, and other heavy hardware, every other weekend.http://forums.off-road.com/images/smilies/thud.gif ...not me. put what you need in/on it the first time. i got better things to do,...like chase the ol' lady http://www.americanjeepsterclub.org/forum/images/smilies/new/563.gif

kevin

[dusty]

I know it's not the number of lugs the axle has, but I know that 6 lug Dana 44s and Model 20s are not as strong as 8 lug Dana 60s and even probably the 8 lug J truck Dana 44s, so that's why I was asking about the 6 lug axles. I was just using that as a reference instead of saying "the weaker or stronger Dana 44 or Dana 60", etc. I'm talking stock 6 lug Dana 44s or Model 20.

Do (or have) you run big(ger) tires on 6 lug axles? Why 37"s and not 36"s or 38"s or something? Why do I see guys with 38"+ tires on J10s with 6 lug axles?

Still somewhat confused...


3/4 ton dana 44 is same strength as the 1/2 ton dana 44
the dana 60 because it is a full floater can sustain a little more torque but not much as it still is a 30 spline 1.30 diam shaft just like the dana 44. the ring and pinion on the other hand is better. with 36's and cosistent but moderated wheeling we finally twisted the spines on a ff 30 spline dana 60 in a cj w/ 4.0L with t-18 5:1 tcase 4.10's power lok rear and arb front with dodge lp dana 60 front.

with a diffrent rig still a cj 7 hard wheeling and a bigger motor amc 401 TBI T18 d300 4:1 4.56 gears 35's ARB's front and rear i twisted the splines. both were rear axles that twisted. i run spicer stock ujoints in the front 44 upgraded to warn alloys with ctms last winter and did alloy usa rear shafts for the 44.

my cherokee chief high compression big cam 401 nv4500 3.54's ploks front and rear 33's no problems yet and lots of towing. just upgraded to a 4bt and some power adders i am planning on upgrading to alloy shafts and a bigger diff cover in the rear later when i install the j10 rear end because torque and towing generate heat and constant twist where as 4 wheeling is more shock load and that is more of a problem than anything. ideally id do a dana 60 in my chief but keeping the old 6 lug wheels is somewhat nostalgia for me.

with the weight of waggy or of a chief i would definately look to a dana 60 for the rear and some alloy shafts in the front dana 44 with some better joints if you plan to get into 35" tires or bigger with a little comfort cushion

[incommando]

I think that "bind" thing is a biggee. If you rarely get were you are likely to get a tire wedged hard into something and you can remember not to romp the skinny pedal with the wheels at or near full turn, you can make a D44 last pretty well. And again, it would take 38's on a 14B to get back the ground clearance you had with 34's on a D44.

Many Isuzus used D44 rears, didn't they?

[Desert Beast]

Was that on a FSJ or the buggy?

it was on my rig when i had all the sheetmetal.

about 6 years ago. :thumbsup:

http://www.southbaycustoms.com/fullsizejeeps/rhino%20grill%20side.JPG

[skeletor]

you also have to understand that these axles arn't exactly new. i would say that a completely rebuilt d44 can handle 36-37s fairly long (unlocked or lsd), an unknown condition 20-30 year old axle cant be expected to handle 36-37s. theres a lot of people who put their nice new lift and big tires on, but dont know the condition of their axles and they go out and beat on a 30 year old dana 44 and break it so that axle must just be junk. i dont think i would change my axles until i was running 37s+. but if you start breaking things or expect hard trails, yes a 14bolt will work better.

[Gearhead 1990]

you also have to understand that these axles arn't exactly new. i would say that a completely rebuilt d44 can handle 36-37s fairly long (unlocked or lsd), an unknown condition 20-30 year old axle cant be expected to handle 36-37s. theres a lot of people who put their nice new lift and big tires on, but dont know the condition of their axles and they go out and beat on a 30 year old dana 44 and break it so that axle must just be junk. i dont think i would change my axles until i was running 37s+. but if you start breaking things or expect hard trails, yes a 14bolt will work better.

To me, it seems like older stuff seems to last longer than new parts of the same thing..... they just don't make things like they used to lol

[cajun_lad]

I was running 40's on d44's at this last ECI, on my Chero. No axle problems or anything related to tire size. But, I knew I was over the limit for my axles, so I stayed off the skinny pedal. But that was only 1 weekend. No telling how long that would have lasted without breaking something axle related. But I believe weight of the vehicle, gearing, and driving style all play equal parts.

[Casey]

I was running 40's on d44's at this last ECI, on my Chero. No axle problems or anything related to tire size. But, I knew I was over the limit for my axles, so I stayed off the skinny pedal. But that was only 1 weekend. No telling how long that would have lasted without breaking something axle related. But I believe weight of the vehicle, gearing, and driving style all play equal parts.
It would have burned to the ground waaaay before an axle snapped! :p

[AMC_FAN]

Wow! I haven't been on in a while and just saw all the replies. Thanks!

I'm thinking of sticking to my original plan and going with Dana 44 front, Dana 44 or Model 20 rear, both with 4.10s, and Swamper Qs. My driving style is pretty tame on the loud pedal (while four wheeling, anyway), so I should be OK with this setup. If something breaks, I'll deal with it.

If I want to romp on the skinny pedal, I'll wait for the nice weather, jump in my drag car, and hit the track. :D

[sungoesdown]

It would have burned to the ground waaaay before an axle snapped! :p

lol

[Sambo]

i ran 38's on d44's for a while. you just have to be smart. no full throttle stuff, and watch any binds.
same here! i ran 38's for almost 3 yrs on d44's...

[Long&Low]

Another factor is how old are you axle shafts? If your runniing around on a set of 25 or 35 year old axles, then well, they have probably been somewhat stressed at some point in their life time.

If your running hi-zoot brand nmew chrome-moly stuff, then you'll probably get away with running a bigger tire.

A lot does come down to terrain, driver technique, gearing and differential equipment, and how hard you are on the vehicle.

[misfittom138]

same here! i ran 38's for almost 3 yrs on d44's...

"Impressive. Most impressive"- Darth Vader, Empire Strikes Back.

[Aaron871]

I've been running 44's on 6 lug axles for years.......


http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp146/SneakyAaron/Beadlocks_0007.jpg







:whistle:

[dusty]

This thread needed to be brought back from the dead. The great debate on axle strengths has only begun and new wind is being blown into old axles.

Traditionally the m23. With its larger ring gear 8.875" was considered equal to or slightly stronger than a dana 44 with its 8.5". That debate has raged for years because axle wise the dana 44 with 1.30 inch 30 spline vs 1.25 29 spline had a little edge but lost it when it came to contact patch on the ring gear

Today we all grumble about our dana 44 rear ends as though because of the weight of our rigs that the 8.5 inch r and p is killing us forcing those who want to keep their 6 lug look to upgrade to 8 lug.....

the dana 50 r and p cand be put into dana 44 hp housingsthe large jk dana 44 r and pinion at 8.9 inchs also called the m226 in nissans can be put into our d44 housings. From the looks of it a std high speed dana 44 3.73 and down carrier is needed and then use the larger dana 44 or super 44 if you want to call it that ring and pinion from the rear end of a JK and your are essentially pushing our stock drivetrain past the current weak link.

Using a girdled diff cover like jana enterprises would eliminate many of our dana 44 weaknesses up a 37 inch tire even in our heavy rigs if modern alloy shafts are used. configuring a current dana 44 with the JK jeep low pinion 8.9" gearset, it rivals the amc model 20 for ring gear strength actually stronger due to the larger pinion diamer on the jk gear set and with 32, 33 or 35 spline alloy shafts the dana 44 now far exceeds anything that the 29 spline 1.25 alloy shafts could have brought the model 20 up to.

So now with nearly a 9" diameter ring gear at 226mm and more contact patch between the ring and pinon, a larger diamter pinion and still fitting into our existing housings our rear ends especially when running a 4bt or other higher power engines this might be a cheap strength upgrade, buy the R&P do the install and reused the carrier that you have type situation.

Sure a 60 would be great but when you dont want to change wheels and jump to 16" rubber from your 15" rubber but you are worried about the abuse that the rear ring and pinon will be taking this might be the next best thing. and it will allow you to continue to do incremental upgrades. R&P one year, detroit the next, alloy 30 spline.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=914583

See post 317 on page 13

[Desert Rat]

Everything breaks. I snapped a stock shaft with 33s. I've since upgraded to Alloy Chromos and have been OK since, but it all depends on traction, torque, etc.

Forget who made the Isuzu comment above, but Rodeos/Amigos use a standard D44 rear axle that's about 58" WMS to WMS