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View Full Version : interesting Tornado 230 application

chrisnsarah
10-30-2008, 10:15 AM
I'd put this in online sales links, but thought it was interesting. I've heard of them being used in industrial applications, but this is the first I've seen one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JEEP-OVHC-Tornado-230-CID-Kaiser-Engine.-Hot-Rod-Rat_W0QQitemZ270292299043QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ2008 1026?IMSfp=TL081026104005r7020
JeepBountyHunter
10-30-2008, 10:54 AM
Interesting carb setup..
Mikel
10-30-2008, 11:41 AM
The latin american version of the 230 had quite a racing pedigree...

My Argentinean friend says it was a "fabulous engine" :thumbsup:
Cecil14
10-30-2008, 12:42 PM
I would bet, kept in good repair of course, that the 230 would have been a phenomenal engine. Overhead cam, cross-flow head. I bet you could get the redline up there pretty high with that setup. :) Not to mention it was built with the '50s "overbuild the crap out of it" mentality. :)

Biggest problem there for us would be that high rpm motors don't do us much good. :)


aa
Elliott
10-30-2008, 02:19 PM
With some kinds of mud, high rpm is the only way to clear it from your tread. I'm a fan of the skinny pedal.:D
drlocke
10-30-2008, 03:24 PM
The latin american version of the 230 had quite a racing pedigree...

My Argentinean friend says it was a "fabulous engine" :thumbsup:

I'm sure those latinos did a lot of work on those motors before racing them. The design is there, but perhaps a number of parts upgrades, B&B work, etc, went into these motors before attempting to scream some extra ponies out of them.

As stock it was a pretty tame engine for all its uniqueness, and I can tell you from observation that they would fall apart under sustained hi-rev application. They were a good motor if used sanely, but a guy I worked for as a kid had a Gladiator with one of them under the hood, and he drove the truck like he drove his Audi. When I showed up for work one day the truck was gone. The guy told me that the engine blew up; the internal parts of the engine went into a zillion pieces with a series of loud bangs, and the block was perforated like a Swiss cheese. Good-bye, Gladiator.
rustywagoneers_com
10-30-2008, 04:04 PM
Used extensively in the Argentinian Renault Torino. (Think 1965 Rambler American, built until 1982)

http://jalopnik.com/cars/retro/rambler-rogue-no-renault-torino-239271.php

http://jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2007/02/RenaultTorino_RamblerAmerican.jpg



http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1344/1471106390_436ea26c2c_o.jpg


There was a triple weber version with 248HP.

http://www.torosite.com.ar/imagenes/modificados/grandes/6.gif


If anyone can tell, I would REALLY love to get a few of these...
rustywagoneers_com
10-30-2008, 04:07 PM
Here's one of the triple-weber units.

http://www.torosite.com.ar/imagenes/originales/grandes/71.gif

peace
Dave
Mikel
10-30-2008, 05:09 PM
I'm pretty sure the argentinean version had 7 mains, vs the 5 in the Jeep version. It was probably a much stouter design.


I'm sure those latinos did a lot of work on those motors before racing them. The design is there, but perhaps a number of parts upgrades, B&B work, etc, went into these motors before attempting to scream some extra ponies out of them.

As stock it was a pretty tame engine for all its uniqueness, and I can tell you from observation that they would fall apart under sustained hi-rev application. They were a good motor if used sanely, but a guy I worked for as a kid had a Gladiator with one of them under the hood, and he drove the truck like he drove his Audi. When I showed up for work one day the truck was gone. The guy told me that the engine blew up; the internal parts of the engine went into a zillion pieces with a series of loud bangs, and the block was perforated like a Swiss cheese. Good-bye, Gladiator.
Tonka J200
10-30-2008, 05:39 PM
With the one bbl. carb, I'd assume this is the low compression version, which makes sense for an industrial application anyway.

This is only a couple hours from me, and I can always use some spares!

230 Tornado guru Bob Stewart was, at one time, working on getting a fully race prepped Tornado shipped up from Argentina. I don't know if he ever got it or not.
The PIG Smith
10-30-2008, 07:12 PM
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1344/1471106390_436ea26c2c_o.jpg

WOW!
I could drive that to work.
Even with a hot 230 I6, it would be even better with a 401 in front of a T56 six speed!
OOO YESSS...bring on the Mustangs and Camaros!
chrisnsarah
10-30-2008, 07:18 PM
I thought the low compression ones came about in '64 and my manual says the 2bbl was only used with automatics. That's odd becasue I've never seen a Wag or gladiator with a 1bbl, except M715's.

There's also a finned Argentinian valve cover and I thought there was a 4 cyl that made it to prototype stage.
Tonka J200
10-31-2008, 06:31 AM
I thought the low compression ones came about in '64 and my manual says the 2bbl was only used with automatics. That's odd becasue I've never seen a Wag or gladiator with a 1bbl, except M715's.

There's also a finned Argentinian valve cover and I thought there was a 4 cyl that made it to prototype stage.

It's been my understanding that the low compression engine came with the one bbl. carb and was only used with automatics. I'm trying to find my documentation to back that up.

I've had six 230's and five of them were high compression 2 bbls. (all with manual trans.) and one was a low-comp 1 bbl. and it had an automatic (Borg-Warner) bolted to it when I got it.

I know M-715's used a 1 bbl version too, but I've never seen a civy version with a 1 bbl and a manual trans.

The ad's description stating that these were used as industrial engines in the '50's is not correct, as they were first produced in 1962.
crispyboy
10-31-2008, 06:43 AM
I learned to drive at 9 years old with a 64' J-200 (small rear window) that had this engine. There were a lot of loads of gravel and fence posts hauled with that ole' girl by my dad.
I was amazed as a kid to watch dad double clutch the 3 speed on the column to keep the truck moving up hills.
Tornado230
10-31-2008, 06:19 PM
My father had a 1965 2-wheel drive 4-door wagoneer.
It had a 1-barrel carburetor.
mikeystoy
10-31-2008, 08:16 PM
my '65 had a 1 bbl and a 3 sp.
bodydropped72
12-25-2008, 03:04 PM
i have a 63 wagoneer with a two barrell also not sure of the comp.but i believe it had an auto behind it thats the reason i aquired it who ever took it out probably could not find a replacement im actually lookin for parts to put a manual trans behind it with NO transfer case so if anyone has some stuff layin around please let me know
Tornado230
12-25-2008, 03:33 PM
Wagoneer was available with 2-wheel drive probably until the '67 model.
The OHC motor was phased out during the end of the '65 model run. Replaced with the 232.
It is possible to find one.
Sent you a PM.
mdill
12-25-2008, 04:26 PM
Couple questions, the OHC was used in millitary rigs (M715 ..) untill 69 (??)
I was under the impresion the bottom end of the OHV 230 shared most of its stuff with the Contenental 230 Flat head engine that was used in industrial applications well into the 70's if not latter.
Is this correct ?

Thanks Mike D.
Tornado230
12-25-2008, 04:42 PM
Check this out--http://www.ifsja.org/tech/motors/tornado.html

The military version differs from the civilian one as to the motor mounts.
There is some talk that the military version was not made here, but I don't have info one way or the other.
The blocks are stamped as to date and origin, if you know how to decode the numbers.
ricbee
12-26-2008, 05:58 PM
I had a '65 j3000,cab&chassis,it never had a bed on it,it once had a pto driven spool on the back,to pull electric cables.it had a 230,1 bbl,t98 4 speed,with pto,dana 20 tcase,with side motor mounts&power steering.It was a civvy truck,formerly from a power company in Toledo.A friend now has the engine&trans.
yankeedog
12-28-2008, 11:55 AM
the motor also had some design flaws . it was all stroke ,it had a 3 1/8 inch bore.. i have also been told that the cam only has 6 lobes that the same lobe was used to operate both valves.4 main bearings.If i had one I would run it. i wouldnt buy one tho.
ob1jeeper
12-28-2008, 01:04 PM
In the early 70's there was a fellow in Toledo, who campaigned a Ddirt track Sprinter powered by a Toronado Jeep OHC 6. Saw it run a number of times at local midwest tracks. It ran VERY well, keeping up with, and even winning it's share of races against the SBC sprinter's of the day...;)

Don'te recall much else about it other than the unique sound it made.
JeepBountyHunter
06-01-2010, 05:47 AM
I had forgotten this post....this is getting more interesting. I want a Torino, lol. Also my manual says the two barrels came only with automatics? My 63 J200 has the T90 and its definatly original to it?
CarlBraun
06-01-2010, 06:16 AM
I had forgotten this post....this is getting more interesting. I want a Torino, lol. Also my manual says the two barrels came only with automatics? My 63 J200 has the T90 and its definatly original to it?

I currently own a 65 wagoneer with a BW 3 speed automatic and it has the 2 bbl carb. a previous 65 wagoneer I had was set up the same way. I recently parted out a 64 wagoneer with a manual trans and a 1 bbl carb. All of these 230 engines had 8.5:1 compresion ratios as determined by the stamp in the block.
mud89
06-01-2010, 08:11 AM
Pretty impressive, this video of a torino with the triple webers

http://www.tu.tv/videos/renault-torino-en-argentina
Tonka J200
06-01-2010, 08:43 AM
I had forgotten this post....this is getting more interesting. I want a Torino, lol. Also my manual says the two barrels came only with automatics? My 63 J200 has the T90 and its definatly original to it?
I keep hearing that manuals say that the 2bbls and 1 bbls only came on either manuals or automatics.

My service manual lists the following for 230 Tornados:

Engine Number
Prefix

NS60C- 2 Wheel drive, Standard Transmission, Single Throat Carb.
TS60C- 4 Wheel drive, Standard Transmission, Single Throat Carb.
ND60C- 2 Wheel drive, Standard Transmission, Dual Throat Carb.
TD60C- 4 Wheel drive, Standard Transmission, Dual Throat Carb.
AD60C- Automatic Transmission

So my service manual states that you could get either carb with a manual trans, and doesn't specify which carb you got with an automatic. Maybe the "D" in the automatic's engine number would indicate a dual throat carb?

I've owned 6 Tornados - 5 from stick-shift vehicles - all with 2 bbls, and 1 from an automatic, and it had a 1 bbl.

Confused yet?:eek:
mud89
06-01-2010, 09:55 AM
x2
My understanding was also that low compression or 2 barrel carb were options, and so that 1 bbl and high compression were the standard.
joe
06-01-2010, 11:37 AM
My 63 came w/2bbl and T90. Cool video. Wonder if the Torino ever made it into SCCA racing? sure isa lot of food for thought if one could get one of the IKA motors. Be fun to build an underdog motor.
JeepBountyHunter
06-01-2010, 11:42 AM
You got me...I'm seeing the same with the service manuals here..


I keep hearing that manuals say that the 2bbls and 1 bbls only came on either manuals or automatics.

My service manual lists the following for 230 Tornados:

Engine Number
Prefix

NS60C- 2 Wheel drive, Standard Transmission, Single Throat Carb.
TS60C- 4 Wheel drive, Standard Transmission, Single Throat Carb.
ND60C- 2 Wheel drive, Standard Transmission, Dual Throat Carb.
TD60C- 4 Wheel drive, Standard Transmission, Dual Throat Carb.
AD60C- Automatic Transmission

So my service manual states that you could get either carb with a manual trans, and doesn't specify which carb you got with an automatic. Maybe the "D" in the automatic's engine number would indicate a dual throat carb?

I've owned 6 Tornados - 5 from stick-shift vehicles - all with 2 bbls, and 1 from an automatic, and it had a 1 bbl.

Confused yet?:eek:
mud89
06-01-2010, 01:13 PM
My 63 came w/2bbl and T90. Cool video. Wonder if the Torino ever made it into SCCA racing? sure isa lot of food for thought if one could get one of the IKA motors. Be fun to build an underdog motor.

They say in wikipedia, that a torino finished third int the 1969 84hours of nurburgring. It was a 290hp car : that's cool a tornado OHC of 290hp ;)

http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jong/Races/1969%20Nurburgring%2084hrs.html
The PIG Smith
06-01-2010, 04:29 PM
Pretty impressive, this video of a torino with the triple webers

http://www.tu.tv/videos/renault-torino-en-argentina
WOW!
What a kewl ride!
How would person ever get one of these imported to the US? :thumbsup:
joe
06-01-2010, 05:07 PM
WOW!
What a kewl ride!
How would person ever get one of these imported to the US? :thumbsup:Been a long time since I've dealt with US Customs and the DOT but used to if 25 years old or older you were golden. Newer and it's quaranteened till you make it meet US DOT safety smog specs or the DOT gets bored and crushes the thing...which ever happens first.
I've got enough freq flyer miles to consider finding a 2WD J-200 in South America and driving one back. Other than the US DOT BS only real planning involved is getting shipping around the Darien Gap.

If you ever decide to bring a Torino in Bryan and get the paperwork sorted in advance drop me a PM I'd bring it up for ya cheap. As in return fuel/border/Darien crossing and occasional cold one expenses.
joe
06-01-2010, 05:58 PM
They say in wikipedia, that a torino finished third int the 1969 84hours of nurburgring. It was a 290hp car : that's cool a tornado OHC of 290hp ;)

http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jong/Races/1969%20Nurburgring%2084hrs.html
Thanks for the link. 3rd at the ring says something for the car and the driver.
Greg Taylor
06-01-2010, 08:32 PM
That is an AWESOME Torino video.

Bryan, there are some IKA/Renault Torinos in the USA. There was a sweet one on Ebay about 2 years ago, but a Ford 302 had been swapped into it. I would personally love to have one and TURBOCHARGE it.

The 230 OHC engines have forged internals and were loosely based off of the Continental 226 engines. There are a "few" similar items between the 2. Also, the Tornado was the first mass-produced OHC 6 in the USA.
The PIG Smith
06-01-2010, 09:38 PM
If you ever decide to bring a Torino in Bryan and get the paperwork sorted in advance drop me a PM I'd bring it up for ya cheap. As in return fuel/border/Darien crossing and occasional cold one expenses.

Bryan, there are some IKA/Renault Torinos in the USA. There was a sweet one on Ebay about 2 years ago, but a Ford 302 had been swapped into it. I would personally love to have one and TURBOCHARGE it.

You guys are kill'n me!
I think I would enjoy a modern multi-carb 230 in a Torino.
But I would need to investigate a 5 speed transplant...like a World Class T5 from a Rustang.
1965JeepOwner
08-22-2010, 09:26 PM
I thought the low compression ones came about in '64 and my manual says the 2bbl was only used with automatics. That's odd becasue I've never seen a Wag or gladiator with a 1bbl, except M715's.

There's also a finned Argentinian valve cover and I thought there was a 4 cyl that made it to prototype stage.
I know this is an old posting but I just got a j200 (1963) that has a 1bbl holley carb on it.
JeepsAndGuns
08-23-2010, 05:43 PM
Get you one of those tripple webber 290hp OHC's and drop it into a CJ. I think that would be sweet!

That vid was pretty cool, cant believe hes hittin 7K with that thing!:eek: wow
Elliott
08-23-2010, 06:11 PM
Pretty impressive, this video of a torino with the triple webers

http://www.tu.tv/videos/renault-torino-en-argentina

That is pretty cool... I used to launch a '72 240Z at 6,500rpm and the only thing I ever lost to off the line was a Kawasaki Z1. Back in the '70s.... :thumbsup:
Greg Taylor
08-23-2010, 08:20 PM
cant believe hes hittin 7K with that thing!:eek: wow

the 230 OHC has a forged crank and rods. The Argentinian version had 7 main bearings, as compared to the 4-main bearing US version ... and ... the engines were internally balanced. With the right cam and valve train, 7K RPM is totally acheivable.

I personally think that a turbocharged 230 OHC in a J-truck would be a sweet ride to drive and 290-HP would be easy to hit with a turbo on that engine. It basically needs forged pistons and it would be a V8 killer in disguise.