cummins in a cherokee

[gotmike]

just thought i'd show off mine a bit...

my dad had an old '77 jeep cherokee chief that broke down and sat in a field for quite a while... he was about to the point of hauling it to the crusher when i piped up and asked if he'd just give it to me... it was purchased by his car dealership and the title basically dissolved at the same time as the dealership did... so i had a jeep with not title... and no way to get the title... not without alot of work... so i hatched the plan to get the state of wyoming to issue me a new VIN... use enough donor parts and change the vehicle enough that the original vin would no longer pertain. i had just finished paying off my '92 dodge standard cab, and with the recent addition to my family i really needed a back seat... so i took a week, and merged the two vehicles... 3 VIN inspections, an envelope full of paperwork, and 2 weeks later the state issued me a new vin and an estimated value of the vehicle... so in the space of a month i had taken two vehicles and created one monstrosity unlike much any other vehicle within several hundred miles... fortunately i had use of several welders, an overhead crane, and most any other metalworking tool i could need... i fabricated my own body mounts, and pedal brackets along with a slew of other brackets for the clutch reservior, radiator, air filter housing and toyota bucket seats... i found a fuel tank in a buddy's back yard that fit perfectly between the rails behind the axle, and am now installing an onboard air system...

[TPICherokee]

Very cool! It has been done a few times before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8q4KPP3N2U

and...

:worthless:

[gotmike]

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/jeep001.jpg

[gotmike]

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/jeepproject1.jpg

[gotmike]

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/jeep012.jpg

[bigun]

Any pictures taken during the swap?

[gotmike]

there were pics taken of almost everything... but my brother changed the batteries in the camera without taking the memory card out... and it fried the card... and all the pics with it...

i started the swap by disassembling both vehicles... i had acess to a crane so it made some things easier... i removed the bed on the truck and then gutted the interiors on both... took the entire dash and steering column out on the jeep and took the column out on the truck as well... i then had to put both columns back in to to keep them moveable... i unbolted the body of the jeep in one complete piece then took the hood off... i left the doors closed and ran one strap completely around the body just behind the doors... i then ran another strap from the middle of the main strap, up through the tranny tunnel and then hooked it to the crane... i was able to pick the entire body off in one piece... that way... and then i just rolled the frame back out the door... at the end of the night i just set the body back on the frame and wheeled the whole thing out... that was the one stipulation my boss made... that i be able to wheel everything out of the way each night... i took some measurements and was able to figure out how much of the frame to cut out...

i cut the frame right in front of the rear axle... on the dodge trucks there is a nice straight section there that was very easy to cut and line back up... i cut the frame at a fairly severe angle to limit the chances of articulation cracking/shearing my welds... i then put a large diamond shaped fish plate on the outside of the frame and welded all four sides around leaving stress reliefs on the very tip... i eventually want to box that section of frame to re-inforce it more... but that will not be easy... my cuts were directly between the two fuel tank cross members so i left them intact to re-inforce the frame itself...

when i made my new body mounts for the jeep body to sit on the dodge frame i set my height with small pieces of metal stacked in to get clearances everywhere i needed them and then took extensive measurements to keep them all the same... i then used an iron worker to notch pieces of 3" channel and bend them over into an L shape and welded the notched parts together...... which i punched a hole in for the body mount itself and bolted them to the "floating" body... when i had all the mounts made and bolted in place i plaz'ed open anyplace where there was an existing rivet in the way and welded them to the frame... i shortened the rear driveline myself too... i just simply cut out the weld and removed the yolk from the shaft and then cut the shaft with our band saw and welded the yolk back in very carefully...

with the dash removed i was able to put the dodge steering column in the jeep body and mount it in place... i was also able to remove the pedal assembly from the dodge and fabricate some brackets to hang them from... i then fitted the clutch master cylinder through the firewall and then the brake booster and master cylinder... i had to build a small bracket for the clutch reservior to bolt to... i used the main dodge wiring harness and re-cut the existing firewall plug hole to accommadate... i took the switch handle out of the jeep light switch and inserted it into the dodge light switch. i bolted the dodge switch to the jeep dash after i put it back in...

to put the radiator back into the jeep i had to cut a little bit out of the top of the front clip and drop it down into the middle space where the factory radiator went... the dodge radiator just uses two rubber feet that drop into punched holes in the dodge body and brackets that cap the same type feet on either side at the top... so i inverted those brackets and welded them to the front crossmember on the dodge frame and them built some tabbed brackets to replace the top brackets on the radiator itself... then all i had to do was bolt the radiator to the body and it was set... the intercooler was a bit more of a challenge... i wanted some fans on the intercooler and had thought of mounting it subaru style up against the hood but there just isn't enough room... so i had to fit it through the grille...

to set the body i had removed the the trans cover and the trans and x-fer case shift levers... i was then able to put some reference marks on the edges of the opening and set the cover back on... then i marked where the levers would come through and cut the openings... at this point i was still sitting on an egg crate for a drivers seat... so i had to fit my toyota seats into place... i had to massage the trans hump a bit on the passenger side to make room for the seat but it was a fairly straightforward install... though the bases are welded in place instead of bolted... more for offroading then for street use...

i cut the bracket for the jeep wiper motor off the firewall and bolted the dodge motor in it's place and the modified the jeep arm slightly to fit on the dodge motor... and bolt up to the jeep assembly... suprisingly there isn't all that much difference in the parts from the dodge to the jeep... since i am usuing the dodge wiper stuff i have intermittent wiper control...

to fit the heater element in behind the turbo downpipe i had to modify the stock housing and put the heater core directly against the firewall... then i used some galvanized sheet metal and made a new cover to direct the air from the factory fan, through the core, and then into the factory heater ducting...

i know there are more details about the swap but it's been a while since i actually did everything...
if i had had more time to spend on things i could have made everything much more finished looking but for having just one week to do all of it and have a running vehicle again i'm pretty happy with the result...

[1977cherokeechief]

is that on the cherokee frame?

[mattmopar440]

What the power like good 0-60 time ????

Yes please post more pics during the process

Thanks matt :thumbsup:

[gotmike]

no... it's not on the cherokee frame... i modified the dodge frame to fit under the cherokee. gave me more room to work with... and it's got more then enough power... it's running 36 x 14.50's and it'll roast them 1st, 2nd, and 3rd if i let it... with that NV4500 first gear is pretty much too low to use unless i'm towing... and i get better then 20 mpg...

[bushwood44]

20 mpg and unreal torque that would be nice.:thumbsup:

[El Jefe]

hey. your jeep was in one of the Petersens 4wheel readers rides. Or was it 4wheeler. cant remember. but it was you. bout time you got here.

Nice rig by the way.

[gotmike]

i just stumbled across it the other day... but now that i'm here it's great to see all these other rigs and know that i'm not the only one with bad taste...

[jaber]

i just stumbled across it the other day... but now that i'm here it's great to see all these other rigs and know that i'm not the only one with bad taste...

Your not, some of us have it BAAADDDDD!!!! :thumbsup:

I hope to one day follow your que and do my own into a '77 J-20. Now if I could just find a motor I could afford.......

[gotmike]

i'd keep an eye out at insurance salvage auctions, and junk yards for a wrecked truck... the dodge frame is really very close to the same as the jeep frame... it's just heavier duty... i installed the dodge steering column and braking system onto the firewall of my jeep and kept most of he dodge wiring harness i used the clip that the fuse box attaches to and affixed that to the firewall so that the dodge fusebox isn't just hanging under the dash... and then i welded closed the factory hole where the main harness comes through the firewall and cut a new hole for the dodge setup to mount. This kept the cost down and wasn't all that labor intensive. in the long run, with selling off the leftover parts, i made money doing the swap... so my wife couldn't complain. though i don't count the cost of purchasing the truck... since i had already driven it for 3 or 4 years and it was paid for...

[gotmike]

finally got my fuel tank in... problem is... i don't know what it came out of... it bolted in so easy it's not even funny... and i got my L.E.D's in where my factory tail lights used to be... i'll get pic's up later... now i just need to clean out the interior completely and get it blasted and painted/herculined... that's going to be a dirty weekend though

[gotmike]

here's a link to some more pics... including one of the tail lights
http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/?start=all

[gotmike]

got my onboard air up and running too... pics are on the link above...

[The PIG Smith]

the dodge frame is really very close to the same as the jeep frame... it's just heavier duty...
As I am thinking about a Cummins 6BT Conversation (very long term project) I am concerned about my Jeep Frame and have some questions.
When you say the Dodge Frame is heavier than the Jeep frame, I am assuming that that you are comparing
a Jeep Cherokee/Wagoneer style frame to a Dodge 3/4 ton pickup truck frame.

I am considering a Cummins 6BT in a J truck.
So, would like to think a 3/4 ton Jeep frame is about the same strength as a 3/4 ton Dodge frame.

There has been some discussion on this forum in the past that if a person uses a Jeep Frame for a 6BT swap,
that some reinforcing of the frame is required (boxing?)
But, I will assume the folks that report this modification requirement is speaking about the 1/2 ton rated Cherokee/Wagoneer frame and not the J Truck frame.

I am writing to ask that you elaborate on the why you felt you needed to use the Dodge frame.
What does the Dodge frame provide?
Deeper frame rails?
Thicker material?
Stronger steel?

If you convince me that a Dodge Frame is the way to go, would a frame from a Dodge 2500 gasser be the same as a powered be a CTD?

[gotmike]

the frame on the jeep was 4 or 5" channel... the dodge frame is 8" channel it's heavier steel and it has some very stout cross members... it is definately a stronger frame... plus it's got a dana 70 rear end... i would think that the frame on a newer gasser would be strong enough... but i don't know off the top of my head... and i could be wrong but i don't believe there's much difference in the frames between the half ton or 3/4 ton jeep frames just a difference in the springs and axle... are you planning on lifting the truck or keeping it low for towing? if you are going to lift it as well you would be better off getting a newer frame because once you do the swap you're already lifted... and i had to shorten my frame but you may be able to find a single cab short box to pretty much match your current wheelbase... it's really up to you how much money you want to spend and how much work you want to do...

[JeepsAndGuns]

Just saw your jeep in a issue of (I think) diesel power.
I was wondering if it was anyone on here.

[The PIG Smith]

the frame on the jeep was 4 or 5" channel... the dodge frame is 8" channel it's heavier steel and it has some very stout cross members... it is definately a stronger frame... plus it's got a dana 70 rear end... i would think that the frame on a newer gasser would be strong enough... but i don't know off the top of my head... and i could be wrong but i don't believe there's much difference in the frames between the half ton or 3/4 ton jeep frames just a difference in the springs and axle... are you planning on lifting the truck or keeping it low for towing? if you are going to lift it as well you would be better off getting a newer frame because once you do the swap you're already lifted... and i had to shorten my frame but you may be able to find a single cab short box to pretty much match your current wheelbase... it's really up to you how much money you want to spend and how much work you want to do...
Thank you for your answers.

I am seeking a Tow Rig, so no lift for me.
But I was thinking some sorta of body was required because the 6BT is such a tall engine.

You are correct, J10 and J20 are the same.

8 inches is a deep frame.
I went out and looked at my J20's frame under the cab
It measures roughly 6.5"
I think finding a CTD Frame maybe a challenge
I am not worried about how much work is envolved, (well, I am kinda/sorta am)
as much as how much $$$ it would take to convert a Dodge CTD frame to my Jeep body.

[gotmike]

it's actually much easier then i thought it would be... but it's up to you... just go to a junkyard and do some research... take some measurements...

[J10Mike]

Sweet conversion...But, I'm just curious. Have you taken that heavy front end off road into some serious mud?
Being the owner of a Dodge CTD 4x4, I know that the engine weighs in excess of 1200 Lbs.
In fact, while off road just goofing off, I got stuck going thru a mud hole...Ok, a big mud hole. Granted, my axles are stock and open. But, it wasn't deep enough to get stuck. My old J10 wouldn't have gotten stuck. Yet, my CTD sank deep in the mud up front.
Guys, unless you have an ARB locker in the front D60 and at least a LSD in the rear, that 5.9 6BT is not a good conversion for off road use.
Been there, done that.
It is a great conversion for a FSJ that tows heavy loads. Just don't take it off road and expect it to glide thru those mud puddles...It's just too heavy.

[jdaniel83]

My friend had a similar conversion and he had some of the same issues. His Wagoneer had a lot of power and could pull a house down, but it lost a bit of it's off-road capabilities because of the added weight. Good thing for him was that he didn't do a whole lot of off roading, but one time he had to he felt pretty stupid when I had to get my dad's stock '62 Willys CJ5 with the little 4-banger and Army tires to pull him out. He really felt bad when I went through the same hole he had just gotten stuck in easily, but then again those little Jeeps can go through just about anything.

[gotmike]

why do you think i have 14.5" wide tires on it??? and i don't really like mud... it plays hell on your seals and axles... i'd rather crawl over rocks and climb hills... we have some pretty good trails around here for that kind of thing... plus with the wagon, the weight is a little more balanced... i got stuck once with the pickup and the main problem was no weight in the back i couldn't get any grip with the rear tires... with the jeep setup and all my tools and straps in the rear, i've got plenty of weight on my rear axle and therefore quite a bit of traction...

[gotmike]

you might also check out http://www.cummins-conversion.com

and if you do go with the 6bt and don't hook up a/c for the jeep you have the option of using the pump for an onboard air system... i did it on my jeep and it works phenomenally...

[Mikel]

When I parted the 1991 W350 CTD Ram that provided the axles for my J300, I was amazed at how wimpy the frame was and how much it flexed without a body on it. It was C-channel from end to end, yes, taller than a J-truckīs, but a J-frame is half boxed. The spring mounts didnīt look any stouter than those in a non-post mount truck. IIRC, both frames were 3/16" in thickness.


http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/1st-generation-ram-forum-1989-1993/177224-free-frame-ct.html#post1700218


As I am thinking about a Cummins 6BT Conversation (very long term project) I am concerned about my Jeep Frame and have some questions.
When you say the Dodge Frame is heavier than the Jeep frame, I am assuming that that you are comparing
a Jeep Cherokee/Wagoneer style frame to a Dodge 3/4 ton pickup truck frame.

I am considering a Cummins 6BT in a J truck.
So, would like to think a 3/4 ton Jeep frame is about the same strength as a 3/4 ton Dodge frame.

There has been some discussion on this forum in the past that if a person uses a Jeep Frame for a 6BT swap,
that some reinforcing of the frame is required (boxing?)
But, I will assume the folks that report this modification requirement is speaking about the 1/2 ton rated Cherokee/Wagoneer frame and not the J Truck frame.

I am writing to ask that you elaborate on the why you felt you needed to use the Dodge frame.
What does the Dodge frame provide?
Deeper frame rails?
Thicker material?
Stronger steel?

If you convince me that a Dodge Frame is the way to go, would a frame from a Dodge 2500 gasser be the same as a powered be a CTD?

[ob1jeeper]

When I parted the 1991 W350 CTD Ram that provided the axles for my J300, I was amazed at how wimpy the frame was and how much it flexed without a body on it. It was C-channel from end to end, yes, taller than a J-truckīs, but a J-frame is half boxed. The spring mounts didnīt look any stouter than those in a non-post mount truck. IIRC, both frames were 3/16" in thickness.


http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/1st-generation-ram-forum-1989-1993/177224-free-frame-ct.html#post1700218
There are many significant differences in the two frames...
- While the Jeep frame may be boxed, it is:
1) of lighter material thicknesses
2) has a much smaller section modulus than the open C-channeled Dodge frame

- Additionally, the Dodge frame is made of HSLA steel, where the Jeep frame is simply stameped cold rolled steel.

- Finally, the Dodge frame has been designed to spread the stresses caused by a engine of nearly double the weight of the one the Jeep frame was designed to handle, and to handle the torque pulses of that engine.

There is absolutely no comparison, and no question that the Dodge frame would be more durable in a CTD application.

[Mikel]

There are many significant differences in the two frames...
- While the Jeep frame may be boxed, it is:
1) of lighter material thicknesses

Iīd like to mike both frames, but the Dodge frame I junked seemed to be .188, just like the Jeep frame.


2) has a much smaller section modulus than the open C-channeled Dodge frame

If Iīm correct about the thickness, there is no way the boxed part of the frame has a lower moment of inertia than the front half of the Dodge frame, even with an extra 1" or 1.5" in frame height


- Additionally, the Dodge frame is made of HSLA steel, where the Jeep frame is simply stameped cold rolled steel.

What is your source on this? And in 1990?


- Finally, the Dodge frame has been designed to spread the stresses caused by a engine of nearly double the weight of the one the Jeep frame was designed to handle, and to handle the torque pulses of that engine.

There is absolutely no comparison, and no question that the Dodge frame would be more durable in a CTD application.
The Dodge frame has more reinforcement in the engine area (in the form of massive crossmembers), which the Jeep frame never needed because of the lighter engines that were used, and the lower moments that the engine mounts applied to the frame.

Regards,
Mikel

[budojeepr]

Hijack alert, sorry fellas...

Why is it that if you mention putting a diesel in a Jeep (or in this case, a Jeep on a diesel) people jump in and recommend frame boxing, etc., but if you mention hot-rodding a 401 to put out comparable torque (and much more horsepower) everybody just gives you the "rock on" emoticon?

Just askin'.

[imiceman44]

Sweet conversion...But, I'm just curious. Have you taken that heavy front end off road into some serious mud?
Being the owner of a Dodge CTD 4x4, I know that the engine weighs in excess of 1200 Lbs.
In fact, while off road just goofing off, I got stuck going thru a mud hole...Ok, a big mud hole. Granted, my axles are stock and open. But, it wasn't deep enough to get stuck. My old J10 wouldn't have gotten stuck. Yet, my CTD sank deep in the mud up front.
Guys, unless you have an ARB locker in the front D60 and at least a LSD in the rear, that 5.9 6BT is not a good conversion for off road use.
Been there, done that.
It is a great conversion for a FSJ that tows heavy loads. Just don't take it off road and expect it to glide thru those mud puddles...It's just too heavy.

I bought a K5 blazer that had a 5.9 TD put in it, it still had stock 1/2 ton axles but a few added leaves on the springs to support the weight, I put lockers on it and some 35"x12.5" tires and wheeld it for years until the frame broke a few places, the weight in the front was actually great for the uphill climbing, I took some hill that where 40 degrees, no one could climb as high as I did except the purpose built buggies with long wheel base and really low body for that type of terrain, and they only did it with speed, I crawled it.
The one thing I couldn't do well was the snow, I still did fine but when I hit powder, no matter what I did I couldn't get enough floatation, I had to just keep the momentum going and hope I don't get stuck.
The frame however didn't like the vibration and the torque, so it had cracks all over the first 5 feet of the front.
Now I have a crew cab frame I am working on shortening to put my engine in and maybe make a stretched blazer.
Or if I don't sell my waggy use that on the frame.

[gotmike]

i figured i'd copy this in from another post... just to keep it all in one thread

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/dualbatteries001.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/dualbatteries002.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/dualbatteries003.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/dualbatteries004.jpg

i still have to fabricate some battery holders before it hits the trail... and mounting the battery disconnects should be easy to wire in with the eyelets on my battery cables...

there is one main cable running to the starter from the main battery (LH battery)... and then connected to the starter lug i ran another line off to power things up front and tie into the alternator charge line, and then i ran one line from the main positive terminal to the auxilary positive battery terminal, and a line from there to the other side of the front with much smaller wire (8 gauge) to power my fan and my OBA compressor clutch... that way it will draw charge through both batteries and keep both charged... when i get my disconnects i will take the main cable to the first disconnect and a jumper from there to the second disconnect... and then from the second contact on each to each independant battery...

each battery has its own ground bolted to the floor, and then from the under side of the floor to the frame... good grounding is always important...

[gotmike]

i'll be building covers into the battery trays that will cover them on the in-cab side... with metal instead of cardboard panels, but leave the in fender side open via a vent hole... so if they do vent they'll vent into the fender and out one of the many holes there bear in mind, cars such as jaguars and other luxury cars keep the battery under the back seat... beside that i don't have a rear window... just a canvas/plastic snap on flap

the cover will also protect them from something loose in the rear touching terminals and shorting anything out... since i keep tools and recovery devices back there...

i'm also open to other suggestions... two sets of eyes on something are better than one...

[gotmike]

this is kindof the idea i have for my battery trayshttp://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/batteryholder-1.jpg

the side rails on the top won't actually touch the battery... don't want them to accidentally touch the terminals... the front will have a catch on it that tightens the whole thing down... and then probably a piece of intertube rubber across the top to insulate things... the whole top and front will be one piece that will pivot up to get the battery out if i need...the back rails will extend up to just under the window to make everything really secure... i'll be putting quick connect points front and rear for a winch and/or jumper cables... it's going to be more of a recovery vehicle than anything else... i have a lot of friends who do some serious wheeling... and they usually get stuck...

[loganvilledude]

Well Mike I have to admit after searching through these threads for a diesel conversion you're s seems like the one I would like to tackle. Good job:thumbsup:.

What does the wheel base measure out at on the '90's" model standard cab 4x4 Dodge truck?

Thanks,

Mike

[gotmike]

the wheel base on mine (single cab long box) was still 20 some inches too long... but there is a nice straight section just behind the cab where you can shorten the frame without too many problems... it is right between two cross-members... it pretty much sticks the cross members right up against each other... helps minimize the lateral flex on the frame so it isn't as weak as it could be if you cut it elsewhere... there are several ways to cut the frame... i cut mine at a diagonal... easiest way to get it to match up after the cut... but you have to fish-plate the welded area... so far i've beat it up pretty good and haven't gotten any cracks at all... one thing i did to help out too was to make some step/rock sliders that bolt onto the frame and help with supporting the length of the frame under the passenger area... plus mine's a little tall so the bars help to get in the thing...

[gotmike]

got me a PTO winch to mount up front now... i found an old Koenig winch from the front of a bronco that will fit perfectly in between the frame rails on my front end... and its set up for the shaft to be on the passenger side and everything... i figured i can't beat it for $100 bucks... i think it's missing the little brake piece... but i'm thinking that i can figure out a better way to set up a brake on it anyway...

[MAPit]

what are the down sides to going diesel? besides cost and wight?

[gotmike]

had a guy asking about this build again... so i'm bringing it to the top...


as for the down side??? none... starts as well in the cold (with the cummins) easier to maintain/repair... easier to wire/diagnose wiring issues... better fuel economy... i'd much rather have a diesel in my rig than a gasser any day... if i had the time and money i'd upgrade my wife's jimmy to a 4bt... but they're getting pricey...

[gotmike]

throwing up some new pic's got some new lights and a pretty nice roof rack...

before...
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/072009_195700.jpg

after...

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/090609_161000.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/090609_161001.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/090609_161100-1.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/090609_163900.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/090609_163901.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/090609_165100.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/090609_164000.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/090509_193000.jpg

[Elliott]

Owe, my eyes, my eyes.... :thumbsup:

[gotmike]

yeah that's the only spot i could stand without overlighting my little camera...and i've got a 250 watt aircraft landing light that fit's in a 6" housing to mount as a spotlight just below the windshield on the drivers side...

[jaber]

I like that rack. :thumbsup:The whole thing is awesome...

[gotmike]

i added in some more details about the swap itself back in the first pages... fyi...

[Brizio]

That thing is a UFO!!!

[AMC-J/20]

Wow shockingly impressive ! :fsj: 6BT finally, the 4BT is a fine unit but its been done to death;)

Very nice :thumbsup:

Mike

[Bill Moore]

WTG Mike! you have to love the 5.9 in anything with a stick. how much did you have to adjust the wheelbase for the Cherokee? Dana 60 up front?

[gotmike]

i took out just over 2 feet of frame... kept the dodge axles, but eventually i shattered the pinion in the rear axle... so i upgraded from a weak dana 70 to a dana 70 HD... which is pretty much the same except for the bearings (which caused the whole thing anyway)

[AMC-J/20]

Looks to be a fine project . . .

i kinda like it in a poetic justice sort of way Dodge killed off the Full sized jeep's to survive, now a dodge is killed off to keep a Full sized Jeep alive :thumbsup:

Not that i ever much cared for Dodge's anyhow. . .;)

Mike

[gotmike]

Looks to be a fine project . . .

i kinda like it in a poetic justice sort of way Dodge killed off the Full sized jeep's to survive, now a dodge is killed off to keep a Full sized Jeep alive :thumbsup:

i like it... never quite thought of it that way...

[Hankrod]

I really like my turbocharged 401, but my hat is off to you guys with the 6bt's! If time, money, and willpower are ever provided to me I think - I will build one someday. Hankrod

[AMC-J/20]

I call's em as i see's em ;)

Mike

[AMC-J/20]

help me here i got lost in the print, you have an FSJ on top of a dodge truck ?

or

You have a dodge truck power plant inside of a FSJ ?

:confused: I might consider such a project only with a J/20 . . .

Mike

[gotmike]

it's a frankenstein of a little bit of both... mainly it's a FSJ on top of a dodge truck platform...

[AMC-J/20]

So if i were to build such a truck with a J/20 i would have to have a dodge rolling chassie ?

or

would the engine/trans stuff into the J/20 chassie ?

Mike

[gotmike]

it would fit in a j/20 frame/chassis... though it might take a bit of work... it would be easier to use a dodge rolling drivetrain... but it's up to you and your fabrication skills...

[AMC-J/20]

Well I think its within my skill level, just not so sure its within my income bracket.

Buying a whole truck with a usable chassie is $4,000-$6,000.

Good solid J20 $3,000-$5,000 so I'm told, From what I've seen there $6,000-$8,000.

So I'd have to buy a $5,000 truck and $7,000 truck and cut them up n weld them together...

Seem a bit steep for my wallet, thanks for the heads up at least I know it can be done.

Don't sound like its for me tho...

Mike

[The PIG Smith]

Well I think its within my skill level, just not so sure its within my income bracket.

Buying a whole truck with a usable chassie is $4,000-$6,000.

Good solid J20 $3,000-$5,000 so I'm told, From what I've seen there $6,000-$8,000.

So I'd have to buy a $5,000 truck and $7,000 truck and cut them up n weld them together...

Seem a bit steep for my wallet, thanks for the heads up at least I know it can be done.

Don't sound like its for me tho...

Mike This is exactly the reason I have not gone down the path of the Cummins swap...too expensive for what I can find locally.
So, I bought my Diesel van for next to nothing to use as a donor.
It was such good shape, I just started using it.
It's 6.2L runs so well, I dunno if I can bring myself to slice it up.
Maybe some day, I've find that cheap Cummins project.

[gotmike]

i paid $6000 for my truck and drove it for 3 years... then i converted it... but i've seen a couple trucks (www.cumminsforum.com (http://www.cumminsforum.com)) go for 500 to 1000 with a bit of body damage... it's all about luck and timing... i've seen a couple of decent j trucks come across in non-running condition for under a grand as well... so it might be possible with some extra work...

[AMC-J/20]

I think I'm just going to stick with gas power . . .

Less maintenance, plugging in no blending fuel ect and so along . . .

Mike

[gotmike]

not trying to convince you one way or the other... but the only maintenance i have to deal with is changing the oil and the fuel filter... no spark plug... the air filter is cleanable... i may eventually need to put a new belt on it... but no spark plugs... no vacuum hoses, plug wires/cap/rotor... there are only two reasons it doesn't start... loss of battery power or no fuel... i plug it in just because it's easier on the engine... but when i lived in an apartment i was never able to plug it in... and it got to -40 one day... it still fired... though it took a while... i've never needed to blend my fuel... once i switched to a diesel i never looked back...

[AMC-J/20]

:rolleyes: Alright alright . . . I'll do it !:thumbsup: . . . my wallet just went :eek: . . .

Ok so i had intended this as collector ish Toy/Tow rig together right so, and rust free solid J/20 is what i want but its going to cost some money and take some time to find a whole truck . . . :(

Try this on for sized once, I buy a 90'-93' Ram350HD/Ram3500HD Dually 4x4 Cummins diesel manual transmission the first gen square bodied one ? . . .

If i gotta finance it i can, then all i do is swap Cab's the i put a J-10-30 gladiator ECT Pickup truck cab on it, rustfree cab cheaper then whole truck right ? plus increasing my options from 74'-76' J/20 to any J-truck 1963-1988 . . . I set the Jeep cab on the Dodge chassie, then replace the box with a nice diamond plate flat bed, unless the dodge already has a flat bed, then i swap on my Blessed 19.5's of which by the way duel rims are cheaper n more plentiful lots more whees to choose from n stealies can be had cheap too and shazzam, Quick spring upgrade and i have myself a J/50 4X4 Dually Diesel ! ?

then its basically just a cab n clip swap toss on some wheels n tire's project complete !


Mike

[gotmike]

sounds like my dream truck... as long as it's got a brow...

[AMC-J/20]

What's this brow deal you are referring to ?

EDIT:
Sorry i seem to have taken over your thread heres my thread:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?p=1033363#post1033363


Mike

[snoopy]

[quote=AMC-J/20]What's this brow deal you are referring to ?

The way god intended for Jeeps to be made.

[snoopy]

Looks like a couple of guys are doing 6BT swaps over on the M715zone. This one looks like the least headache to me. I've spent some time up in the dana frame plant in Ky, the metal in newer frames is mucho better. They're designed with computers that consider torsional dynamics and stuff.

[snoopy]

Hope this adds and answers some questions. http://www.m715zone.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11231

[gotmike]

got some new pics... just kindof poser shots... but they were some of the only pics we took of the entire day...

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/flexonrock1.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/flexonrock2.jpg

[gotmike]

got some work done on the chero today... installed a trailer plug finally
i think this setup could even work with a window in the back...
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/050200_201500.jpg
seems nice and out of the way... no chance of tearing it up on the trails
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/050200_201501.jpg

there were some slot's built in just past where the spring rods attach that when bored out a bit allow the wire through rather nicely... a grommet to keep from cutting the wire at all and some grease to ease assembly
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/050200_201700.jpg

and while i was down there i cleaned up all my wires... put the taillight wires in the box along with the trailer plug wires so that i can modify things easily...
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/050200_201701.jpg

bolted the box to the frame and it's tucked up out of the way quite nicely i figure on building a gaurd for it to keep from rocks busting the box but all in all it was a nice install

[gotmike]

backup lights mounted to the roof rack

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/060100_201902.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/060100_202000.jpg

put on some speaker grilles
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/052800_165001.jpg

and mounted my battery switch in the old speaker bracket
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/060100_201900.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/060100_201901.jpg
sorry for the dark pic's
here's the switch all alone
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/110709_215700-1.jpg

now i just need to finish wiring in the backup lights... they will be hooked to the reverse lights circuit and will also be switchable... for those dark nights when i'm working on something behind the rig...

[seamus]

Well I think its within my skill level, just not so sure its within my income bracket.

Buying a whole truck with a usable chassie is $4,000-$6,000.

Good solid J20 $3,000-$5,000 so I'm told, From what I've seen there $6,000-$8,000.

So I'd have to buy a $5,000 truck and $7,000 truck and cut them up n weld them together...

Seem a bit steep for my wallet, thanks for the heads up at least I know it can be done.

Don't sound like its for me tho...





Mike


You are forgetting one thing, selling the parts you don't need. I bought my 90 Dodge 3500 for 1000.00 (slight front end impact) Sold the box-liner and doors as well as a few other parts and now I'm into the dodge for 400.00.

I bought the cherokee for 1400.00 reasonable body, good drive train. Sold the engine for 250, tranny for 200, dana 44 front for 300, amc 20 rear for 100. and 100 fro the frame. When it was all said and done I was into the whole project for for 600.00

[gotmike]

and nothing beats being able to tow without looking back... or wondering if i can make that hill... http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/061300_171200.jpg

[FSJeeper]

I know you lost your PICS of the swap, but can you remember any interesting details about how much difference there was between the frames and how did you do the body mounts?

[Mikel]

How does it tow with that wheelbase and the lift? Trailer brakes?


and nothing beats being able to tow without looking back... or wondering if i can make that hill... http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/061300_171200.jpg

[gotmike]

I know you lost your PICS of the swap, but can you remember any interesting details about how much difference there was between the frames and how did you do the body mounts?

they were pretty close to the same width... i used some 2.5" channel and notched the "legs" so that i could bend it over 90 degrees and just weld the notched edges together... thus keeping most of the structural integrity... then lined them up front to back with where i wanted the body and welded them on... then i removed the body and centered the width of the body mounting holes across the top's of the new body mounts and then drilled my holes...


as for towing... if i had a taller trailer it would be much easier... but it pulled like a dream... i still need to hook up a brake controller... but with my junction box and everything i already have it should be pretty easy...

this is my next build after my hand heals up...
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/10inchdrophitch.jpg

[FSJeeper]

If you could take PICS of your body mounts that would be great. Could you have gone with less lift? How much total lift did you get? I am considering doing this but I do not want any, or very body lift.

I have a Wagoneer with a 92 Donor truck with low miles and a Crewcab M715 project on the back burner with either a Dodge crewcab chassis or a Chevy. I think the Dodge willl be more practical.

[smogdredd]

As I am thinking about a Cummins 6BT Conversation (very long term project) I am concerned about my Jeep Frame and have some questions.
When you say the Dodge Frame is heavier than the Jeep frame, I am assuming that that you are comparing
a Jeep Cherokee/Wagoneer style frame to a Dodge 3/4 ton pickup truck frame.

I am considering a Cummins 6BT in a J truck.
So, would like to think a 3/4 ton Jeep frame is about the same strength as a 3/4 ton Dodge frame.

There has been some discussion on this forum in the past that if a person uses a Jeep Frame for a 6BT swap,
that some reinforcing of the frame is required (boxing?)
But, I will assume the folks that report this modification requirement is speaking about the 1/2 ton rated Cherokee/Wagoneer frame and not the J Truck frame.

I am writing to ask that you elaborate on the why you felt you needed to use the Dodge frame.
What does the Dodge frame provide?
Deeper frame rails?
Thicker material?
Stronger steel?

If you convince me that a Dodge Frame is the way to go, would a frame from a Dodge 2500 gasser be the same as a powered be a CTD?When I saw this project My first thaught was weight. The Dog frame is the only way to manage the weight and tourque. I'm sure a Jeep frame could be beefed up but without the proper jig all that welding would turn it into a pretzel. It would also take a week after it was stripped. If You want to improve on this idea notch the firewall and lift the body to adress the length issue.

[gotmike]

If you could take PICS of your body mounts that would be great. Could you have gone with less lift? How much total lift did you get? I am considering doing this but I do not want any, or very body lift.

I have a Wagoneer with a 92 Donor truck with low miles and a Crewcab M715 project on the back burner with either a Dodge crewcab chassis or a Chevy. I think the Dodge willl be more practical.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/100_3229.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/100_3230.jpg

[gotmike]

thought i'd throw up some pics od my jeep lit up... the top lights only come on in reverse right now... but i'm going to put a jumper in w/ a switch when my hand heals...
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/100_3223.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/100_3224.jpg

took my pintle hitch apart and cleaned it up inside and out... then i painted it and re-assembled it... it's all nice and purdy now...
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/100_3205.jpg

[gotmike]

wanted to show my LED light install as well...

first i drilled three holes in the taillight housing with the biggest hole saw that would fit...
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/100_3208.jpg

then i used some cardboard to make a pattern for the plate that would replace my taillight lense... and cut the plate to fit...
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/100_3209.jpg

then i painted up the plate... bolted it in place... and installed the lenses and grommets...

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/100_3210.jpg

just running lights
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/100_3212.jpg

brake lights
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/100_3213.jpg

still visable clearly from an angle as well...
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/100_3214.jpg

[gotmike]

and i got some help installing my back seat finally...
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/100_3231.jpg
fits like a glove... and it can adjust forward if need be...
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/100_3232.jpg

it does sit a bit higher... but I can sit back there comfortably...
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff209/mikehaid/cherokee%20project/100_3233.jpg

i'm still not sure exactly what it came out of... i believe it's a ford expedition back seat... but with the quick release still under it it was way too high... so i bolted it directly to the floor instead w/ a 3/16" thick plate...

[jeepjseries]

Looks great there, only wish i could install a Cummins in my Cherokee.

[gotmike]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTHa4OOeKRY

just a video from the other weekend...

[gotmike]

here are some newer pic's
installed a winch in the front bumper...
cleaned up and re-supported the front clip first... when i cut out for my radiator i was running really short on time so i hand plaz'd it out and weakend the structure a bit... so i reinforced the bottom edge with some rectangular tubing to give it all a bit more rigidity...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/524485_3869479813728_1180566966_3662153_2029093605 _n.jpg

then i welded in a piece of 3/8" plate between the bumper mounting channels to give me a good solid piece to mount the winch to..
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/380204_3869482373792_1180566966_3662154_1941682000 _n.jpg

back together waiting for another day to install the winch

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/523823_3869521374767_1244152664_n.jpg

winch all mounted up... wasn't much to it... drill four holes and bolt it down... going to build my own fairlead setup... the one that came with it seemed a bit narrow for the size of the drum on the winch...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/385686_3872657653172_87770451_n.jpg

she looks good on there...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/549247_3872660613246_1180566966_3663951_999892963_ n.jpg

[Resbum]

Nice rig. Thanks for updating the thread.

[gotmike]

Since i went hunting last year and brought back pictures, my wife wants to come with this year... so we bought a camper...

https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/528232_4141354450424_425205183_n.jpg

$500... it needs some work... but it was well worth the money... it's a '82 30' camper that sleep's 7... i get some real funny looks passing people pulling hills... lol...

[Resbum]

:thumbsup: Niiiiiiiice!!!!!

[Iceman0502]

to fit the heater element in behind the turbo downpipe i had to modify the stock housing and put the heater core directly against the firewall... then i used some galvanized sheet metal and made a new cover to direct the air from the factory fan, through the core, and then into the factory heater ducting...

Mike, Can you post a picture of your modified heater box? I was thinking of doing something similar by making a box that houses the stock heater core and a heater valve in the hose. The box will always flow air through the heater core and I was thinking that the heater valve would control the temperature by reducing the amount of water going to the heater core. I'm not sure this will work, but looking for ideas other than buying a underdash heater.

Thanks